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RatkoVarda

2020-21 Off season

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

Meh....

I find it depressing when the team is looking at old guys the manager or GM knew previously.

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7 hours ago, socaltiger said:

If the old adage that a contending team is strong up the middle is true then we still have a long way to go because we don't have a solid player in any of those positions that we can count on. That is the big problem. Maybe Castro at short or second. Perhaps Dingler at catcher and Paredes at 2b but that's real blurry still. It's like building a house without a foundation. You're just going to work real hard only to have to start all over again. 

And a lot of good glove/no hit candidates for CF. Greene has been playing CF in the minors but I don't know how much you can count on a guy that young maintaining CF level speed as he gets older.

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15 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I find it depressing when the team is looking at old guys the manager or GM knew previously.

Fluoxetine 40mg might help with that

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

When they start talking about veteran leadership, you know you are not adding talent...Gonzalez is not bad though.  

He is.  .317 career OBP, and the only good season he had was in 2017, when it was clear the Astro hitters were cheating.  He was exposed in Minny.  I don’t see where he is an upgrade anywhere.  Hard pass.

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5 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

He is.  .317 career OBP, and the only good season he had was in 2017, when it was clear the Astro hitters were cheating.  He was exposed in Minny.  I don’t see where he is an upgrade anywhere.  Hard pass.

He has a 99 career OPS+  which is pretty good for a utility guy.  He's not exciting, but would be helpful to their bench for a year.  I don't really care one way or the other. 

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1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

He has a 99 career OPS+  which is pretty good for a utility guy.  He's not exciting, but would be helpful to their bench for a year.  I don't really care one way or the other. 

I like that people's standards for utility players are high, though :) 

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10 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don't think the Tigers tried to win in 2017. They did nothing to beef up the team for a run during the prior offseason, so they knew they weren't going to win anything that year. What they were doing was going with the status quo hoping their expensive talent would have good years so they could trade them for great prospects to help beef up the system they were planning to build by tanking. Of course that part of the plan flopped because they got nothing for J. D., nothing for Upton, quite possibly nothing for Verlander, and they couldn't move a bloated Miggy, an old and terrible K-Rod, or a simply terrible Zimmermann.

Yeah, the whole "we went for it in 2017" meme is really aggravating.  They put it on auto-pilot after a so-so 2016 run, and quickly pulled the plug and had a firesale for everybody with a pulse, and got virtually nothing of value except maybe Candy and Paredes in return. 

10 hours ago, chasfh said:

Some people believe the Tigers intended to start the rebuild in 2015 because we were flailing around .500 and the end of the good times were obviously nigh, so Dombrowski threw in the towel by trading Price, Soria and Cespedes, and Ilitch fired him for it.

!!  I never heard the theory of DD throwing in the towel on 2015 and getting fired for that...makes sense, but that is a new twist for me.

10 hours ago, chasfh said:

Then Ilitch OK'ed a last hurrah run in 2016, and we brought aboard K-Rod, Maybin, Zimmermann, Pelfrey, Lowe and Justin Wilson—just the kind of bubble gum and duct tape that, under the right circumstances, might keep together a possible pythag-lucky winner. It looked for a while like it might work, but Pelfrey, Lowe and Zimmermann flopped and, along with a Sanchez collapse and an inexplicable reliance on Mike Aviles in the outfield, that made up most of the shortfall.

So I won't count 2015 even though we white-flagged the year, and because we did make a half-assed attempt in 2016, I won't count that, either. But I will definitely count 2017 as the beginning, so as far as I'm concerned, we are going into year five, and that's long for a rebuild consisting of consecutive sub-.400 teams. And unless something amazing happens, I do think we are are looking at another near .400 team.

Yeah, assuming 2021 is another tank-fest in the making, it's gonna be 5 freaking years of Indians 1984 baseball.  Maybe only 4 of those were planned tanks from inception, but it's still getting into Randy Smith circa 2000 territory, but without the new ballpark to force some moves by the owner.

Remember, even Randy Smith was named Executive of the Year in 1997, and the Tigers had a highly regarded batch of prospects as a result of his firesale.

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19 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

He has a 99 career OPS+  which is pretty good for a utility guy.  He's not exciting, but would be helpful to their bench for a year.  I don't really care one way or the other. 

I don't see his role--we already have Goodrum, who I'd rather have at this point (can play SS, much cheaper).  I worry that they would sign Gonzalez in order to give him significant AB's, which I would be opposed to.  

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21 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Hitting is kinda nurfed this year. And DD mode got all sorts of messed up because of the cancelation. Though, this was the first year you could play that mode at near the higest level without paying

Got my first HR of the year last night!  A no doubter my dude just stared at before starting for first...I am surprised he did not get plunked his next AB!

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On 1/20/2021 at 12:25 PM, RandyMarsh said:

Tork leads the way at number 5 overall followed by Skubal at 20, Mize at 28, Manning at 30 and Greene at 31.   I didn't see the whole list but I take it that there were no other Tigers in the top 100?    

Quick quiz: who was the #17 prospect in baseball in 2015?

Give up?

Daniel Norris!

Still confident we can convert these guys into stars?

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5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Quick quiz: who was the #17 prospect in baseball in 2015?

Give up?

Daniel Norris!

Still confident we can convert these guys into stars?

Blue jays ruined Norris before he got here. 

That's my story and sticking to it. 

(Look that is why its good to have multiple guys in the top 30. One or two might flame out but the others are probably going to be ok. Most very good players were very good prospects at one time. In the past we used to just have 1 guy rated high)

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Once Willie Mays goes that's pretty much it for that generation, isn't it?

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10 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

But the future does indeed not look bright for Burrows or Funkhouser.

Poor Biggs.

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15 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

This is getting out of hand.  And this is a rough one for baseball

 

43776903-6158-4944-83C7-D16C7E987C9F.jpeg

That sandlot team in the sky is getting awfully loaded.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Looks like one area in which Hinch’s thinking is compatible with the Tigers is the Devil You Know Department. While they’re at it, they might as well check in on Luke Gregerson and Tony Sipp.

Can't wait for end of career Verlander.  He won't be the same on the mound.  He'll be surlier.  Fans will turn on him.  It'll be not fun.

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11 hours ago, chasfh said:

... Some people believe the Tigers intended to start the rebuild in 2015 because we were flailing around .500 and the end of the good times were obviously nigh, so Dombrowski threw in the towel by trading Price, Soria and Cespedes, and Ilitch fired him for it...

 

1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

... I never heard the theory of DD throwing in the towel on 2015 and getting fired for that...

 

PS: DD was not fired for those trades. Everyone was on board with that.

DD was fired for flirting with the Red Sox for their open GM position "Everyone would love to be a part of that historic team"... 

Ilitch flipped his lid & fired him for disloyalty.

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1 minute ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

 

 

PS: DD was not fired for those trades. Everyone was on board with that.

DD was fired for flirting with the Red Sox for their open GM position "Everyone would love to be a part of that historic team"... 

Ilitch flipped his lid & fired him for disloyalty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ilitch was on board with a rebuild?

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32 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Quick quiz: who was the #17 prospect in baseball in 2015?

Give up?

Daniel Norris!

Still confident we can convert these guys into stars?

Norris has stuck in the majors for 5 yr and is likely to be be around somewhere for a few more so he is going to end up with a not atypical MLB career. 

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Just now, Gehringer_2 said:

Norris has stuck in the majors for 5 yr and is likely to be be around somewhere for a few more so he is going to end up with a not atypical MLB career. 

Sure, and I suppose maybe we can get three similarly atypical Norris-like careers out of our current top five.

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10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Sure, and I suppose maybe we can get three similarly atypical Norris-like careers out of our current top five.

Daniel is still a decent pitcher - he hasn't been able to stay healthy. When he was (2019) he managed 3 WAR and if he stays healthy from here he might easily end up with a 10-15 WAR career. But, sure - I understand your point, and it's a good one - as the case in point I doubt Mize is coming the big leagues with any more pure pitching talent than Norris did and we are certainly still hoping for more than what Norris has done to date from Mize in his 1st 5 yrs.

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9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Ilitch was on board with a rebuild?

He was on board with that season being lost and therefore it was beneficial to trade certain players. I forget if everyone traded was a FA at the end of the year... but I thought they all were. DD traded pending FA's, we were below .500 or too many games behind the playoffs to make a realistic run... IIRC, DD stated specifically that he spoke with Ilitch (spoke with him every day I believe) and that Mike was on board with the moves...

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10 minutes ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

He was on board with that season being lost and therefore it was beneficial to trade certain players. I forget if everyone traded was a FA at the end of the year... but I thought they all were. DD traded pending FA's, we were below .500 or too many games behind the playoffs to make a realistic run... IIRC, DD stated specifically that he spoke with Ilitch (spoke with him every day I believe) and that Mike was on board with the moves...

Your version of events tracks with my recollection.

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