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cruzer1

2021 NFL Draft...

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

the 4th?  when he led the league in 4th quarter comeback wins a few years ago?

Buddah, who is your avatar?

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2 hours ago, jb84 said:

Buddah, who is your avatar?

my oldest daughter.

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37 minutes ago, Buddha said:

my oldest daughter.

Very cute! I have only one daughter and 2 cute grand kids.

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On 1/8/2021 at 4:25 PM, Hongbit said:

I like Mac but we’ve had 12 years of a QB with limited mobility that can’t use his feet to make up for the lack of a good OL and run game.    I think this is a must have quality for the next Lions QB. 

I will always take the QB with the better arm, feet can only get you so far. Stafford has good feel for the pocket, and moves well, even in week 17 when he was injured. I'll take him any day.

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i see the league is rife with rumors about the dolphins looking to trade tua and two first rounders for deshaun watson.  but houston has no interest in tua...

huh.  you'd think houston would be the one to trade multiple first round picks for the next nfl superstar qb...

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9 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

What if Mike Tomlin becomes available?  

 

he won't.

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3 hours ago, cruzer1 said:

I will always take the QB with the better arm, feet can only get you so far. Stafford has good feel for the pocket, and moves well, even in week 17 when he was injured. I'll take him any day.

My QB tool ranking:

Field reading.

Throwing accuracy

Release quickness

Arm Strength

Mobility

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40 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

My QB tool ranking:

Field reading.

Throwing accuracy

Release quickness

Arm Strength

Mobility

Interesting... thinking about your post... % requirements popped up in my head, and changed your order a bit (for me)... So:

My QB tool ranking:

Field reading - 99% - a must have. Unable to read the field = QB failure.

Throwing accuracy - 90% - must have this as well... but a little inaccuracy doesn't kill the QB. Maybe a few passes, or leads a WR into some hits... so I like an accurate QB, say at least 65% completion and a minimum of errant passes... but this means not as critical as reading the field.

Arm Strength - 85% - a popgun arm means a QB is extremely limited. Probably nothing but a clipboard holder/ backup. But arm strength is a variable need depending on scheme, so a little lower than accuracy. Still, inability to go downfield is a deal-killer for a starting QB, at least in my book. This and accuracy are neck-and-neck, but I give accuracy the nod.

Release quickness - 60% - I don't see this as a critical item. I believe most QB's will have an average release time, with a few exceptionally fast, or slow. A slow release, if everything else is fine, doesn't seem a like a deal-killer to me. Maybe problematic on a few plays...

Mobility - 40% - not a critical need. I mean, at least have some maneuverability in the pocket. But even very stiff QB's can still make it in the NFL with everything else in place. On the flip side, extra mobility is a huge bonus, as long as the other issues above are good.

 

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3 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

Arm Strength - 85% - a popgun arm means a QB is extremely limited. Probably nothing but a clipboard holder/ backup. But arm strength is a variable need depending on scheme, so a little lower than accuracy. Still, inability to go downfield is a deal-killer for a starting QB, at least in my book. This and accuracy are neck-and-neck, but I give accuracy the nod.

Release quickness - 60% - I don't see this as a critical item. I believe most QB's will have an average release time, with a few exceptionally fast, or slow. A slow release, if everything else is fine, doesn't seem a like a deal-killer to me. Maybe problematic on a few plays...

one second thought, I might combine these into a measure like a catcher's pop time. What I would want - at least against zone defenses, is the total time between when QB locks in on his receiver and the ball gets there, because that is what a zone defender has to work with. This is Stafford's best skill, was Marino's as well IIRC

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10 hours ago, Buddha said:

i see the league is rife with rumors about the dolphins looking to trade tua and two first rounders for deshaun watson.  but houston has no interest in tua...

huh.  you'd think houston would be the one to trade multiple first round picks for the next nfl superstar qb...

I wouldn't be interested either. Tua's not that good.

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9 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

My QB tool ranking:

Field reading.

Throwing accuracy

Release quickness

Arm Strength

Mobility

Arm strength helps you fit balls into tighter windows. Kellen Moore was very accurate, and could read the field very well; but his lack of arm strength was his undoing.

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12 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

Arm strength helps you fit balls into tighter windows. Kellen Moore was very accurate, and could read the field very well; but his lack of arm strength was his undoing.

Ideally you would have both but if I would have to choose I would take accuracy over arm strength every day of the week. 

 

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43 minutes ago, cruzer1 said:

I wouldn't be interested either. Tua's not that good.

no ****.  he looked bad most of the year.  he's young, so he might get better, but the arm strength isnt likely to get better.

herbert has looked much better this year.

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Josh Allen was garbage his first year in the league and is now the one of the best QB's. I think criticizing Tua as not good is premature.

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Smith won’t be available at 7.  Chase will be in that scenario.

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Devonta freaking Smith ya'll. This draft is absolutely loaded with high end offensive talent.

I know the Lions have huge defensive needs but I'm not passing up on Chase or Smith if they drop to 7. Parsons might be the lone exception. Can you imagine one of those stud receivers lined up alongside Golladay (I'm assuming he'll be signed) with Hockenson in the middle and Swift running the ball? Screw defense, just outscore everybody.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Josh Allen was garbage his first year in the league and is now the one of the best QB's. I think criticizing Tua as not good is premature.

He also just came off of a really serious hip injury going through a Covid ravaged camp that hurt a lot of young players. I'm not huge on Tua's upside but this season was always going to be a write off for him, it's a minor miracle that he played at all this season.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Josh Allen was garbage his first year in the league and is now the one of the best QB's. I think criticizing Tua as not good is premature.

Writing off Tua as premature would certainly dampen your "Stafford sucks we should have replaced him with this QB who also sucks, but is younger" vibe.

But yes, it is too early to write Tua off.  However, even you have to admit that he sucked this year and probably was the reason the Dolphins didn't make the playoffs.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Josh Allen was garbage his first year in the league and is now the one of the best QB's. I think criticizing Tua as not good is premature.

For every Josh Allen there are many more non-Josh Allens.  I think it's fair to be skeptical of Tua given who he had to throw to at Alabama.  The NFL is a much tougher league.  He's going to have to improve and it makes no sense to allow him to tank the season before he was ready to contribute.  He was clearly less prepared for the NFL than Justin Herbert.  Perhaps he will progress and be better.

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58 minutes ago, sagnam said:

For every Josh Allen there are many more non-Josh Allens.  I think it's fair to be skeptical of Tua given who he had to throw to at Alabama.  The NFL is a much tougher league.  He's going to have to improve and it makes no sense to allow him to tank the season before he was ready to contribute.  He was clearly less prepared for the NFL than Justin Herbert.  Perhaps he will progress and be better.

i wouldnt say he was less prepared than herbert, i would say he's not as talented as herbert.

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3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Josh Allen was garbage his first year in the league and is now the one of the best QB's. I think criticizing Tua as not good is premature.

There's no comparison with regards to talent.

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We are comparing products of Wyoming and Alabama. I would expect one of those schools to produce dang near NFL ready players and one of them to produce players who need a year or two of development and coaching. Tua's injury is a bit of a wildcard, but I agree with sagnam that most often a player who sucks in his first year will not take a major jump in his 3rd.

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17 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

We are comparing products of Wyoming and Alabama. I would expect one of those schools to produce dang near NFL ready players and one of them to produce players who need a year or two of development and coaching. Tua's injury is a bit of a wildcard, but I agree with sagnam that most often a player who sucks in his first year will not take a major jump in his 3rd.

I guess the most severe outlier of a late developing QB I can think of is Jim Plunkett, who was the 1st overall pick after 3 yrs experience at your own alma mater, a top program at the time, but couldn't stop throwing the ball to the wrong team until he landed in Oakland at the age of 30.

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Stafford looked like a bust after two seasons. The difference between Stafford and Tua is that Stafford has arm talent. 

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