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RatkoVarda

2020-21 Off season

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On 11/12/2020 at 12:45 PM, chasfh said:

We can certain sign someone like Walker to eat innings, but now that the Tigers have taken the big step forward by hiring (presumably) the staff that will coach us to our next pennant, I would love to see them take on an elite free agent position player this year, someone in the Realmuto/Springer/LeMahieu class. Or how about Ha-Seong Kim? Something more than a parade of one-year flippable reclamation projects. I understand it probably won't happen. But I do think it's time. And if anyone can afford it, it's Ilitch.

You are right it is time they should take the step forward.  If this front office has any self-confidence, than this is 2004, and it is time to take a step.  And yes, Chris Ilitch csn afford it.  And he can probably make bigger profits by making some positive steps.

Unfortunately, you are also correct that they are not going to take any steps forward.   And to be frank, I'm not sure if standing pat demonstrates Chris's trust in the process towards winning, or shows that he doesn't know whether they're going in the right direction or not.

It could be 2004, but instead it feels like 1998... We have been losing a lot for a few years, we have some high draft prospects in the pipeline, but we probably have another 5+ years of losing ahead before ownership finally decides to hire the right people and to take the necessary steps to win.   

Maybe thats too optimistic....maybe its more like 1989, but Ilitch bought the team a little earlier....Chris still needs to spend the next 10 years completely focusing on the Wings, and another 5+ years getting old, before he can be like Mike circa 2004.  Maybe 2040 could be the next 2004....here we come!  At least Avila is young enough to keep around until then.

My consolation would be that if it is 1989 and not 1998, at least we have some fun years of Mickey Tettleton, Tony Phillips, Rob Deer, and Pete Incaviglia coming up.

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Analyzing The Tigers’ Matthew Boyd Decision

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/the-tigers-matthew-boyd-decision.html

Looks like we're pretty close to the end of the rope with the guy.

I don't think it makes much sense to trade him at this point. He has a credible claim to being the worst qualified starter in baseball at the moment, so I don't really see any value he gets us back. His best possible return in an offseason trade might be a J.D. Martinez-level package.

Feels to me like the only decent option is run him out there in 2021, cross your fingers, and hope for the best. If he pitches himself out of the rotation, then DFA.

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9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Analyzing The Tigers’ Matthew Boyd Decision

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/the-tigers-matthew-boyd-decision.html

Looks like we're pretty close to the end of the rope with the guy.

I don't think it makes much sense to trade him at this point. He has a credible claim to being the worst qualified starter in baseball at the moment, so I don't really see any value he gets us back. His best possible return in an offseason trade might be a J.D. Martinez-level package.

Feels to me like the only decent option is run him out there in 2021, cross your fingers, and hope for the best. If he pitches himself out of the rotation, then DFA.

Given his recent success, there is probably at least one pitching coach out there who thinks they can fix him. That doesn't mean they would get much for him however.

Hopefully our new pitching coach can. 

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7 minutes ago, Stanley70 said:

Given his recent success, there is probably at least one pitching coach out there who thinks they can fix him. That doesn't mean they would get much for him however.

Hopefully our new pitching coach can. 

Sure, might as well give Fetter a crack at it.

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FWIW, News had an article this week that basically said Boyd pitched thru hamstring strain and planter fasciitis that might have put him on DL in normal season. No reason to give up on a guy that gives you 2 WAR a year for $6M

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3 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

FWIW, News had an article this week that basically said Boyd pitched thru hamstring strain and planter fasciitis that might have put him on DL in normal season. No reason to give up on a guy that gives you -0.6 WAR a year for $6M

 

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I see no point in trading Boyd this winter.  They aren't going to get anything for him and there is still a decent chance he builds a little value next year.  If they are really being cheap, they could DFA him, but they need a lot of innings for next year.  

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Analyzing The Tigers’ Matthew Boyd Decision

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/the-tigers-matthew-boyd-decision.html

Looks like we're pretty close to the end of the rope with the guy.

I don't think it makes much sense to trade him at this point. He has a credible claim to being the worst qualified starter in baseball at the moment, so I don't really see any value he gets us back. His best possible return in an offseason trade might be a J.D. Martinez-level package.

Feels to me like the only decent option is run him out there in 2021, cross your fingers, and hope for the best. If he pitches himself out of the rotation, then DFA.

we had the perfect opportunity to trade boyd in the middle of his unsupportable run but instead of being reasonable we asked for gleybar torres.

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

we had the perfect opportunity to trade boyd in the middle of his unsupportable run but instead of being reasonable we asked for gleybar torres.

Do you actually believe the tigers proposed a Boyd for Torres swap?

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

Do you actually believe the tigers proposed a Boyd for Torres swap?

i dont know.  do you think they didnt?

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28 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i dont know.  do you think they didnt?

Neither of us know. 
 

That rumor came up as almost a throw away line in an article by some dude at the New York post that was all about Steinbrenner wanting SP but trying to balance that with not surrendering youth or something like that. I don’t blame people for latching on to that teat, but the same single rumor got regurgitated so many times that it is basically being presented as fact. 
 

I don’t believe Al called up Cashman and said anything resembling “boyd for Torres.”

To the extent Al asked about Torres, I believe it would have part of a larger discussion, or even just a hypothetical type discussion such as a deal like the one where the Yankees got Torres originally.

But Hank Steinbrenner waxing philosophical about adding cheap SP and maintaining youth and throwing out a couple names, that’s not the type of thing that constitutes a legitimate trade rumor to me, especially given that every last person that follows baseball found that to be a laughable proposal (one for one).

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Yankees: Are you interested in moving Boyd?
Tigers: What else would it take in addition to get Torres?

Media: Tigers decline Torres for Boyd.

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8 hours ago, Buddha said:

we had the perfect opportunity to trade boyd in the middle of his unsupportable run but instead of being reasonable we asked for gleybar torres.

You realize torres was a negative war player last year, right?

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1 minute ago, Keepleyland2 said:

You realize torres was a negative war player last year, right?

Would you rather have Matt Boyd or Gleybor Torres?  

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3 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Would you rather have Matt Boyd or Gleybor Torres?  

Torres, but again you guys make it out to be an unbelievable ask. It was a starting point and it wasn't crazy. They were similar in war in 2019 and again in 2020. 

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4 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Torres, but again you guys make it out to be an unbelievable ask. It was a starting point and it wasn't crazy. They were similar in war in 2019 and again in 2020. 

I think it was pretty unreasonable and I doubt it was proposed.  Torres is better and he's six years younger.  

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3 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I think it was pretty unreasonable and I doubt it was proposed.  Torres is better and he's six years younger.  

He's certainty younger, but rebuilding teams don't trade for guys the same age as the guys they are giving away. 

The better part is arguable as WAR doesn't support that claim. 

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5 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

He's certainty younger, but rebuilding teams don't trade for guys the same age as the guys they are giving away. 

The better part is arguable as WAR doesn't support that claim. 

So, maybe not better...The age makes a huge difference though.  You can't compare players six years apart when the young guy has a track record.  It's not the same as trading for a young minor leaguer.  If a 22 and 28 year old have comparable performance, you would to believe that the 22 year old has a better career ahead of him.  I don't see what the Yankees get out that deal.     

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Any updates on the Tigers minor league shuffle? I read Lynn's column last week and don't really want to reach behind the paywall, but... my questions:

Is Erie a definite to stick around?

Will the Tigers be allowed to still have two gulf coast and DSL teams?

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8 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Any updates on the Tigers minor league shuffle? I read Lynn's column last week and don't really want to reach behind the paywall, but... my questions:

Is Erie a definite to stick around?

Will the Tigers be allowed to still have two gulf coast and DSL teams?

I read it but don't want to go find it again - IIRC Henning's assumption is that Erie did save itself with the upgrades they did, but I have seen anything solid on what level team might end up there.

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I read it... I subscribed to support them.  Just didn't want to spill anything that was in there.

Just wondering if anybody had anything from somewhere else. I saw Sugarland made the jump to Houston's AAA squad.

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

I think it was pretty unreasonable and I doubt it was proposed.  Torres is better and he's six years younger.  

of course it was a ridiculous ask.  one of the best prospects in baseball who had success at the major league level for a guy who had 1/2 a decent season and then promptly went back to being a pumpkin.

the story is probably apocryphal so it doesnt really matter, but the idea that torres wouldnt be a ridiculously good get for matt boyd is silly.  the next thing you know, people will try to justify jd martinez for dawel lugo because "markets". 

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and im not even mad at Al for negotiating for boyd.  try to get what you can get.  but torres?  nyah.  dont be silly.

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15 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

He's certainty younger, but rebuilding teams don't trade for guys the same age as the guys they are giving away. 

The better part is arguable as WAR doesn't support that claim. 

If you really think that their WAR over the last couple of seasons indicates that Boyd and Torres would be roughly equal trade components, then I don't know what to say.

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