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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I would like to see the Tigers take a run at J.T. Realmuto. Yeah, I know we got burned on a 5/110 with Zimmermann, and Realmuto will cost about that much. Realmuto is decidedly not Zimmermann, who was flashing big warning signs after 2015 for anyone who cared to notice them.

Realmuto is not only the best FA available, but the best catcher in the game right now at a time we are bringing up at least three of the top starting pitching prospects in the game. He is a solid framer, pitch blocker and runner-controller, easily a top five defensive catcher overall; and you can make a good case that he's the best offensive catcher in the game. Given that the top of the catcher chain in our system is Grayson Greiner, and that Jake Rogers is increasingly looking like a defensive backup, I see nothing internally that should block us from getting J.T. on board.

We may not be one of Realmuto's top destinations, but I'd be disappointed if we didn't take a run at him.

 

I can understand this.  In general theory, I'm not sure longer term FA deals with Cs make much sense.  But given the dearth of current C availability within the organization and its hopes centered around some arms ready to pop up from AAA (hopefully), yeah, makes sense.

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I think I brought this up with Realmuto but what I like about it is the timeline matches up pretty well for us.  He should have 3 more solid years of catcher left, after that he is a good enough hitter that he could slide into the DH role which will be open then because Cabrera's contract will have ended.   He also has shown the ability to be a solid 1B in limited action so he could also slide in there if we want to give Tork any days off.   

Also we don't appear to have any catcher in the system that looks to be an immediate help, best case scenario is Dingler pans out but he's probably 2 to 3 years away so if all goes well right when Realmuto is looking at transferring from full time catcher Dingler will be looking to transfer into it.  

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4 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I think I brought this up with Realmuto but what I like about it is the timeline matches up pretty well for us.  He should have 3 more solid years of catcher left, after that he is a good enough hitter that he could slide into the DH role which will be open then because Cabrera's contract will have ended.   He also has shown the ability to be a solid 1B in limited action so he could also slide in there if we want to give Tork any days off.   

Also we don't appear to have any catcher in the system that looks to be an immediate help, best case scenario is Dingler pans out but he's probably 2 to 3 years away so if all goes well right when Realmuto is looking at transferring from full time catcher Dingler will be looking to transfer into it.  

I'm buying into it the more I think about it.

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Would it be nice to add good players to the team, of course. Does it make sense for the team that just finished with the third worst record in baseball and had the worst pitching in baseball to sign a 30 year old catcher to a high dollar long term contract? Of course not.

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33 minutes ago, Stanley68 said:

Would it be nice to add good players to the team, of course. Does it make sense for the team that just finished with the third worst record in baseball and had the worst pitching in baseball to sign a 30 year old catcher to a high dollar long term contract? Of course not.

What's the alternative? Continue to spend 20 million a year on 1 year flyers and hope you get lucky? Have a tiny payroll and never spend until you get good?   

Also there is no rule that says you can't make a corresponding move(s) after signing him to get better.   The Padres gave Machado 300 million after finishing last but then made a Couple other good moves and got growth from their young players/prospects and 2 years later were in the playoffs. 

That's the hope you have.   You sign an impact player,  maybe get lucky with another move or two and your high end prospects develop.  Until the prospects are ready for arb 4 years from now we're going to have a ton of payroll room might as well spend it on a position of need that can help offensively and help our young pitchers.

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If they sign a top free agent, Realmuto makes the most sense.  He's a risk because he is turning 30, but with expanded playoffs (probably 14 teams), they can be a contender pretty quickly (probably not 2021, but maybe 2022) and they do need a catcher.  

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Because by the time the Tigers are most likely going to be competitive it will be 2023 or 2024. At that point you have a 32-33 declining catcher tying up dollars, and if Dingler pans out it won't even be at a position of need. Just because AA has made mistakes and this rebuild is taking longer than it could have is no reason to throw the plan out the window and start making long term commitments to depreciating assets.

Just let this core develop and add to it when they are close, which they are not right now. If a lot of things come together this year it could be next offseason.

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I think they can seriously contend in 2022 if they were to add a player like Realmuto.   He could potentially add 6 wins himself over the course of the season. 

The big 3 could add a dozen or so over the below replacement level pitching we got last year then you have guys like Tork and Greene who should be ready by 2022.  

We prorated to 64 wins this year and with those improvements we could potentially be in the 80s, if one or 2 of Mize, Skubal and Manning turn into an ace by then that number could be even higher.   

With teams locking up young players more and more often its being coming rarer for a true impact guy to hit FA, particularly at a position of need which is a big reason why I'd like to add the talent while we can. 

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It's possible, it's just not probable. They literally do not have a single position player who has performed at an above average level in the bigs for more than a few months. Well not counting Miggy. And they had the worst pitching in baseball last year. Doesn't look to me like a time to start finishing off the team and adding high priced free agents.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stanley68 said:

Would it be nice to add good players to the team, of course. Does it make sense for the team that just finished with the third worst record in baseball and had the worst pitching in baseball to sign a 30 year old catcher to a high dollar long term contract? Of course not.

It makes at least as much sense as the team that had just finished with the worst record in American League history and had the worst pitching in baseball in 2003 to sign a 32 year old catcher to a high dollar long term contract.

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Love Realmuto. Many will offer 4 to 5 years. Probably take a 6 year deal for Detroit. Has to be a big benefit for our "potential" young pitchers to have the same catcher as they develop at the big league level. If Al & Company feel Castro can stay at short and they won't need to invest heavily in pitching over the next four years then it makes lots of sense.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

It makes at least as much sense as the team that had just finished with the worst record in American League history and had the worst pitching in baseball in 2003 to sign a 32 year old catcher to a high dollar long term contract.

And by 2005 he posted on OBP of 290 and a 735 ops.

 

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Just to be clear I'm going under the assumption that guys like Realmuto or Springer could be had for reasonable amounts due to the current climate.  

Say 5 or 6 years at 25ish million.  If it takes some huge 200 million dollar commitment then I would obviously pass.

I just think that we could easily spare 25 million for the next 5 years so even if the worst case scenario happens that he ends up busting it shouldn't effect our rebuild or long term plans.

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If he could be had for a bargain, won't the Mets or Nats or Phillies just swoop in and grab him?

Edit: I think it would take a huge premium to land him.

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26 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

If he could be had for a bargain, won't the Mets or Nats or Phillies just swoop in and grab him?

Edit: I think it would take a huge premium to land him.

Probably but a lot of teams are crying broke so who knows what guys are going to go for this year.    Also next year should be a much stronger class so who knows how many teams are going to pinch pennies this year to save for next.  

With that said I'm sure he's still gonna be in demand and we're going to have to outbid some teams to get him but in this climate it may not take as big of number to outbid as it otherwise would.   All speculation at this point though. 

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I think the idea that most guys are just going to take the best 1 year deal they can and wait for next year is probably right.

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1 hour ago, Stanley68 said:

And by 2005 he posted on OBP of 290 and a 735 ops.

 

What is your bottom line assessment of Ivan Rodriguez’s tenure with the Tigers?

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He played for the Tigers for 5 years and they made the playoff's once, finishing with losing records 3 times. His first year was fantastic and after that he was average. He was an important part of the 2006 team that went to the world series.

 

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He was great in 2004, but nothing special after that, although he was probably essential to their 2006 title run.  I didn't like Pudge's attitude.  It seemed like he disrespected Trammell from the beginning and seemed to give up on the team in 2005.  He also appeared to give up in his later seasons refusing to draw walks.  

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Pudge was a dick, and probably juicing, or was eating too many Doritos.  His market was non-existent, unlike what Realmuto should experience.

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The other thing to remember about Pudge's market is how many big teams were already set at catch. NYY, NYM, Bos, SF, Dodgers, Cubs, Baltimore, LAA all had catchers in place. So there were no big market teams that were gonna invest in a pudge. I don't think that will be the case with someone like JT where Philly could resign and afford him, Boston he'd be an upgrade, atl, SD, mets, washington, LAA could all afford and use him as an upgrade

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Fun Facts: JT Realmuto and AJ Hinch are both from Midwest City, Oklahoma.  They are both catchers.  They are also both 6 feet, 1inch tall.  It’s destiny.

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From an article by Mike Oz regarding LaRussa’s latest encounter with the cops:

La Russa stated, “I had one glass of wine while at dinner with my friends.” Before searching his person and placing him in the rear of my patrol vehicle La Russa asked, “Do you see my ring?” I asked La Russa what he was talking about? La Russa stated, “I’m a hall of famer baseball person.” While placing him in the rear of my patrol vehicle, La Russa stated, “I’m legit. I’m a hall of famer brother. Your [sic] trying to embarrass me.” I advised La Russa that I will to embarrass him, and he would be treated with the utmost respect.”

 

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