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Week 2, Lions at Packers

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Doug Karsch was talking about it this morning on 97.1 and the one person we haven't mentioned about firing yet is Rod Wood. You have to think that Rod Wood has to go as well. If he had a part in bringing this regime in than I think it is hard to justify keeping Wood. :)

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

again, my beef with bob quinn from day one was his lack of play makers.  they have a whole team full of depth guys.  thats it.  and they rely on this stupid scheme thing that's supposed to make up for the lack of talent.

Unfortunately it’s even worse.  They have a bunch of custom pieces that will only fit in this unsuccessful scheme.  Tavai, Davis, Collins, Flowers, Jones, and others will be pretty much useless in a normal defense.  At least depth players could have minor value playing out their contracts as backups in a new regime.    

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I hadn't realize this, but a caller on the Ticket brought up that Patrica is 2-12 within the NFC North. A 2-12 divisional record is beyond pathetic.

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I am actually extremely bummed out it is the only time I see my brother anymore on Sundays.  If it were not for him coming over to watch the games I would not even be watching any longer.  My time with the family is limited and Sundays would be a great day to do something constructive.  I still enjoy watching football for the most part, but like 90% of Lions fans I just got tired of watching them flounder week after week.  The single bright spot in the past 30 years for me was 2014 when they made the playoffs.  2011 was awesome, but I was pretty sure they were losing to New Orleans, 2014 we had a couple bad years then back to the playoffs and I thought they could have beat Dallas....

I mean that was it, that was our shot and we got hosed.  They straight up feel like they were cursed.

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We are all stronger people for being Lions fans.  
 

It has been a great teacher in my life for how to deal with failure, disappointment, lowered expectations, and unfair treatment from others.  

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But I think allowing one's children to watch the Lions warrants a visit from CPS more than letting the kid sip Mike's Hard Lemonade would.

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my children are not allowed to be lions fans.

to allow such a thing would be child abuse.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

my children are not allowed to be lions fans.

to allow such a thing would be child abuse.

They are going to end up loving the bears and there is nothing you can do about it. 

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Valenti just said on 97.1 that he has "sources" telling him that Patrica didn't want Okudah at #3 he wanted Derrick Brown. He said that Player Personnel people and scouts wanted Tua or Simmons.

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7 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Valenti just said on 97.1 that he has "sources" telling him that Patrica didn't want Okudah at #3 he wanted Derrick Brown. He said that Player Personnel people and scouts wanted Tua or Simmons.

I put little faith in things like this.  It reminds me of the whole Joey Harrington situation where supposedly Millen didn't want him, but 'Weg did.  And then later 'Weg didn't either, but Ford overruled them both...

I very strong suspicion is that various people liked various players to varying degrees.  Maybe Patricia really did want Derrick Brown... but recognized that Okudah was better choice.  Maybe Player Personnel people did like Tua but were aware that secondary is a bigger need.  

I find it highly unlikely that Patricia didn't like Okudah at all and that Player Personnel didn't like Okudah at all, but Quinn (I'm guess here... who else would have the say?) stepped in a grabbed a guy that both his coach and his scouts didn't want.

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33 minutes ago, Shelton said:

They are going to end up loving the bears and there is nothing you can do about it. 

the oldest hates sports, which is probably better than having her be a bears fan.

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26 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Valenti just said on 97.1 that he has "sources" telling him that Patrica didn't want Okudah at #3 he wanted Derrick Brown. He said that Player Personnel people and scouts wanted Tua or Simmons.

i dont believe it.

sheesh, its been one game from a rookie corner and the knives are out already.  poor kid.

i remember watching charles woodson's first game and remember him getting shredded.  cornerbacks take a while to develop.

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8 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i dont believe it.

sheesh, its been one game from a rookie corner and the knives are out already.  poor kid.

i remember watching charles woodson's first game and remember him getting shredded.  cornerbacks take a while to develop.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199809060kan.htm

look at that first drive.  andre rison and elvis grbac were ripping him up.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

i dont believe it.

sheesh, its been one game from a rookie corner and the knives are out already.  poor kid.

i remember watching charles woodson's first game and remember him getting shredded.  cornerbacks take a while to develop.

I think it is totally unfair to be critical of Okudah already, no questions about it. I still think, as long as he isn't be coached up by Pencilhead he'll develop into a solid NFL starter. That said, it would be crazy if Quinn was literally the only person in the draft room who wanted him and most of the rest of the staff was lobbying for someone else.

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How many of the past 63 years have we known the Lions were out of contention by week 2? 50? 60?

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Lions pass rush win rate 19.2%

No other team in the league is under 30%

Quote

 

_end_rule.png

Team Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Buffalo Bills, 66%
2. Pittsburgh Steelers, 65%
3. Kansas City Chiefs, 56%
4. Philadelphia Eagles, 53%
5. Los Angeles Chargers, 52%
6. New Orleans Saints, 52%
7. Atlanta Falcons, 52%
8. Baltimore Ravens, 48%
9. Cleveland Browns, 47%
10. Houston Texans, 46%
11. New York Jets, 46%
12. Seattle Seahawks, 45%
13. Arizona Cardinals, 42%
13. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 42%
15. Chicago Bears, 41%
16. New England Patriots, 41%
17. Denver Broncos, 40%
18. Green Bay Packers, 40%
19. Tennessee Titans, 39%
20. Indianapolis Colts, 39%
20. Minnesota Vikings, 39%
22. Washington Football Team, 38%
23. San Francisco 49ers, 38%
24. Las Vegas Raiders, 37%
25. Carolina Panthers, 37%
26. Dallas Cowboys, 36%
27. Miami Dolphins, 35%
28. Jacksonville Jaguars, 35%
29. New York Giants, 33%
30. Los Angeles Rams, 32%
31. Cincinnati Bengals, 30%
32. Detroit Lions, 19%

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

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We run the worst defensive scheme in the league. Were it not for Adam Gase, Patrica would run away with the title of Worst Head Coach in the NFL.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

We run the worst defensive scheme in the league. 

It's like Patricia is just smart enough to be wrong. Sure, a little physics tells you big guys can stop smaller guys, but what he seems to leave out is that to bring momentum and strength to bear requires leverage, and to achieve leverage requires position, and to achieve position requires SPEED. 

It's like his analysis just ends at step one. Or maybe he is on a mission to make the league safe for guys that look like him. :dead:

How football smart do you have to be to know that it doesn't matter how big you are if you can't get/stay in front of your man?

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50 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It's like Patricia is just smart enough to be wrong. Sure, a little physics tells you big guys can stop smaller guys, but what he seems to leave out is that to bring momentum and strength to bear requires leverage, and to achieve leverage requires position, and to achieve position requires SPEED. 

It's like his analysis just ends at step one. Or maybe he is on a mission to make the league safe for guys that look like him. :dead:

How football smart do you have to be to know that it doesn't matter how big you are if you can't get/stay in front of your man?

how about it doesnt matter unless you can get BY your man and get to the damn quarterback!

how many times does mitch trubisky have to embarrass you for you to realize you may need to make some changes?

but it doesnt matter.  theyve selected players at defensive end who are pluggers who arent capable of speed rushing the passer.  even if they changed the scheme tomorrow i dont know if it would make a difference.

what do you do with these guys?  make davis a rush linebacker and play julian okwara?  theyre just not capable of getting to the qb because that's not what they do.  even if he tells them to do it they wont be successful.

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

It's like Patricia is just smart enough to be wrong. Sure, a little physics tells you big guys can stop smaller guys, but what he seems to leave out is that to bring momentum and strength to bear requires leverage, and to achieve leverage requires position, and to achieve position requires SPEED. 

It's like his analysis just ends at step one. Or maybe he is on a mission to make the league safe for guys that look like him. :dead:

How football smart do you have to be to know that it doesn't matter how big you are if you can't get/stay in front of your man?

As evidenced by a number of poor defensive selections and free agent signs (Tabor, Tavahi, Shelton, trading away Slay) they don't value speed as a whole nor quickness off the line. They, well Patricia, wants to run a defense like it's 1990 out there, where the goal is just to contain WR and stuff the run as a primary source of slowing down an offense. You'd think with Tavahi, Collins, and Davis he thinks he's got Kevin Greene, Sam Mills and Greg Lloyd out there at LB based on how he schemes on stopping the run and works under a containment in the passing game. Instead, what he has are a bunch of slow, oversized LB's who can't cover and don't have the speed to match many of today's running backs, either in the backfield or out in the flat.

This entire defensive unit, sans maybe Hand, Okudah and Walker is going to have to be torn down and rebuilt with speed, pass rushers on the front 4, off-ball LB's, LB's who can cover in space, LB's who can get to a QB, and CB's who are able to keep up with the increasing speed of today's WR's. Most of these current players are in all likelihood not going to fit the next coordinator's scheme, assuming that coordinator values having a pass rush and a get home rate on QB pressures that's north of 30.

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

i hope they go 1-15.  just beat the bears please.

0-6 against Mitch Trubisky would be a feather in the cap of Patricia's career.

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1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

As evidenced by a number of poor defensive selections and free agent signs (Tabor, Tavahi, Shelton, trading away Slay) they don't value speed as a whole nor quickness off the line. They, well Patricia, wants to run a defense like it's 1990 out there, where the goal is just to contain WR and stuff the run as a primary source of slowing down an offense. You'd think with Tavahi, Collins, and Davis he thinks he's got Kevin Greene, Sam Mills and Greg Lloyd out there at LB based on how he schemes on stopping the run and works under a containment in the passing game. Instead, what he has are a bunch of slow, oversized LB's who can't cover and don't have the speed to match many of today's running backs, either in the backfield or out in the flat.

This entire defensive unit, sans maybe Hand, Okudah and Walker is going to have to be torn down and rebuilt with speed, pass rushers on the front 4, off-ball LB's, LB's who can cover in space, LB's who can get to a QB, and CB's who are able to keep up with the increasing speed of today's WR's. Most of these current players are in all likelihood not going to fit the next coordinator's scheme, assuming that coordinator values having a pass rush and a get home rate on QB pressures that's north of 30.

that's another problem.  these guys only fit one scheme!  if they bring in someone else its going to be a huge rebuild on defense.  ah, what are we really saying?  its going to be a huge rebuild on defense no matter who the new coach is because they have very little talent in the front seven.

and i dont see why we still include deshawn hand as talented.  he had a good half season where he was playing part time.  he was hurt all of last year and he's done very little this year.  are we so sure he's actually good?

i like walker.  duron harmon is good.  okudah should be good.  the new okwaru kid has a college reputation.  the rest?  pffffft.  nothing.  the entire linebacking corps will need to be replaced.  

hopefully jaime collins gets better.  trey flowers was garbage at the beginning of last year but was dependable by the end.  maybe collins will be too?  i doubt it, but you never know.  and flowers has gone back to being garbage this year.

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