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Week 4 Saints at Lions Sunday 1pm

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I think about last year's draft..............the 2nd Round Pick.....Tavai.    

ESPN didn't even have a graphic for him.   The announcers had no idea who he was.   HE WASN'T EVEN IN THE FIRST-PICK.COM GAME !  

Teddy Lehman all over again.  

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houston fired its white coach who just won 4 division titles in 5 years and replaced him with a black 73 year old retread who has lost twice as many games as he has won.

like jim caldwell, sometimes coaches get fired for not being the right coach at the right time and not because of the color of their skin.  the lions didnt fire caldwell because he was black, they fired him because he wasnt a great head coach and management wanted a new voice that was more in line with management's idea of how to run a football team.

if anything, lions ownership let caldwell stay on too long.  they fired mayhew and lewand halfway through the season but let caldwell stay.  and then let him stay another year after that.  both of which resulted in mediocre seasons bailed out by his star qb.

remember the lions being 8-6 and only needing a victory over lowly cincinnati to get to the playoffs?  yeah, guess what they did?  it wasnt win.  caldwell deserved to go at the time.  the problem is what replaced him and the players quinn has put on the roster.

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20 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

There's no doubt that this team is lacking talent compared to the rest of the league so Patricia does have a bit of an out there but with that said good coaches maximize and get the best out the talent they have and Im not so sure Patricia has done that.  In fact I know he hasn't. 

These are Patricia players, players drafted and signed to fit his ridiculous scheme, so he deserves no out whatsoever for the mess they're in. I wouldn't say that a 10-26 record matches their talent either and to be honest, the talent gap from top to bottom in the NFL is pretty minimal just like all Salary Cap sports, so coaching is crucial in the NFL to put those players in a position to succeed and Patricia has failed miserably in every aspect.

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Bill O'Brien should have been fired for trading a top 3 WR in the league for an aging RB with bad knees. O'Brien got absolutely fleeced in the Hopkins/Johnson trade.

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8 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Bill O'Brien should have been fired for trading a top 3 WR in the league for an aging RB with bad knees. O'Brien got absolutely fleeced in the Hopkins/Johnson trade.

he should never have been allowed to be gm and head coach.  he was fine as a head coach but made so many horrible decisions as a gm that the team is basically hamstrung for the next few years.

they have no first or second round picks coming up because of the tunsil trade with miami and they are paying over market salaries to players o'brien gave extensions to, which hurts their cap.

and giving away one of the best receivers in football for a washed up running back was malpractice.

but as a COACH?  he was just fine.  unlike jim caldwell, he actually won things.

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DId O'Brien really "win things"? He had a mediocre record in a bad division with a lot of talent and 2 playoff wins against a Raiders team without their starting QB and the Bills in a game that the Bills gave away. I never understood the allure of this guy.

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1 hour ago, NYLion said:

DId O'Brien really "win things"? He had a mediocre record in a bad division with a lot of talent and 2 playoff wins against a Raiders team without their starting QB and the Bills in a game that the Bills gave away. I never understood the allure of this guy.

he won 4 division titles.  thats something.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

but as a COACH?  he was just fine.  unlike jim caldwell, he actually won things.

Would you really want O'Brien here if a new GM, not Quinn, was looking at him as a Head Coach?

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15 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Would you really want O'Brien here if a new GM, not Quinn, was looking at him as a Head Coach?

no.  but that doesnt mean i dont think he did a bad job as a head coach.  id be more worried about his backstabbing power play to get the gm job than his coaching.

i think he's a better coach than matt patricia, however low a bar that may be.

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Exactly how bad does Shelia Ford have to see this get before she makes a change? If 1-3 and 10-24-1 overall isn't enough where does it have to go? Do we actually have to finish the season 3-13 or something insanely bad for a move to be made? Does Patricia get the right to shoot someone on Woodward Ave and still keep his job? Will he be that teflon?

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Even though I want them both fired I don't see a ton of benefit in doing so during the season.  I mean GM's rarely make any major moves this time of year and any interim coach isn't likely going to be the long term answer so maybe she's just going to allow them to finish out the year. 

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2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Exactly how bad does Shelia Ford have to see this get before she makes a change? If 1-3 and 10-24-1 overall isn't enough where does it have to go? Do we actually have to finish the season 3-13 or something insanely bad for a move to be made? Does Patricia get the right to shoot someone on Woodward Ave and still keep his job? Will he be that teflon?

i dont see any way he gets fired now.  

they have some easier games coming up.  yes, i know, they may still lose them, but he's not going anywhere for the forseeable future.  the hope of him getting canned left when they beat arizona.

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jaguars and falcons are their next two games.  and they have the artists formerly known as the redskins, and the texans on the horizon.

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6 hours ago, Buddha said:

i dont see any way he gets fired now.  

they have some easier games coming up.  yes, i know, they may still lose them, but he's not going anywhere for the forseeable future.  the hope of him getting canned left when they beat arizona.

and what is the next move anyway? They went to the experts for advice and it's come up snake eyes, so what is the family's Plan B? Dart board? They still don't have anyone who knows anything about running a sports franchise making the hiring decision for new team management. The probability of success remains no better than random chance for the next go round. As long as the Lions remain the toy of a stupid rich family instead of the avocation of someone with a passion for football who happened to hit it big enough to buy a team, the odds are against Lions' fans.

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4 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

and what is the next move anyway? They went to the experts for advice and it's come up snake eyes, so what is the family's Plan B? Dart board? They still don't have anyone who knows anything about running a sports franchise making the hiring decision for new team management. The probability of success remains no better than random chance for the next go round. As long as the Lions remain the toy of stupid rich family instead of the avocation of someone with a passion for football who happened to hit it big enough to buy a team, the odds are against Lions' fans.

sheila is our only hope.

 

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On 10/6/2020 at 7:57 AM, Motor City Sonics said:

I think about last year's draft..............the 2nd Round Pick.....Tavai.    

ESPN didn't even have a graphic for him.   The announcers had no idea who he was.   HE WASN'T EVEN IN THE FIRST-PICK.COM GAME !  

Teddy Lehman all over again.  

Yeah I get that every team's rankings are different and obviously the TV guys ratings aren't the be all end all but part of being a good drafter is trying to think how the competition is going to draft.   

Not trying to compare fantasy football drafting to the real thing, obviously I know it is different but it has the same basic principles.  If there is a player in the 2nd round that I really like and I think is going to do well I don't necessarily just draft him there.  If he is mocked to go in the 5th or 6th round I'm going to take my chance and wait atleast a round to draft that player even if I personally feel he may be worthy of the 2nd round.  It's all about value and maximizing all your picks.  

Same with the NFL, if you see a player that hasn't been showcased much and according to every other ranking you have access to is graded as a late 3rd or 4th round pick you have to ask yourself if it is worth reaching for or if you should take somebody now that will certainly not be able later and see what happens.

Basically you need to not only draft based off of your personal board but also based on how you feel other team's boards look as well.  That is what the good teams do,  they "read the room" the best they can and I'm not so sure the Lions do that.   They have the mindset that just cause they see something they love about a particular player(IE Tabor and Tavai) that every other team does and that simply isn't the case.  

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I'd like to ask Bob Quinn some questions about his job with the Patriots like.......
 
Q: What is Bill Belichick's favorite brand of coffee?
Q: How many cups does Bill Belichick drink a day?
Q: How does Bill take his coffee?
 
 

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3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah I get that every team's rankings are different and obviously the TV guys ratings aren't the be all end all but part of being a good drafter is trying to think how the competition is going to draft.   

 

I get that...........but they know 6 or 7 rounds worth of players and they had NOTHING to say about this guy.  They had no highlights, they had no TITLE CARD of him to show on the screen.   I mean, come on.   

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On 10/5/2020 at 8:43 PM, Sports_Freak said:

When's it going to be our turn to see some success? Nothing major, just a few deep runs into the playoffs with maybe one Championship.

1935...

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On 10/6/2020 at 1:45 PM, Sports_Freak said:

Is Patricia fired yet? If not, why? Wait until the end of the season?

I think we're all of the camp that Quinn-Patricia are locked in with each other at this point, yeah?  I mean, unless Quinn steps up and says: "I was wrong to hire Patricia, I'm sorry... but I need to fire him." -- and I just don't see that happening.  When Patricia goes, so goes Quinn.

So, what's the advantage of firing them mid-season?  I don't see a problem with firing a coach mid-season if the GM is likely to stay on.  Then you can do some things like:

  • Evaluate an intern HC (usually one of the coordinators) and see if he might be a viable candidate.
  • See if players respond differently to a different voice.
  • Determine if quality of play changes under a different scheme or if a player still stinks until both options.
  • Let the GM start doing some back-channel discussion with prospective HCs (which of course never happens in real life because it's against NFL rules).

But in a situation where the GM is almost certainly gone as well you don't get some of these same benefits... or rather, you could get them, but the observations of the results would not be seen by the new GM (unless that GM came from within the system). 

You could start some back-channel discussion with prospective GMs I guess... so that would be one advantage... but I don't know how big an advantage that would be.

TL;DR: I don't see any real benefit to firing Patricia and Quinn now vs. at the end of the year.

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hopefully they have already begun the process of making back channel inquiries into potential replacements.

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On 10/5/2020 at 5:51 PM, Jason_R said:

I’ve never had faith in it. I never wanted him hired. I wanted Vrabel. I was right. 

Although Vrabel qualifiies as having been a Patriot, he doesn't meet the requirement of being a rocket scientist.  Rumor has it that he also tolerates slouching at his press conferences.  The Lions are uncompromising in their standards, and he just doesn't make the cut.  

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2 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

Although Vrabel qualifiies as having been a Patriot, he doesn't meet the requirement of being a rocket scientist.  Rumor has it that he also tolerates slouching at his press conferences.  The Lions are uncompromising in their standards, and he just doesn't make the cut.  

It was clear to me at the start that Quinn and Patricia were of one mind on building a roster. 

But neither of them has actual playing experience, and neither of them has any pro experience outside of Belichick. 

Finally, neither of them has anything about them that signals “leader of men.” 

I used the word “charisma” to describe that (saying Vrabel had it and Patricia didn’t), and some of the geniuses who post here thought that was ridiculous. They thought that the rocket scientist was the right guy for the job. I wonder if they still think that. 

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7 hours ago, RedRamage said:

I think we're all of the camp that Quinn-Patricia are locked in with each other at this point, yeah?  I mean, unless Quinn steps up and says: "I was wrong to hire Patricia, I'm sorry... but I need to fire him." -- and I just don't see that happening.  When Patricia goes, so goes Quinn.

So, what's the advantage of firing them mid-season?  I don't see a problem with firing a coach mid-season if the GM is likely to stay on.  Then you can do some things like:

  • Evaluate an intern HC (usually one of the coordinators) and see if he might be a viable candidate.
  • See if players respond differently to a different voice.
  • Determine if quality of play changes under a different scheme or if a player still stinks until both options.
  • Let the GM start doing some back-channel discussion with prospective HCs (which of course never happens in real life because it's against NFL rules).

But in a situation where the GM is almost certainly gone as well you don't get some of these same benefits... or rather, you could get them, but the observations of the results would not be seen by the new GM (unless that GM came from within the system). 

You could start some back-channel discussion with prospective GMs I guess... so that would be one advantage... but I don't know how big an advantage that would be.

TL;DR: I don't see any real benefit to firing Patricia and Quinn now vs. at the end of the year.

Who cares who the Interim HC is?    If Patricia goes then Bob The Barista has to go.   You hire a GM (better yet, give Rod Wood a nice title and give him a figurehead job with the auto company)..............You hire a President/GM to run this thing and you stay out of their way.  Whomever they want as Scouting Director or Coach - don't interfere.     (Santino - don't interfere).   Hey if Bevell gets the job after Thanksgiving (which is what I think will happen) and he goes 3-1, give him a Mustang and say thanks for helping us out, buddy.    I want it cleaned out - completely.  

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