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RatkoVarda

2020-21 Off season

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Bauer has said as recently as this year that he is going to just take 1 year deals his entire career because he feels that is the way you can make the most money.   I think once he sees the giant offers that will be thrown at him he will quickly change his tune but who really knows with him.  

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His tune is funky in a Darnel Coles sorta way. I too would like to see him on the old english D

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I know many fans, including myself, question Castro's future at shortstop.  But I am also quite certain the Tigers are committed to playing him there next year.  So while we can debate where he should be, we also have to always assert that he is very likely our opening day shortstop for at least one more season.

I would not mind Schoop back at second.  But another under the radar option at second base I would love to see the Tigers sign is Tommy La Stella.  I know he will be 32 years old next year but I don't see the skills declining much the next few years.  He will be a really solid free agent pick up for some team.  

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1 hour ago, Hart said:

I know many fans, including myself, question Castro's future at shortstop.  But I am also quite certain the Tigers are committed to playing him there next year.  So while we can debate where he should be, we also have to always assert that he is very likely our opening day shortstop for at least one more season.

I would not mind Schoop back at second.  But another under the radar option at second base I would love to see the Tigers sign is Tommy La Stella.  I know he will be 32 years old next year but I don't see the skills declining much the next few years.  He will be a really solid free agent pick up for some team.  

Agree on your point regarding Castro.  And I think it's the right call--the bat seems to play, so we need to see if he can handle SS defensively.  If not, there are a plethora of SS options that should be available through free agency.

I do disagree at 2B, unless they don't think Paredes can play there.  I'd hate to block him all season with a veteran like Schoop.  You always have Goodrum as a stopgap, until he is ready.

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23 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Agree on your point regarding Castro.  And I think it's the right call--the bat seems to play, so we need to see if he can handle SS defensively.  If not, there are a plethora of SS options that should be available through free agency.

I do disagree at 2B, unless they don't think Paredes can play there.  I'd hate to block him all season with a veteran like Schoop.  You always have Goodrum as a stopgap, until he is ready.

this season was the worst of possible situation for W. Castro. You wanted to keep him in AAA with the threat being no promotion until he cleans up the sloppy throwing, but once a guy hits 350 in the majors for two months its going to be much harder to keep him in the minors with that kind of leverage next season. It's getting down to where all you can do now is hope he is motivated enough to want to fix it himself - and TBF, maybe he is.

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2 hours ago, Hart said:

I know many fans, including myself, question Castro's future at shortstop.  But I am also quite certain the Tigers are committed to playing him there next year.  So while we can debate where he should be, we also have to always assert that he is very likely our opening day shortstop for at least one more season.

I would not mind Schoop back at second.  But another under the radar option at second base I would love to see the Tigers sign is Tommy La Stella.  I know he will be 32 years old next year but I don't see the skills declining much the next few years.  He will be a really solid free agent pick up for some team.  

Agree on Tommy. 

But, I also know its unlikley the Tigers are gonna sign 9 FA this offseason. And who ever they sign is likely to be a one or two year deal. They are gonna need a catcher, probably Romine, and a reliable starting pitcher. Alex Wood or Rick Porcello seem like possible fits there. So then the question becomes how many bats/relievers then. I'd say the need a corner OF who can bat in the middle of the lineup for a year, someone like Reddick or Bruce. I'd like them to sign a reliever as well. To help teach the bullpen/not be god awful, someone like Brad Brach or Justin Wilson. 

So right there that's four guys. So I think the whole signing a LaStella or any infielder is unlikely. Plus I'd rather they get another big league pitcher either or starter or reliever. I think your looking at an infield of Candy, Castro, Niko and some combination plus Miggy at first. 

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49 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

plus Miggy at first.

if he never got into a game at 1st this season, I would put the odds of it happening in a subsequent season at negative.

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I'd rather sign Cron than Schoop.

You can then let the chips fall where they may 2B-SS-3B. I'd like Candy back at 3rd. And see if Paredes can handle 2B...

I'd also go for a starter, a vet reliever, and try to find a decent bat for LF...

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

if he never got into a game at 1st this season, I would put the odds of it happening in a subsequent season at negative.

he's still pushing it and this year was weird. wouldnt surprise me to see him out for 30 games next year

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3 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

he's still pushing it and this year was weird. wouldnt surprise me to see him out for 30 games next year

I suppose it depends a lot on who the manager ends up being. Gardenhire clearly was averse to letting him go out there, someone else could certainly be a different story.

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I'm assuming they'll go cheap due to Covid and roll out basically the same team as this year and prioritize playing their top prospects.

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3 hours ago, Scottwood said:

I'm assuming they'll go cheap due to Covid and roll out basically the same team as this year and prioritize playing their top prospects.

I would guess this as well.  When things dont go well, its probably going to wind up as the 5th season in a row (starting with the majority of 2017) where this board winds up rooting for the maximum number of losses and we are again talking about selling what meager veteran assets we have for middling prospects.

Hoo ******* ray.  Another year in Avila ****.

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4 hours ago, Scottwood said:

I'm assuming they'll go cheap due to Covid and roll out basically the same team as this year and prioritize playing their top prospects.

Hard to say. Whatever financial situations were caused by Covid apply to every other team, too. So, there could be team friendly free agent market. You can go cheap and end up with good players. Alternatively, you can choose to be a bit more aggressive than other teams and end up with some really good players if you one of the few teams willing to spend. 
 

More than that, though, this offseason isn’t nearly as comparable to the past few. The team finally has the fruits of their tear down either at the majors or on the cusp. The gaps that need to be filled via free agency (or trade) are pretty clear right now, and they are the types that allow you to try being competitive while also allowing the young kids to get their playing time.

I think you could target a good corner OF, a good 1B, and a good SP, and then just go. And with payroll as low as it is and the market possibly really friendly to a team willing to spend, I’m talking about legit players, not cron/Schoop/nova types. 
 

They could put all of that off another year, and maybe they will. But this year seems like the first opportunity to do something like that. I think a lot depends on what Chris wants to do. I think he’s more than ready to start trying to win. 

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5 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Hard to say. Whatever financial situations were caused by Covid apply to every other team, too. So, there could be team friendly free agent market. You can go cheap and end up with good players. Alternatively, you can choose to be a bit more aggressive than other teams and end up with some really good players if you one of the few teams willing to spend. 
 

More than that, though, this offseason isn’t nearly as comparable to the past few. The team finally has the fruits of their tear down either at the majors or on the cusp. The gaps that need to be filled via free agency (or trade) are pretty clear right now, and they are the types that allow you to try being competitive while also allowing the young kids to get their playing time.

I think you could target a good corner OF, a good 1B, and a good SP, and then just go. And with payroll as low as it is and the market possibly really friendly to a team willing to spend, I’m talking about legit players, not cron/Schoop/nova types. 
 

They could put all of that off another year, and maybe they will. But this year seems like the first opportunity to do something like that. I think a lot depends on what Chris wants to do. I think he’s more than ready to start trying to win. 

This seems pretty sound. Yet, I think Cron and Schoop are decent players. Health, as with any player, is of utmost importance.  Actually the Tigs were competitive when healthy. This may be an off season that they can begin to add 1-2 pieces (and the price could be right to do so) that are more long term. They could use another bat for the middle of the order - maybe a corner OF? The Inf seems a bit deeper with moveable parts. They could also use 1-2 SPs as depth there is always a concern. Maybe bring back Romine (or similar player) and alt at C (Dingler is 2 yrs away?). BP pcs are very volatile, yet I can see them adding a RP or two there as well.

You add those pcs and the team is deeper, competitive (meaning start winning more than losing and keeping it interesting)  while also allowing the youngsters to develop at the major league level.

Yes, a lot depends on how Chris I. feels. IMHO, I think he might want to win more now also and maybe just as important they need to just do so (and learn how to do so) and to start expecting this. No more 'tank' thinking (not that they were). They will have another high no. 1 pick 'again' next year - but maybe more important is the ability to draft the right players and DEVELOP them.

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43 minutes ago, Shelton said:

They could put all of that off another year, and maybe they will. But this year seems like the first opportunity to do something like that. I think a lot depends on what Chris wants to do. I think he’s more than ready to start trying to win. 

If it were me, the question is, "What do you make of the state of the young pitching?" Is enough ready for next year or not? Expectations may have been unrealistic buy Mize still had to be a disappointment. Likewise it was way too early for any evaluation of Fulmer to be fair, but that said there was zero upside surprise either. With TJ it's often command that takes longest to comeback but Fulmer is still missing a lot of velo as well. Rehab should bring that back even if command was lacking.

OTOH, Skubal looks like a pretty fair bet to succeed. Not being able to see Manning and Faedo against MLB hitters at all was terrible. (With all the young pitching talent the loss of the minor league season was a bigger disaster for the Tigers in general than for most teams) I think you can get more out of Norris but maybe 1st you decide if you are even going to sign him. Boyd is Boyd. Turnbull has a good arm but it seemed to me he had lost interest in competing in a couple of his late starts.

So is it worth making the investment in 2021 on the hope there is a starting staff in there somewhere? I'm not pessimistic but  honestly, I'm not as optimistic as I was in July.

WRT Faedo and Manning (and Mize last season) I understand the Tigers want to be ultra cautious, but on the other hand, there is a point of decreasing return. Sure , pitchers who don't pitch won't get hurt, but young pitchers also need innings to develop command. It doesn't just fall in their lap by magic.

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on an ownership note, I see it as potentially positive that Ilitch was willing to buy a 2nd round pick for a little over $3 million with the Wings. That could signal he is willing to spend modestly.

I'm sure he trusts Yzerman implicitly...are Avila's previous spending disasters held against him?

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20 minutes ago, kdog said:

are Avila's previous spending disasters held against him?

hopefully, yes.

he made bad decisions, or he got bad advice, or he failed to prevent Mike from making bad decisions. Only one of those is excusable.

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Just to be clear....there is no doubt in my mind that the Tigers, with an above average GM at the helm, and with the commitment of the owner to build at least an average payroll starting in 2021, could make major on-field strides in 2021, win 75+ games in 2021, and be competitive by 2022, with an average or maybe somewhat above average payroll.  There are plenty of other teams that have gone from bad to winning since 2017 without going through a Nuclear Winter.

And I'm not saying that we can be competitive because we currently have some amazing stable of young talent.  We have a decent array of young players at this point, including the three #1s (which we paid a very heavy price of losing to obtain), but we don't yet have MLB-ready young stars like JV or Grandy circa 2005.  Even without those two, the Tigers circa 2006 still would have been a pretty good team in 2006, probably even a winning team, if WAR is to be trusted to that extent. 

There's no reason other than Front Office incompetence to explain why we as fans should accept a 100-loss team in 2021.  It's laughable in my opinion for fans to think like that. 

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I also believe that with some of the prospects on the cusp, the Tigers may dip their toe into the multiyear deal market this offseason. I'm thinking only one gut.

I could see them throwing money at Porcello, but I could also see them signing Robbie Ray. Not only is he a Devil We Know who's had success elsewhere, but we could probably sign him for just a few years and cheap since he walks a ****-ton of guys. He could probably be had for 2/20, maybe 3/30 if we do a really good job outbidding ourselves.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I also believe that with some of the prospects on the cusp, the Tigers may dip their toe into the multiyear deal market this offseason. I'm thinking only one gut.

I could see them throwing money at Porcello, but I could also see them signing Robbie Ray. Not only is he a Devil We Know who's had success elsewhere, but we could probably sign him for just a few years and cheap since he walks a ****-ton of guys. He could probably be had for 2/20, maybe 3/30 if we do a really good job outbidding ourselves.

I'm not sure Porcello is any improvement over Fulmer, Rony Garcia, etc... at this point in his career.  He seems to have achieved Mike Pelfrey status.

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16 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I'm not sure Porcello is any improvement over Fulmer, Rony Garcia, etc... at this point in his career.  He seems to have achieved Mike Pelfrey status.

had a ridiculous BABIP of .373 (worst in MLB) and an awful strand rate; FIP and xFIP were good; he his healthy; should have a good shot at 180 innings of 4.50 era

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