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DumberAndLeaner

The Future is Now

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4 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Your certificate is in the mail. It will get there in about 35 days, excluding weekends and federal holidays. 

Hey, you could give me a boost to my approval rating, and save yourself the stamp?  🙃

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1 hour ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

SO long as we continue behaving like trained seals clapping with approval, what incentive do they have to get better?

They're a business. The incentive is to make more money. 

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On 8/24/2020 at 2:10 PM, Tigrrfan said:

We may ever know whether Illitch might be willing to pay the price for owning a dominant team ..because IMHO, Al Avila likely lacks the GM skills to ever give Illitch that opportunity.

I agree WRT AA being inadequate...that is blindingly obvious.  If Chris I cared enough about winning, AA would have been fired long ago.  Maybe some day Chris will become a good owner, but I doubt it.

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6 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I agree WRT AA being inadequate...that is blindingly obvious.  If Chris I cared enough about winning, AA would have been fired long ago.  Maybe some day Chris will become a good owner, but I doubt it.

People said the same things about his dad at one point. 

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

I agree WRT AA being inadequate...that is blindingly obvious.  If Chris I cared enough about winning, AA would have been fired long ago.  Maybe some day Chris will become a good owner, but I doubt it.

Had you inherited the garbage situation that DD left for AA, what would you have done differently? Not signing Pelfrey and Zimm are obvious, but what else?

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7 minutes ago, leflore said:

Had you inherited the garbage situation that DD left for AA, what would you have done differently? Not signing Pelfrey and Zimm are obvious, but what else?

Oooh, can I try? Gotten something, anything of value for JD Martinez? Hired a manager who isn't stuck in 1998? 

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53 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Oooh, can I try? Gotten something, anything of value for JD Martinez? Hired a manager who isn't stuck in 1998? 

gotten something of value for hall of famer justin verlander?

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2 hours ago, leflore said:

Had you inherited the garbage situation that DD left for AA, what would you have done differently? Not signing Pelfrey and Zimm are obvious, but what else?

Still blaming DD 5 years later?  Ok.

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3 hours ago, Yoda said:

People said the same things about his dad at one point. 

Very true!  The lightbulb could click on at some point.  When he replaces AA with someone credible, I will cheer it, the same way we cheered when Mike I replaced Randy Smith with DD.

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14 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Very true!  The lightbulb could click on at some point.  When he replaces AA with someone credible, I will cheer it, the same way we cheered when Mike I replaced Randy Smith with DD.

Same! Sure would be nice. 

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15 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Very true!  The lightbulb could click on at some point.  When he replaces AA with someone credible, I will cheer it, the same way we cheered when Mike I replaced Randy Smith with DD.

That’s exactly how I felt about Sr.

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5 hours ago, Yoda said:

Oooh, can I try? Gotten something, anything of value for JD Martinez? Hired a manager who isn't stuck in 1998? 

Who for JD? From what I've read, nobody was offering anything. Same with JUp. Same with Nick. Same with Ian. Teams had stopped giving up top prospects for rentals.

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4 hours ago, Buddha said:

gotten something of value for hall of famer justin verlander?

Who for JV? Nobody was offering anything better. Keep him and Det wins at least 1 more game and they don't get Mize.

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3 hours ago, sabretooth said:

Still blaming DD 5 years later?  Ok.

DD was doing what Illitch wanted him to do, so not really. Det had a great run. But it resulted in an aging, slow, overpaid roster. They could have added more FA to stay competetive and pay the luxury tax. Not my money so I don't care. At some point they had to rebuild, and starting from the overpaid roster and the 30th ranked farm I saw it would take years.

And on DD, Boston didn't wait nearly as long as Illitch did. They saw he was starting to overpay with their roster and now they are in a retool time, having dumped Betts, perhaps the second best player on the planet.

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I don't believe Avila has done anything special or well. But I believe he inherited a nightmare and couldn't have done much better to this point. 

He has built a metrics department (not hard, starting with zero); at least given lip service to improving player development (still to be seen); built the farm (nothing special as they drafted at the top).

I could care less if he gets fired or not. I just don't see the urgency to do so. Unless there are multiple catastrophic injuries, the pitching staff is about to become good, maybe very good. So far I'm impressed with Parades (so are the Cubs announcers). Tork and Greene are a couple years away. 

If illitch starts to spend this offseason I think things could potentially turn around in the next 2 years. You just never know with prospects. I'm hopeful.

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34 minutes ago, leflore said:

Who for JD? From what I've read, nobody was offering anything. Same with JUp. Same with Nick. Same with Ian. Teams had stopped giving up top prospects for rentals.

Guess how this works. When every team knows you'll take garbage, they aren't going to make high offers. 

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8 hours ago, leflore said:

DD was doing what Illitch wanted him to do, so not really. Det had a great run. But it resulted in an aging, slow, overpaid roster. They could have added more FA to stay competetive and pay the luxury tax. Not my money so I don't care. At some point they had to rebuild, and starting from the overpaid roster and the 30th ranked farm I saw it would take years.

Ilitch wasn't going to hang around for a rebuild.  Its easy to understand a win now approach from him considering there were pieces in place and his own personal situation (age & health).

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8 hours ago, Yoda said:

Guess how this works. When every team knows you'll take garbage, they aren't going to make high offers. 

How it works: if a player is perceived as valuable, teams will compete for his services and bid against each other.

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9 hours ago, Yoda said:

Guess how this works. When every team knows you'll take garbage, they aren't going to make high offers. 

I hate to defend Avila, but share some examples of teams successfully getting a bunch of prospects in return for a veteran over the last two seasons?  The only one that I can think of is Greinke, but elite starting pitchers usually do net good prospects (see Verlander, Justin).

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Also, historically, the team that gets the established, big name player usually wins out.  Prospects are risky.  The three players we received for Verlander, at the time, were all considered good prospects coming from a team who was successful at sourcing and developing.  A couple of years later, we don't really know what we have.  All three are still in our top 15 prospects and none have been dismissed at this point.

Avila/Wilson looks to be a good win (two potential starters who happen to be our two best OBP guys, not named Miggy).  If the Tigers really cared about winning, they'd hit Paredes leadoff and Candy at #2 right now.  

Ian was washed up, Upton had a bad contract and apparently, there was not much of a market for JD.  I didn't like the return for Nick, but he probably falls into the JD category.  The Shane Greene trade looks like it could be solid, with Wentz in our top 10 prior to his TJ surgery.

Truthfully, the biggest head scratcher for me was the Fiers trade.  An established starting pitcher who was having a good season on a bad team--I would have thought he would have yielded more than a couple of middle reliever prospects.

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My main gripe so far with Avila is just the overall lack of development within the system.  That of course isn't all on him but everything starts at the top.

Outside of Skubal I can't think of any prospect that has really taken any major leaps forward after we acquired/drafted them and that is a problem.   

If the only guys that we develop are the guys at the very top of the draft class then we are always going to be playing catch up with the rest of the league.

 

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why do we assume avila "couldnt do any better" with those trades?  and that the markets had changed so much he couldnt get better prospects?

especially verlander.  you said the prospects were "well regarded".  well....how has that worked out?  

and the jd martinez trade was comical.  again, just re-sign him or let him walk if that's really the best you could do, which i remain skeptical is actually true.  i think he thought the players he got for martinez had promise.

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

why do we assume avila "couldnt do any better" with those trades?  and that the markets had changed so much he couldnt get better prospects?

especially verlander.  you said the prospects were "well regarded".  well....how has that worked out?  

and the jd martinez trade was comical.  again, just re-sign him or let him walk if that's really the best you could do, which i remain skeptical is actually true.  i think he thought the players he got for martinez had promise.

At least they got something good for Nick Castellanos.  

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I think the best way to judge a trade is how well the established major leaguer in low demand performs immediately after being traded. 
 

It’s really a shame the teams they were traded to locked them up long term and kept them off the free agent market. 

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Jay Bruce had a .900 OPS and played better defense than JD but like him was just a rental and the Indians got him that same summer for nothing. 

Yes JD is better but for only a half season he wouldn't add that more under normal circumstances.

And yeah we could've kept him but all that would've done was hurt our draft selection.  Detroit fans complain about the Pistons doing that and not bottoming out but now suggest the Tigers do the same thing. 

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