06-19-12--DETROIT VS ST. LOUIS--7:05 PM

**IdahoBert** · 06-19-2012, 10:16 PM

OLD SCHOOL WIN GIF!

**Hart** · 06-19-2012, 10:16 PM

Funny how this board has clamored many times to use the pitcher with the best chance to get you outs in a relief situation and when the Tigers are finally forced into doing that tonight, they get a clean 9th inning. People think message boards are for lunatics who do not know as much as the executives and managers but if there is one thing this board does have right or over many actual baseball people, it is how to use a bullpen.

**ben9753** · 06-19-2012, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

Funny how this board has clamored many times to use the pitcher with the best chance to get you outs in a relief situation and when the Tigers are finally forced into doing that tonight, they get a clean 9th inning. People think message boards are for lunatics who do not know as much as the executives and managers but if there is one thing this board does have right or over many actual baseball people, it is how to use a bullpen.

No manager has been brave enough to put his neck on the line and try to take on conventional wisdom by going with his best pitcher in high leverage situations eg. bases loaded in the seventh, and risk losing his job over it. It would have to be someone like Joe Maddon in Tampa who is pretty much bulletproof and has gone against the grain in the past, but he hasn't yet to abolish the predetermined closer role.

**thefunk** · 06-19-2012, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by IdahoBert

OLD SCHOOL WIN GIF!

yeah, this needs to happen more often. like last year, after every game.

**kdog** · 06-19-2012, 10:23 PM

Sore right wrist for Valverde. Leyland is concerned.

**IdahoBert** · 06-19-2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by thefunk

yeah, this needs to happen more often. like last year, after every game.

Both the Tigers and this board need to get back to basics.

**IdahoBert** · 06-19-2012, 10:27 PM

5m Chris Iott ‏@Chris_Iott
Jose Valverde threw a pitch in the bullpen. Hurt his wrist. Tried to throw another. Couldn't. #Tigers
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6m Chris Iott ‏@Chris_Iott
Sore right wrist for Jose Valverde. Jim Leyland admitted he is concerned. Will be further evaluated. #Tigers
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**Gehringer_2** · 06-19-2012, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by ben9753

No manager has been brave enough to put his neck on the line and try to take on conventional wisdom by going with his best pitcher in high leverage situations eg. bases loaded in the seventh, and risk losing his job over it. It would have to be someone like Joe Maddon in Tampa who is pretty much bulletproof and has gone against the grain in the past, but he hasn't yet to abolish the predetermined closer role.

I wonder if there is something of an economic conspiracy about it as well. As it is now, few teams pay any reliever but the 'closer' any kind of large money - Benoit being a notable exception. If you explode the myth the 'closer' and have to bid for WHIP instead just on the few guys who by circumstance can accumulate the high save numbers, you might end up having to pay more guys more money.

**djb6** · 06-19-2012, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by kdog

Sore right wrist for Valverde. Leyland is concerned.

I hope it doesn't hurt too much, but I did enjoy not having him out there...

**BornOnThe4th** · 06-19-2012, 10:33 PM

I am listening to Hawk with the Chisox on the verge of losing.

Sweet, sweet, music to my ears.

**hail2mich** · 06-19-2012, 10:35 PM

Stupid Chapman blows it for the Reds. Indians win on a walkoff homerun

**ToledoTigerFan** · 06-19-2012, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by kdog

Sore right wrist for Valverde. Leyland is concerned.

He's the only one concerned. For me, it's a --- no pun intended ---- relief.

**ben9753** · 06-19-2012, 10:38 PM

Damn Chapman.

**Hart** · 06-19-2012, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

I wonder if there is something of an economic conspiracy about it as well. As it is now, few teams pay any reliever but the 'closer' any kind of large money - Benoit being a notable exception. If you explode the myth the 'closer' and have to bid for WHIP instead just on the few guys who by circumstance can accumulate the high save numbers, you might end up having to pay more guys more money.

It's a possibility I guess but I think for the most part, 7th and 8th inning guys have just gotten screwed because there is no money left over once the stars at other positions get paid.

In 10 years, I would not be surprised if the way bullpens are used and paid in MLB changes drastically. There are many smart baseball fans who are sharing good ideas about the relief pitchers in books and on the internet and eventually GM's will catch up.

**ToledoTigerFan** · 06-19-2012, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by IdahoBert

OLD SCHOOL WIN GIF!

Love the dancing Hobbes.

**robgrave** · 06-19-2012, 10:46 PM

Sorry, but I don't share the good feeling about Valverde's injury. He's been remarkably effective his last few outings, much more so than we've come to expect from him. He still can pitch, and he still can close. If he's out for an extended period, we will miss him.

**kdog** · 06-19-2012, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by robgrave

Sorry, but I don't share the good feeling about Valverde's injury. He's been remarkably effective his last few outings, much more so than we've come to expect from him. He still can pitch, and he still can close. If he's out for an extended period, we will miss him.

It's childish to be happy a guy is injured. I see worst case as a DL stint.

**hail2mich** · 06-19-2012, 10:52 PM

White Sox lose to the Cubs. Haha

**tigers84roar06** · 06-19-2012, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by hail2mich

White Sox lose to the Cubs. Haha

After watching a great Tigers game, I turned to WGN and watched from the bottom of the 8th onward of the Chicago game. I literally laughed out loud a few times, listening to hawk and the other guy. Hawk talking about how huge of a play a checked swing call strike was LOL, then the other guy says "he clearly got him (a Cub) by half a step" when in actuality he was safe. I would honestly get a headache listening to him lol. Anyways other than the Cleveland walkoff, a good night. Go Tigers!

**robgrave** · 06-19-2012, 10:56 PM

We have Porcello going tomorrow, Turner on Thursday. Chances are we will be relying heavily on our bullpen. Having no Valverde around won't help.

**ROMAD1** · 06-19-2012, 11:01 PM

Congratulations to the Cleveland Indians the June 19 champions of the AL Central.

**The Ghost of Neifi** · 06-19-2012, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by robgrave

We have Porcello going tomorrow, Turner on Thursday. Chances are we will be relying heavily on our bullpen. Having no Valverde around won't help.

While I agree with the setiment, Valverde has been awful for the majority of this season

Having Dotel back certainly helps things

**RJBBREZ** · 06-20-2012, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by robgrave

We have Porcello going tomorrow, Turner on Thursday. Chances are we will be relying heavily on our bullpen. Having no Valverde around won't help.

Valverde is terrible in non-save situations, and has been basically a heart attack waiting to happen in every appearance this season. I don't think they will "miss" that for a few days. It isn't like he is a long reliever who chews up innings or does anything remarkable in any way. The way Villarreal,Coke, Below, and Benoit have been pitching, they can get by. Also hopefully Marte starts to come around.

**PuNk42AE** · 06-20-2012, 12:56 AM

The Valve has been a pretty good pitcher the last two months, (except for the Extra Innings game, when most of the runs were unearned).

April - 1.86 WHIP, .289 BAA
May - 1.31 WHIP, .205 BAA
June - 1.30 WHIP, .214 BAA

His strike outs have been down in June, but he also threw 4 1-2-3 innings in June. The WHIP is still a bit high over his career (1.19), but he was able to get something to click after April.

**pyrotigers** · 06-20-2012, 01:25 AM

I don't root for an injury to anyone, especially when it's a position where Jose Ortega and Luke Putkonen exist, but Valverde has been horrendous all season and even while getting outs this month he's not striking anyone out so it's pretty hard to see it as a big loss

**Shelton** · 06-20-2012, 09:01 AM

The team might be better now by shifting the good relievers back an inning, which wouldn't have happened with valverde.

Even though a valverde injury means the addition of a terrible pitcher, the role changes for Benoit, Dotel, and coke will help. Those three and Villarreal are more than enough to close out a win.