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RatkoVarda

2020-21 Off season

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45 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Seven guys in the field might spur more contact hitting, guys just putting the ball in play, since there would be a way better chance of hitting safely. Swing and miss would become a lot a lot more valuable, so pitching changes, time between pitches and pitcher injuries would probably increase.

maybe.  but right now they shift the entire infield over to one side of the field and leave half of the field empty and they STILL wont hit the ball the other way.  why would they change?

its home runs or nothing.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

its home runs or nothing.

This is what needs to be fixed.

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Just now, Casimir said:

This is what needs to be fixed.

yes.  but that wont be fixed by moving or removing fielders, imo.  analytics has told an entire generation that hitting home runs and taking pitches is the best way to score runs.  home run hitters get paid so people want to hit them.  the bats and balls are constructed to make the ball go farther so everyone tries to hit them.  the players are bigger.  the pitchers throw harder.

there is a lot to do to get rid of home runs or bust mentality.

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8 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I don't mind the foul balls.  I think a hitter's ability to foul a pitch off with 2 strikes in order to get to a better pitch is a commendable skill (or darn good folklore).

It's a skill, so I am rewarding them with a ball.  The exception is fouling it back which seems to happen when they get overwhelmed by a pitch.  Thus, that would be a strike.  

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

yes.  but that wont be fixed by moving or removing fielders, imo.  analytics has told an entire generation that hitting home runs and taking pitches is the best way to score runs.  home run hitters get paid so people want to hit them.  the bats and balls are constructed to make the ball go farther so everyone tries to hit them.  the players are bigger.  the pitchers throw harder.

there is a lot to do to get rid of home runs or bust mentality.

The best way to score runs now is to try to hit home runs because hits are so hard to get.  However, if hits become easier with fewer fielders, it may no longer be the case that trying to hit home runs is the best way to score.  There is a big difference between shifting and removing a fielder.   

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27 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

It's a skill, so I am rewarding them with a ball.  The exception is fouling it back which seems to happen when they get overwhelmed by a pitch.  Thus, that would be a strike.  

Seems to me that fouling a ball back is the skill and a foul ball that goes forward is more a case of mistiming a pitch and less of a skill. 
 

Regardless, this is the worst idea you have ever had. 

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8 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Regardless, this is the worst idea you have ever had. 

Thank you.  

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

How about we get rid of the most boring event in baseball?  Foul balls.  Instead of nothing happening on foul balls, they will either be balls or strikes regardless of the count.  If the ball is fouled back, it's a strike.  If it is hit forward, it's a ball.       

Call it speed baseball. It would get games times down to less than an hour! (I'd guess the league average batting average would be about 050 and a complete game would be about 70 pitches!)

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

maybe.  but right now they shift the entire infield over to one side of the field and leave half of the field empty and they STILL wont hit the ball the other way.  why would they change?

its home runs or nothing.

With nine guys on the field and the shift on, to hit around it, a batter has to physically change how he swings at the ball so he can hit it with authority into a part of the field he doesn't normally hit to. That's hard because it goes against the muscle memory he's established for the past number of years.

With seven guys in the field, there wouldn't be as many fielders concentrated in the area of the hitter's strength, so swinging to his strength and just putting the ball in play anywhere would increase his  chances of getting base hits.

In that circumstance, a pitcher has to concentrate as much as possible on inducing swing and miss, perhaps to an even greater degree than he does now. That will force him to put 100% of everything he has into every pitch to every batter, which will slow the game down as he takes more time in between pitches to conserve energy, and will likely lead to more injuries as he contorts himself on literally every pitch to get the batter to swing through it.

Assuming, of course, that they don't increase the number of pitchers who come into the game to a different guy pitching every inning (or less).

 

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

This is what needs to be fixed.

It would be fixed if they had the guts to deaden the ball.

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i am all for cutting down on the all or nothing approach to hitting, that said i still think the bigger issue for baseball is the pace of play, and that is solved by enforcing the rules on a pitch clock, mound visits, and keeping batters in the box.

that's what will solve the pace of play issue - to the extent it is an issue - without having to drastically change the actual game itself.  couple that with changing the ball a bit (and maybe the bats too?) and you can get more balls in play.

but you have to have management in place that is willing to enforce the rules.  players will continue to be as slow and deliberate as they want to be until you enforce the rules.  and it will be messy for a bit.  but it would pay off in the long term, imo.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

i am all for cutting down on the all or nothing approach to hitting, that said i still think the bigger issue for baseball is the pace of play, and that is solved by enforcing the rules on a pitch clock, mound visits, and keeping batters in the box.

that's what will solve the pace of play issue - to the extent it is an issue - without having to drastically change the actual game itself.  couple that with changing the ball a bit (and maybe the bats too?) and you can get more balls in play.

but you have to have management in place that is willing to enforce the rules.  players will continue to be as slow and deliberate as they want to be until you enforce the rules.  and it will be messy for a bit.  but it would pay off in the long term, imo.

I agree that they can make the game better without changing any rules and that would be my preference.  

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Pace of play can also be addressed by deadening the ball.

I don't know whether changing the bats can be policed the same way as changing the balls because the league supplies the balls, but players are responsible for their own bats.

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9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

With nine guys on the field and the shift on, to hit around it, a batter has to physically change how he swings at the ball so he can hit it with authority into a part of the field he doesn't normally hit to. That's hard because it goes against the muscle memory he's established for the past number of years.

 

then teach them to do it.  that's why you have minor leagues.  baseball players havent all be dead pull hitters from the beginning of time, they can be taught to hit to all fields.

putting seven guys in the field creates an entirely different game.

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1 minute ago, chasfh said:

Pace of play can also be addressed by deadening the ball.

how?  so long fly balls are now outs instead of home runs?

your previous post said that changing a player's swing is impossible because of "muscle memory" so why would they stop pulling the ball with an upper cut swing if they deadened the ball?  by your calculations its impossible to stop trying to pull the ball.  so it will just be long outs and not home runs.

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They need to just come out and say, “yes, the balls we have been using travel farther than previous iterations. We are going to move to the opposite end of the spectrum for a few years.”

Then we can see what happens and whether hitters adjust away from the home run swing. 

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Just now, Buddha said:

then teach them to do it.  that's why you have minor leagues.  baseball players havent all be dead pull hitters from the beginning of time, they can be taught to hit to all fields.

putting seven guys in the field creates an entirely different game.

I wonder whether some systems aren't teaching that starting in the low minors right now? Are some smart analytically-inclined development people seeing this as a major opportunity? We won't know for at least a few years, probably.

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5 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I agree that they can make the game better without changing any rules and that would be my preference.  

The problem is that to change the ball means for the league to admit that it has been a problem and they have been wrong for a long time now, whereas to make new rules proves how smart and forward thinking they are. You pick which solution the average bureaucrat is going to choose.

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3 minutes ago, Buddha said:

then teach them to do it.  that's why you have minor leagues.  baseball players havent all be dead pull hitters from the beginning of time, they can be taught to hit to all fields.

putting seven guys in the field creates an entirely different game.

I don’t think anyone was seriously proposing putting only seven players on the field. 

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1 minute ago, chasfh said:

I wonder whether some systems aren't teaching that starting in the low minors right now? Are some smart analytically-inclined development people seeing this as a major opportunity? We won't know for at least a few years, probably.

you would think they would.

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Looking into it some more, foul balls are a bigger problem than I realized and it's getting worse.  There are 54 foul balls per game and there are now more foul balls than balls put in play.  

Sawchik-FOULMLB-1.png?w=575

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The problem is that to change the ball means for the league to admit that it has been a problem and they have been wrong for a long time now, whereas to make new rules proves how smart and forward thinking they are. You pick which solution the average bureaucrat is going to choose.

They can change the ball, but lie about it which is what they did in the first place.   

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21 minutes ago, Buddha said:

how?  so long fly balls are now outs instead of home runs?

your previous post said that changing a player's swing is impossible because of "muscle memory" so why would they stop pulling the ball with an upper cut swing if they deadened the ball?  by your calculations its impossible to stop trying to pull the ball.  so it will just be long outs and not home runs.

By deadening the ball, pitchers would not have to bear down on every single hitter, so more at bats would resolve themselves faster.

In the olden days, every major league lineup had maybe one or two or three home run threats that a pitcher had to bear down on, and three or more guys who couldn't hit it out if they tried. So for those guys who couldn't, the pitcher could just serve up the ball in the strike zone and say here you go, hit it and get yourself out. And getting himself out is what would happen at least 70% of the time. If the pitcher is serving up straight strikes to be hit, that's fewer pitches he has to throw to get guys out. So he wouldn't have to worry about inducing swing and miss. That'll result in fewer strikeouts, and more balls put into play.

That's how pitchers in days of yore got all those complete games—not because they were superhuman and today's pitchers are made of glass, but because they didn't have to contort their shoulders and elbows putting unhittable spin on every single pitch like they do today, since now all nine guys in a batting order can take a pitcher out at any time. On most batters, all pitchers back then had to do was throw the ball, let it be hit, and have their fielders do the work. They just had to put just enough movement on it to induce weak contact. Also, in those days, pitchers had to bat in both leagues and since so many went deep into games, pitchers would bat three or more times, and that's yet another guy they could just throw easy strikes to.

Pitchers hitting will never come back, but deaden the ball enough so that half the lineup isn't a viable home run threat anymore, and pitchers will throw fewer pitches, pitch faster, pitch longer into games, and the pace of play will pick up.

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14 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The problem is that to change the ball means for the league to admit that it has been a problem and they have been wrong for a long time now, whereas to make new rules proves how smart and forward thinking they are. You pick which solution the average bureaucrat is going to choose.

Exactly. That's why I mentioned guts.

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15 minutes ago, Buddha said:

you would think they would.

You would, but you know the risks of zagging when the whole rest of the world is zigging. You can ask the 2003 Red Sox about that.

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