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RatkoVarda

2020-21 Off season

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I am a bit more concerned about the pitching staff than the lineup long term. If a few guys between Tork, Greene, Candy, Castro and others can work out they'll have enough to add a few veterans via FA and the lineup is respectable.

The pitching seems so reliant on a few guys being front end starters that it makes for a more precarious situation if more than one or two don't pan out for one of the plethora of reasons they wont. Hopefully some of the second tier prospects will outperform projections a tad and all will be well. 

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

the funny thing is, as much as we sit around and despair about the hitting lineup, the improvement between 2019 and 2020 their AL offensive category ranks was substantial. They were at the bottom of almost every AL offensive category in 2019. In the short season they were still below average but fairly middling. The only negative category they still led last yr was BB. When your team is behind all the time because you are not pitching, your hitting will seem worse than it is. So it is a little ironic that we are optimistic about the pitching because there is so much in the pipeline, but as recently as last season the pitching was still the weaker link than the hitting.

im not all that optimistic about the pitching.  i think manning is their best bet at a star.  mize just doesnt look like it to me but we'll see how this year goes.  if faedo turns into anything that'll be a plus.  skubal looks promising.

you figure that tork and greene will eventually be regular contributors at the very least.

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You're not at all optimistic about the pitching? Not even a little? I don't think in my lifetime the Tigers have had such a strong group of pitching prospects. Maybe none will pan out. Odds are good a few will imho

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Agree that our pitching is more suspect.  Turnbull looks solid, Boyd is bad and Norris looks like a reliever.  I’m concerned about Mize and Manning.  Skubal looks like he could be good, but hard to gauge his upside.  Many seem to think that Faedo needs to pitch in relief and Burrows and Funkhouser are destined for there if they can prove they have command of their pitches. I personally think what was supposed to be a strength and foundation of our rebuild looks a bit more bleak.  

These guys are all young, though, and I’m hopeful that the new pitching coaches can help develop some of these guys to live up to their potential.

To me, Tork and Greene are our best prospects. Candy and Castro hit very well and I like Paredes.  Saw some positive in Cameron toward the end. Also excited for the last draft class.

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8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Cameron?  The 23-year older who had 57 AB’s in the MLB?  Yes, time is really running out on him.

 

8 hours ago, Yoda said:

Yeah, Daz was only 23 this year. To say time is running out is a bit of an exaggeration. 

That's fair.  For some reason I thought he was 25 already.

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6 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Again

do we know they didn't talk? And I can tell you I have no desire to take a job in Arizona. Even a good one. Just not a fit. Does that mean the place is bad or I just don't like it. You're trying to make a woe-is-us situation when possibly non exists. That is all I'm saying. Lots of factors play into this and just to look and be like "why haven't we signed player X yet ...we are cheap...we are trying to lose!" seems a bit silly

 

6 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don’t care about your thing with Arizona. It doesn’t matter here.

When top talent doesn’t want to even consider playing for your team, that’s a bad thing. Get enough of those, and that’s a bad sign for your franchise’s prospects. I don’t see how you can’t see that.

I think you didn't answer the question.

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Cleveland should do something really cutting edge and nerdy at the same time.  

Cleveland 404.8 – Hidden namespace

or Cleveland 404.5 – Denied by request filtering configuration.

Or identify the team as the

41°29′45″N 81°41′7″Ws

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8 hours ago, tiger337 said:

1901 Blues

1902 Bronchos

1903-1914 Naps

1915-2021 Indians

What's next?  

I like Blues.

One of Cleveland's nicknames is "the Forest City".  Because if you've ever been to Cleveland, yes, forests.

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5 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Cleveland should do something really cutting edge and nerdy at the same time.  

Cleveland 404.8 – Hidden namespace

or Cleveland 404.5 – Denied by request filtering configuration.

Or identify the team as the

41°29′45″N 81°41′7″Ws

Midges.

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6 hours ago, chasfh said:

If Kim has any decent market, it’s certain the Tigers won’t be near the top of it.

You are awfully pessimistic. If I were running the Tigers, I would do pretty much what Avila is doing, except way more articulate and handsome.

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23 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The Cleveland Mistakes.  So obvious they’ll never choose it.

The Tafts

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2 hours ago, Longgone said:

You are awfully pessimistic. If I were running the Tigers, I would do pretty much what Avila is doing, except way more articulate and handsome.

Kim is top talent who will draw multiple offers this winter well into the mid eight figures, minimum. Sure, that’s a rounding error to Cris Ilitch, but Avila has already indicated that we are not pursuing high-dollar multiyear free agents. So unless Avila is performing some sort of unprecedented public-statement negotiation jujitsu to get everyone else to lowball their offers to Kim while Avila swoops in at the end and gets him for a dollar more, that’s not pessimism. That’s the reality Avila himself is putting across.

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5 hours ago, Buddha said:

im not all that optimistic about the pitching.  i think manning is their best bet at a star.  mize just doesnt look like it to me but we'll see how this year goes.  if faedo turns into anything that'll be a plus.  skubal looks promising.

you figure that tork and greene will eventually be regular contributors at the very least.

You can never be really optimistic about pitchers because they are so fragile, but this is a very good collection of pitching prospects.  What is your problem with Mize?  He is widely considered one of the top prospects in the game.  

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1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

You can never be really optimistic about pitchers because they are so fragile, but this is a very good collection of pitching prospects.  What is your problem with Mize?  He is widely considered one of the top prospects in the game.  

you're not asking me, but he doesn't look like the same pitcher since his injury in 2019.  I was really surprised to see him struggle with his command last season---that seemed to be a strength for him.  Way too early to be overly concerned, but did raise a few caution flags for me.

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47 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Kim is top talent who will draw multiple offers this winter well into the mid eight figures, minimum. Sure, that’s a rounding error to Cris Ilitch, but Avila has already indicated that we are not pursuing high-dollar multiyear free agents. So unless Avila is performing some sort of unprecedented public-statement negotiation jujitsu to get everyone else to lowball their offers to Kim while Avila swoops in at the end and gets him for a dollar more, that’s not pessimism. That’s the reality Avila himself is putting across.

I don't think in any universe Kim would be considered " high dollar, long term". Realmuto, Springer, Bauer, yes, Kim, no.

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46 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

you're not asking me, but he doesn't look like the same pitcher since his injury in 2019.  I was really surprised to see him struggle with his command last season---that seemed to be a strength for him.  Way too early to be overly concerned, but did raise a few caution flags for me.

I don't know if he is a different pitcher than he was.  But he went from a 1.9 BB/9 in the minors to 4.1 in his debut season.  That seemed alarming.

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54 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

You can never be really optimistic about pitchers because they are so fragile, but this is a very good collection of pitching prospects.  What is your problem with Mize?  He is widely considered one of the top prospects in the game.  

looks like a jack of all pitches, master of none guy who wont miss enough bats at the major league level to be an elite pitcher.  #3 starter type guy.

but i'm a glass half empty type of guy.

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3 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Agree that our pitching is more suspect.  Turnbull looks solid, Boyd is bad and Norris looks like a reliever.  I’m concerned about Mize and Manning.  Skubal looks like he could be good, but hard to gauge his upside.  Many seem to think that Faedo needs to pitch in relief and Burrows and Funkhouser are destined for there if they can prove they have command of their pitches. I personally think what was supposed to be a strength and foundation of our rebuild looks a bit more bleak.  

These guys are all young, though, and I’m hopeful that the new pitching coaches can help develop some of these guys to live up to their potential.

To me, Tork and Greene are our best prospects. Candy and Castro hit very well and I like Paredes.  Saw some positive in Cameron toward the end. Also excited for the last draft class.

i agree.  i am looking forward to see what the new coaches can do with the pitchers.

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5 hours ago, leflore said:

You're not at all optimistic about the pitching? Not even a little? I don't think in my lifetime the Tigers have had such a strong group of pitching prospects. Maybe none will pan out. Odds are good a few will imho

really?  better than back when we had matt drews, kyle sleeth, kenny baugh, matt anderson, and seth greisinger?

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7 minutes ago, Buddha said:

looks like a jack of all pitches, master of none guy who wont miss enough bats at the major league level to be an elite pitcher.  #3 starter type guy.

but i'm a glass half empty type of guy.

If he stays healthy, he'll be fine, he has potentially three or four plus pitches. It's health with pitchers that is the big concern. There is a big adjustment to the bigs. He never even pitched in AAA.

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3 hours ago, Casimir said:

I like Blues.

One of Cleveland's nicknames is "the Forest City".  Because if you've ever been to Cleveland, yes, forests.

Ironically, there is a 'Cleveland National Forest' south of LA, which is not heavily wooded. Go figure.

They could always go with 'Cleveland Grovers'. Nobody knows who or what a Grover was anyway....

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1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

you're not asking me, but he doesn't look like the same pitcher since his injury in 2019.  I was really surprised to see him struggle with his command last season---that seemed to be a strength for him.  Way too early to be overly concerned, but did raise a few caution flags for me.

He needs innings. Tigers have handled these guys so conservatively that they probably cannot keep up their muscle memory. I hope that pays off in longevity eventually.

They also need to tell him in ST that he can't throw more than 5 splits in any outing. He was being too dependent/predictable with it last season.

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19 minutes ago, Buddha said:

looks like a jack of all pitches, master of none guy who wont miss enough bats at the major league level to be an elite pitcher.  #3 starter type guy.

but i'm a glass half empty type of guy.

#2 or #3 starter would be an OK outcome even for a top pitching prospect.  So, many pitching prospects fail.  I am hoping they get one ace out of their current group of prospects, but it's no guarantee.   

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