04-13-12-DETROIT VS CHICAGO WHITE SOX--2:10 PM

**MC24** · 04-13-2012, 05:02 PM

Wow. I don't know if I have ever seen a worse player than Delmon Young. Fastball "hitter" and he just stares at it...bum.

**Jeff6851** · 04-13-2012, 05:02 PM

I can't begin to tell you how much I hate Young. Last year he swung at everything now he won't swing at a ball right down the middle

**MC24** · 04-13-2012, 05:03 PM

Ball isn't carrying.

Can't believe we lost to the White Sox...

**New_Age_X** · 04-13-2012, 05:03 PM

Young is a joke. I'm done defending him. I hate him more then I hate Inge now and that is saying a lot.

**Antrat** · 04-13-2012, 05:03 PM

"Miss me now?"

**The Truman Show** · 04-13-2012, 05:04 PM

The worst thing about that AB is that Delmon saw that pitch and legitimately thought it was close to being called a ball.

**Antrat** · 04-13-2012, 05:06 PM

Crowds in Chicago have hot chicks and guys at least a 150 lbs overweight.
Strange.

**robgrave** · 04-13-2012, 05:07 PM

Lord, I wish we had a defense that makes the other guys earn their runs. Very disappointing to give them up like that.

**Jeff6851** · 04-13-2012, 05:07 PM

And Jhonny watches one too.

**The Truman Show** · 04-13-2012, 05:07 PM

Between the loss, the Delmon stuff, and the constant ******** with MLB.tv being blacked out, that was probably the least I've ever enjoyed watching a baseball game. Ugh. Better luck tomorrow, I hope.

**New_Age_X** · 04-13-2012, 05:10 PM

What scares me about this loss is that Wilk is going tomorrow for us. I know he is my AAT and I should have confidence in him well I don't.

**Ingefanclub** · 04-13-2012, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

Wow. What is even worse than the play by Young is the White Sox scorer calling the play a triple.
MLB should overturn this travesty.

By the way the Tigers lead the majors in fielding percentage with only 1 error on the year.
With scoring like this I can see why.

**ROMAD1** · 04-13-2012, 05:19 PM

emotional?

**Gehringer_2** · 04-13-2012, 05:31 PM

While on the topic of the 'D', did anyone think Boesch might have had the ball that dropped in front of him, or did I just think he was closer than he was?

**IdahoBert** · 04-13-2012, 05:33 PM

Darn, we lose. Young gets the only runs in too. Oh well. Tomorrow is another day.

**tigerbomb13** · 04-13-2012, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

Hypnotic. I've been staring at this for five minutes straight.

Does he remind anyone else of those helicopter leaves that fall from trees?

**Gehringer_2** · 04-13-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Also, that was not scored an error, so that's why errors and fielding % are the worst things ever.

Yup. If the Sabr people are serious about fielding metrics the 1st thing they should start doing is rating errors independently from official scorers, because the OS around the league are a complete joke any more.

**Mehm** · 04-13-2012, 05:34 PM

Hm, I could've swore it was Delmon that had the two run homer to get the Tigers back in the game when Peavy was virtually unhittable...He blows defensively and there's no excuse for not having him be the DH...but I don't think his hitting is a problem...

Schlereth...Just dumbounds me why he's even on the team...

**ROMAD1** · 04-13-2012, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

Yup. If the Sabr people are serious about fielding metrics the 1st thing they should start doing is rating errors independently from official scorers, because the OS around the league are a complete joke any more.

Grounds crews too

**jackson_cannery** · 04-13-2012, 05:38 PM

I know there will be days when the offense dries up a little, but it would be nice to be able to outslug the lowly White Sox in that bandbox.

**ROMAD1** · 04-13-2012, 05:38 PM

wilk and Inge up and Villareal and Worth sent packing to Toledo. it probably should be Schlereth instead of Villareal

**tiger337** · 04-13-2012, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

Yup. If the Sabr people are serious about fielding metrics the 1st thing they should start doing is rating errors independently from official scorers, because the OS around the league are a complete joke any more.

Some of them already do that in their metrics. There is some feeling though that the stringers who record the batted ball locations have their own problems with scoring.

But errors and fielding percentage are pretty useless. Not only do they cover only a small portion of a fielder's responsibility, but they are recorded in a biased way.

**Ingefanclub** · 04-13-2012, 05:42 PM

Look on the bright side. The Tigers could have been the fools who signed Dunn to the enormous anchor contract.

Dunn was 0 for 4 with 4 strikeouts today. The Golden sombrero.

**Gehringer_2** · 04-13-2012, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ingefanclub

Look on the bright side. The Tigers could have been the fools who signed Dunn to the enormous anchor contract.

Dunn was 0 for 4 with 4 strikeouts today. The Golden sombrero.

But until Raburn wakes up or goes away, we have our own equivalent hole in the lineup.

**The Truman Show** · 04-13-2012, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by tigerbomb13

Hypnotic. I've been staring at this for five minutes straight.

Does he remind anyone else of those helicopter leaves that fall from trees?

Yes on all counts.

**Gehringer_2** · 04-13-2012, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by tiger337

Some of them already do that in their metrics. There is some feeling though that the stringers who record the batted ball locations have their own problems with scoring.

But errors and fielding percentage are pretty useless. Not only do they cover only a small portion of a fielder's responsibility, but they are recorded in a biased way.

Sounds like it has to be an improvement. Do they using Scorer's errors or their own in UZR?

**sabretooth** · 04-13-2012, 06:17 PM

Guaranteed Elmon will still be our everyday 5th-batting LFer. Maybe a day off or at DH Saturday, but he'll be right back there. I'm telling you, they love this guy.

**tiger337** · 04-13-2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

Sounds like it has to be an improvement. Do they using Scorer's errors or their own in UZR?

Baseball Information Systems now records "good plays" and "bad plays" along with their UZR type statistic (DRS). I don't have any knowledge of how well they record the plays, but I would imagine they at least attempt to be unbiased. Official scorers are hired by the home team and thus can not be trusted to be unbiased.

**Gehringer_2** · 04-13-2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by tiger337

Baseball Information Systems now records "good plays" and "bad plays" along with their UZR type statistic (DRS). I don't have any knowledge of how well they record the plays, but I would imagine they at least attempt to be unbiased. Official scorers are hired by the home team and thus can not be trusted to be unbiased.

With scorer's home field bias isn't really the worst thing to me, because that would wash out in the aggregates if the bias were approximately random thus on average equal at all parks. The worse thing is how a team's fielders get penalized for having a sane/traditional/old school scorer that actually expects a major leaguer to make a basic play. I did a little quick survey a few years ago when it first started bugging me how scoring at many other parks was getting so ridiculous, and the Tigers as a team had significantly more errors at home over two years than on the road, while a few other teams I checked did not. The most straightforward explanation was simply that scorers at COPA had been stricter (at least in the past), which certainly lined up with perception at the time, though already not so much now...

**Ingefanclub** · 04-13-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by tigerbomb13

Hypnotic. I've been staring at this for five minutes straight.

Does he remind anyone else of those helicopter leaves that fall from trees?

I just heard that in England they call the Maple seeds spinning Jennys. I guess this play could be called a spinning Delmon.

**tiger337** · 04-13-2012, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

With scorer's home field bias isn't really the worst thing to me, because that would wash out in the aggregates if the bias were approximately random thus on average equal at all parks. The worse thing is how a team's fielders get penalized for having a sane/traditional/old school scorer that actually expects a major leaguer to make a basic play. I did a little quick survey a few years ago when it first started bugging me how scoring at many other parks was getting so ridiculous, and the Tigers as a team had significantly more errors at home over two years than on the road, while a few other teams I checked did not. The most straightforward explanation was simply that scorers at COPA had been stricter (at least in the past), which certainly lined up with perception.

Right, potential hometown bias is only part of the problem. The fact that the bias is not the same in every park is the bigger problem. It does seem that scorers generally give fielders the benefit of the doubt. The result is than errors made are usually obvious errors. They miss some of the less obvious ones though.

The UZR is actually calculated with that thought in mind. The basis of the system is plays made/ not made and difficulty of plays. The easier the play, the more points a fielder loses for not making a play. Errors are assumed to be really easy plays (because those are the only plays on which scorers rule errors) and thus players lose the most points on errors.

**Vonlenska** · 04-13-2012, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

While on the topic of the 'D', did anyone think Boesch might have had the ball that dropped in front of him, or did I just think he was closer than he was?

I thought he pulled up on the ball. Looked to me like it dropped only a few feet in front him.

**Casimir** · 04-13-2012, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

$6.5 million this season, but you cannot put a price tag on the giggles that this is worth.

**whitesox901** · 04-14-2012, 12:56 AM

I think you have to give both starters their due. I think Peavy looks better just because the Tiger line-up is >>>>> than the Sox one, but I don't think Peavy made the Tigers' look silly, and I don't think Max made the Sox look silly either. I think both were just on their games. The defense determined today's game.

**catswithbats** · 04-14-2012, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by New_Age_X

What scares me about this loss is that Wilk is going tomorrow for us. I know he is my AAT and I should have confidence in him well I don't.

Two words: Gavin Floyd.

**catswithbats** · 04-14-2012, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by whitesox901

I think you have to give both starters their due. I think Peavy looks better just because the Tiger line-up is >>>>> than the Sox one, but I don't think Peavy made the Tigers' look silly, and I don't think Max made the Sox look silly either. I think both were just on their games. The defense determined today's game.

A voice of rea—a White Sox fan?

**Sven Draconian** · 04-14-2012, 10:08 AM

I'm really surprsied Boesch isn't getting more flak for his play in RF. I know it wasn't as GIF-able as Elmon's debacle, but I thought he pulled up on that soft liner to right and was running like he had UHAUL on the ball in the corner (where Raburn made a fantastic throw, but Avila did not block the plate)

**Yoda** · 04-14-2012, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mehm

Hm, I could've swore it was Delmon that had the two run homer to get the Tigers back in the game when Peavy was virtually unhittable...He blows defensively and there's no excuse for not having him be the DH...but I don't think his hitting is a problem...

Schlereth...Just dumbounds me why he's even on the team...

His hitting absolutely is a problem. If he gets 500 AB's this year and hits 20 HR's, what's he doing in the other 480 AB's? Not much. And that's a problem. Getting on base at a 30% clip is and always will be a problem. Unless you happen to provide great defense...

**Gehringer_2** · 04-14-2012, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

I'm really surprsied Boesch isn't getting more flak for his play in RF. I know it wasn't as GIF-able as Elmon's debacle, but I thought he pulled up on that soft liner to right and was running like he had UHAUL on the ball in the corner (where Raburn made a fantastic throw, but Avila did not block the plate)

He's made one really nice dive, but pulled up on at least two others. Could be given the game situation he didn't think a high risk play was worth the reward at that point, and you have to allow that maybe the tiger brain trust wants it that way, but yeah - I'd like to see a little more also.

I cut him some slack on the one in the corner as I think he was playing it to carom back out and it didn't to so he had stopped and had to restart.