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The Mize situation is just a bad look for the Tigers.  it paints Illitch in a really bad light.  Keeping him down at the beginning of this season is understandable but screwing him over by keeping him down another season is not the best way to treat your new ace.  Why would you expect him to go out of his way to help an organization led by Illitch and Avila or want to stay with an organization that treats their players like that? Do you think the Yankees or Dodgers would do this kind of stuff?  At worst, he's the 2nd best pitcher in the organization.

If you were the #1 draft pick in the next draft, would you want to sign with the Tigers after the way they treated Mize?  Baseball is the one sport where the #1 pick has some leverage.  

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4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Three things pop out at me:

  1. No one who played for the St Louis Browns made the list for that franchise. All Orioles.
  2. Dick Schofield Sr. played for a boatload of teams and hit only 21 homers in his career, yet he managed to play three different stints in three different decades for the Cardinals and homer in all of them
  3. Walter Johnson and Warren Spahn!

Yeah, Schofield was a surprise too.  I remember him as a kid looking at his baseball cards and wondering how he lasted so long.  

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Just now, Tigermania said:

The Mize situation is just a bad look for the Tigers.  it paints Illitch in a really bad light.  Keeping him down at the beginning of this season is understandable but screwing him over by keeping him down another season is not the best way to treat your new ace.  Why would you expect him to go out of his way to help an organization led by Illitch and Avila or want to stay with an organization that treats their players like that? Do you think the Yankees or Dodgers would do this kind of stuff?  At worst, he's the 2nd best pitcher in the organization.

If you were the #1 draft pick in the next draft, would you want to sign with the Tigers after the way they treated Mize?  Baseball is the one sport where the #1 pick has some leverage.  

See Bryant, Kris.

Same agent, too.

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Willie McCovey actually did it in 4 different decades for San Fran.

Teddy ballgame did it in 4 as well 

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2 hours ago, Tigermania said:

The Mize situation is just a bad look for the Tigers.  it paints Illitch in a really bad light. 

Nobody gives a **** about the look but hard core Tiger fans and they will be the first ones in line to watch a Mize start when the time comes and we are past the virus.

And if the Tigers are winning 'ships at the back end of this decade, the same people talking about the poor look / bad light under which Ilitch operates will be telling us what a great owner he is.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Three things pop out at me:

  1. No one who played for the St Louis Browns made the list for that franchise. All Orioles.
  2. Dick Schofield Sr. played for a boatload of teams and hit only 21 homers in his career, yet he managed to play three different stints in three different decades for the Cardinals and homer in all of them
  3. Walter Johnson and Warren Spahn!

How many Browns actually played for the club 3 different decades?  They were really bad most of their existence.  Bad players don't hang around that long, usually.

Who is the Browns greatest player off the top of your head?  Sisler?  Ken Williams?  

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12 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Nobody gives a **** about the look but hard core Tiger fans and they will be the first ones in line to watch a Mize start when the time comes and we are past the virus.

Sorry to upset you Al Avila.

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I'm not upset and that is a cop out besides.

I guess I don't get the premise of the 'its a bad look' wankering.  Are we to think you, or others, are really concerned about how Chris or the Tigers are perceived by the public because Mize hasn't been promoted?  I doubt either is concerned about it.  I wouldn't expect them to be, at least.  

If you want to say it is poor roster management or the team isn't as competitive as it could or should be by keeping Mize down, I can buy that.  Make the argument well enough, and I would agree with it.

 

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Nothing wrong with the argument.  You just don't agree with it so you try to belittle me.  It's fine.  I wouldn't expect you to get the premise.

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Lay out the premise so that I get it.  I am all ears.

And I am not attempting to belittle you.  I am belittling the argument because it reads like a concern troll to me.

Completely different things.

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56 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How many Browns actually played for the club 3 different decades?  They were really bad most of their existence.  Bad players don't hang around that long, usually.

Who is the Browns greatest player off the top of your head?  Sisler?  Ken Williams?  

Without looking it up I’d say Sisler. He was the heart of those early 20s first division teams.

Vern Stephens also had some good years later on. I believe he was a 4-F on the ‘44 champs.

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Vern Stephens is a good one.  Forgot about him.  He got traded to Boston, right?

EDIT: Yup.  Did make it back to Baltimore, but since his career started in '41 he only played 2 decades.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How many Browns actually played for the club 3 different decades?  They were really bad most of their existence.  Bad players don't hang around that long, usually.

Who is the Browns greatest player off the top of your head?  Sisler?  Ken Williams?  

Babe Ruth, or were they the Braves by then?

Edit - never mind, my head is up my ***

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Now that I’ve looked it up, I’m reminded that Bobby Wallace from the 1900s and 10s also made the Hall of Fame on the strength of his performance with the Browns. 

I also had to look up their all time best pitcher, also from the early 20s, whom I’ve heard of but definitely could not have named off the top of my head. The Browns had no pitchers making the Hall of Fame because of their work in St Louis. 

 

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Now that I’ve looked it up, I’m reminded that Bobby Wallace from the 1900s and 10s also made the Hall of Fame on the strength of his performance with the Browns. 

I also had to look up their all time best pitcher, also from the early 20s, whom I’ve heard of but definitely could not have named off the top of my head. The Browns had no pitchers making the Hall of Fame because of their work in St Louis. 

 

Urban Shocker pitched for the Browns from 1918-1924, posting 38 WAR. He bookended his career with the Yankees. His career stats are definitely borderline Hall of Fame. 124 ERA + (better than Juan Marichal,, Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, and others) and 54 career WAR. 

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In the how the game has changed department: Shocker led the league in S/W ratio twice in his career. In 1922 he had a 2.61 S/W ratio and in 1923 2.22. Verlander led the AL the last two years with a 7.84 and 7.14. 

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4 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Nobody gives a **** about the look but hard core Tiger fans and they will be the first ones in line to watch a Mize start when the time comes and we are past the virus.

And if the Tigers are winning 'ships at the back end of this decade, the same people talking about the poor look / bad light under which Ilitch operates will be telling us what a great owner he is.

And when the Tigers buy out the last 3 arb years and an additional 5 years after that for a record Boras contract... this all becomes moot.

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Urban Shocker was a few more good seasons away from making he hall.  He was pretty damned good.

Ned Garver was another good pitcher the Browns came up with.

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Not really sure I like this move. Not doubting his ability at all but what’s to gain? Provided he’s healthy, I’d rather see Faedo up first. See what he’s got and go from there. I have to wonder if this isn’t a PR move to satisfy the fans as the team begins its annual descent into the abyss. Hope not.

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One of the best Browns nicknames was Baby Doll Jacobson. 

Since I like under appreciated third basemen in baseball history, I will also mention Harlond Clift.  

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5 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Not really sure I like this move. Not doubting his ability at all but what’s to gain? Provided he’s healthy, I’d rather see Faedo up first. See what he’s got and go from there. I have to wonder if this isn’t a PR move to satisfy the fans as the team begins its annual descent into the abyss. Hope not.

There's a pretty reasonable argument to be made that facing ML hitting will let him know what to work on in the offseason. 

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