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Hall of Fame - Who's the next Tiger (or former Tiger) in?

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

A few years back before we traded him I thought Kinsler had an outside shot at it, at the time he was still putting up solid numbers. 

If he could've maintained his 2017 pace for 4 or 5 more years he would've finished around 75WAR and he may have had a chance but unfortunately for him he just fell off a cliff shortly after.  

I assume you mean 2016 and he was 34 then.

Age 34-35 is pretty much when one should expect a middle infielder to fall off a cliff.

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1 hour ago, John_Brian_K said:

Jarrod Washburn - I will never forget this one.....dude had a 2.5 ERA or something when we got him and it was crickets about the deal and I was so confused as to why.  He ended up blowing for us and retired after that season....weird.

IIRC it was known his shoulder was jacked at the time of the deal and he was going to retire at season's end.  It is why the Tigers were able to get him cheap.

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18 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I assume you mean 2016 and he was 34 then.

Age 34-35 is pretty much when one should expect a middle infielder to fall off a cliff.

Yeah I think that was the year.   I didn't expect him to post another 5 seasons of 6 WAR but I thought if he aged gracefully he could put up 15 wins in 5 years which would put him in the mid 70s, but instead he only put up another 2 wins total.

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It was never likely that he could hang 5 years beyond age 34 as a middle infielder.

Frankly the far more likely outcome was two more seasons at 4-5 WAR and even that was pretty unlikely.

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It wasn't likely he post his best season at age 34 but he did.  So yeah it wasn't likely but the fact that he not only showed zero signs of slowing down but instead playing his best would suggest that maybe he could be somebody that could handle being a regular middle infielder for another 5 years. 

Plus its not like he's Omar Vizquel, Kinsler could actually hit so even if he had to move positions he could still provide some value with his bat.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

If he wins one more CY Young and one more ring as an Astro, he goes in as an Astro. 😁

I wonder this as well... Right now if his career ended I think he'd be in as a Tiger.  But another couple of years... another few accomplishments in an Astro's uni and he might go in as an Astro.

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23 hours ago, Yoda said:

I think the next Tiger in is i don't care. 

What matters is whether he goes in as a Tiger.  

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8 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I wonder this as well... Right now if his career ended I think he'd be in as a Tiger.  But another couple of years... another few accomplishments in an Astro's uni and he might go in as an Astro.

Will the fact that he played on a team that cheated tarnish his World Series ring?  Will it impact his HOF chances at all (like not get in his first year)? 

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13 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I wonder this as well... Right now if his career ended I think he'd be in as a Tiger.  But another couple of years... another few accomplishments in an Astro's uni and he might go in as an Astro.

Concern troll. :wink:

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15 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Will it impact his HOF chances at all (like not get in his first year)? 

I wouldn't think so. It was a hitting scandal and he is a pitcher.  I haven't gotten much sense of guilt by association effect tarring Houston pitchers.

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3 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

Will the fact that he played on a team that cheated tarnish his World Series ring?  Will it impact his HOF chances at all (like not get in his first year)? 

Yeah....no

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3 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

Will the fact that he played on a team that cheated tarnish his World Series ring?  Will it impact his HOF chances at all (like not get in his first year)? 

It seems unlikely since he wasn't one of the ones accused of cheating.  There will probably be a group of sanctimonious writers that try to keep all Astros of the era out, but I don't think there'd be enough to keep Verlander out.  

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On 7/28/2020 at 9:03 AM, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Juan Gonzalez has no case for the HoF even absent steroid suspicion.

Check out 1992-2001.  That was a great stretch.  Should the HOF be for guys who had a great 10 year stretch and then left the game or should it be for guys that just hang around forever and rack up stats?

I'm not saying he should be in the HOF and I wouldn't put him in there, but some of the players that have went in there recently aren't even on a par with Gonzalez.  

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2 hours ago, roarintiger1 said:

Is it too late for Tory Lovello?

No, but since his career war is -.09 I would think Chris Pittaro gets in before him, as his career war is -.03

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10 hours ago, Tigermania said:

Check out 1992-2001.  That was a great stretch.  Should the HOF be for guys who had a great 10 year stretch and then left the game or should it be for guys that just hang around forever and rack up stats?

I'm not saying he should be in the HOF and I wouldn't put him in there, but some of the players that have went in there recently aren't even on a par with Gonzalez.  

An OPS+ of 138 over a 10-year period is good but generally does not get you in the hall as a no defense OF unless you played with or for Frankie Frisch. 

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Dick Allen had an OPS+ of 164 from 1964-1974 and never reached 20% in the Hall voting.  I look up his stats about once a year and every time I am amazed at how good he was.  When I was learning the game back in the early 70s, all I heard about Allen was what a malcontent he was.  Hardly anybody talked about what a great hitter he was.   

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There really aren't that many sure fire HOFers playing.  My list:

Pujols, Cabrera, Cano, Trout, Molina, Kershaw, Verlander, and Scherzer.

There are a bunch of borderline guys or guys who need a few more seasons under their belt.

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Juan Gonzalez has a 35.8 career WAR. That puts him #403 all-time in Jayson Werth, Eric Chavez territory. Solid player. Not a HOFer. An absolutely frightening hitter at one point though. 

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1 hour ago, Tigermania said:

There really aren't that many sure fire HOFers playing.  My list:

Pujols, Cabrera, Cano, Trout, Molina, Kershaw, Verlander, and Scherzer.

There are a bunch of borderline guys or guys who need a few more seasons under their belt.

Votto and Posey may get in. For sure Posey if Molina gets in. 

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I agree with both Votto and Posey having legit  chance at HOF. Votto has a lifetime ops about the same as Miggy and has a lifetime obp well above .400.

With Molina, if he is a slam dunk, why doesn't Freehan get as much as a small whiff of discussion. His ops is higher than Molina's as is his career WAR. 

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I forgot about Posey.  Very similar to Joe Mauer.

I think Votto's issue is his lack of stats.  While he has a nice average, ops, etc. He only has 287 home runs and 951 rbi.  Voters still take those stats into consideration.  I can't really think of any first basemen to go in recently with such low power numbers as Votto's.  

Greinke has a very good case for the HOF too.

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9 hours ago, leflore said:

I agree with both Votto and Posey having legit  chance at HOF. Votto has a lifetime ops about the same as Miggy and has a lifetime obp well above .400.

With Molina, if he is a slam dunk, why doesn't Freehan get as much as a small whiff of discussion. His ops is higher than Molina's as is his career WAR. 

Yadier is like the Derek Jeter of catchers.  He can do know wrong in the eyes of the media.  

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The media loves certain guys.  Jeff Bagwell and Ivan Rodriguez are both in the HOF.  Barry Bonds is not.  Not all roid users are created equal.  I am wondering if David Ortiz gets in the HOF.

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