04-04-11--DETROIT VS. BALTIMORE--3:05 PM

**Eric Cioe** · 04-04-2011, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

I don't ever want to see a drop of Bud Light again...

I haven't had a Bud Light in months, at least, and I'm right with you.

**The Truman Show** · 04-04-2011, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Eric Cioe

I haven't had a Bud Light in months, at least, and I'm right with you.

Wasn't even by choice, really. You're in St. Louis and people just hand you Bud Lights. It was difficult enough trying to get a regular Bud, much less beer that actually tastes like something.

**Tigers4F4** · 04-04-2011, 07:32 PM

No Yoda, I'm not from the past . . . just DownUnder (in Perth Western Australia - about as far away from Detroit as you could get!), which is fairly isolated from the mainstream baseball news media.

Okay, I have no excuse as I could do research on the internet.

**Greenwit** · 04-04-2011, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

Actually I believe the averages are a little misleading. Go into the detail charts and you will find that the same top velocity was still there most games in 2010 as in 2009, it's just that he didn't or couldn't throw his peak V very often as compared to 2009. Now today was different - he didn't get over 92 and not many there.

He just doesn't throw as hard as he used to. If you've paid attention to Porcello since he's come up, it's obvious his typical FB (read: average) is down in velocity, as it was in the spring and late last year. I find that very relevant.

**The Truman Show** · 04-04-2011, 07:37 PM

Twins are gonna be 1-3 too.

**Bondo** · 04-04-2011, 07:38 PM

Whoever scouted Porcello as having a mid ninties fastball that could touch 97-98 needs to be killed.

87-90 aint gonna cut it Ricky. He's looking more and more like John lannan than Roy Halladay. If he had at least a above average secondary pitch and great command sure, but my god.

**whitesox901** · 04-04-2011, 07:47 PM

Tigers will be fine. Team is too talented to not be at least average.

Also: its only 4 games.

**Jeff6851** · 04-04-2011, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by whitesox901

Tigers will be fine. Team is too talented to not be at least average.

Also: its only 4 games.

Says the guy whose team is the only one of the "Big 3" not sucking :p

**Titus Tiger** · 04-04-2011, 08:05 PM

**whitesox901** · 04-04-2011, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff6851

Says the guy whose team is the only one of the "Big 3" not sucking :p

Again, its only 4 games. Sox will be the Sox here soon enough and be out of it by early August while the Twins and Tigers battle for the division.

Its as a natural as the wind blowing or trees growing.

**catswithbats** · 04-04-2011, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by whitesox901

Again, its only 4 games. Sox will be the Sox here soon enough and be out of it by early August while the Twins and Tigers battle for the division.

Its as a natural as the wind blowing or trees growing.

You sound like a Tigers fan.

**Jeff6851** · 04-04-2011, 08:22 PM

Stomach bug holds several Tigers hostage | tigers.com: News

Some optimism for Wednesday?

**sabretooth** · 04-04-2011, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Titus Tiger

John Kricfalusi would be proud!

**Titus Tiger** · 04-04-2011, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff6851

Stomach bug holds several Tigers hostage | tigers.com: News

Some optimism for Wednesday?

If Boesch and Raburn stay healthy they will get some innings

I like how sure the trainer is of this:

Head athletic trainer Kevin Rand said that was the known extent of it. However, Valverde said "at least three or four" players had it.

**Lousluggage** · 04-04-2011, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff6851

But in 2008 we were expected to score 1000 and win the World Series, this year all the analysts are saying third. /splitting hairs

I say it reminds me of 2009. 1-3 start and the entire summer we hold first place.

I'm about to date myself... but seems to me the '87 Tigers had a pretty dismal start, but ended up winning the AL East in a pretty exciting race... don't ask me what happened after they won the AL East because I've blocked it out, for some reason....

OK, so it's probably not good thinking to compare the '11 team to the '87 team. Never mind.

Time for a ten game win streak!

**DubTownTigersFan** · 04-04-2011, 09:01 PM

I'm mildly concerned about the overall performance of our starters, but am not yet freaking out. Both parks they've pitched in thus far have been very hitter friendly and that has probably inflated the numbers (slightly.) If the team can make it through this first 19 game stretch around .500 and show some flashes of brilliance, I think it'll be a competitive season. There really is a lot of talent here!

**Hart** · 04-04-2011, 09:09 PM

I do not have a lot of patience for Porcello this year. We have other young pitchers who have upside and are close to the majors.

**pyrotigers** · 04-04-2011, 09:56 PM

I'm not too worried about the pitching, the offense on the other hand has the potential to be bad all year long

**Gehringer_2** · 04-04-2011, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Greenwit

He just doesn't throw as hard as he used to. If you've paid attention to Porcello since he's come up, it's obvious his typical FB (read: average) is down in velocity, as it was in the spring and late last year. I find that very relevant.

I absolutely agree is isn't throwing as hard on average. My point/question is: Has he lost the ability to throw hard, or has he been coached to stop throwing hard? I'm not so sure it is the former.

It looks to me like his max 4 seamer was hitting 95 in just about as much early in 2010 as in '2009. in fact on average, his 4 seamer didn't really change from '09 to '10. But it's clear from the chart that he wasn't throwing the 4 seamer as hard after the pre-ASB adjustment. On the other hand, he is throwing the slider way harder. Then finally, he changed speeds more with the 2 seamer in '10 than '09 - though who knows how much of that may be Pitch FX not resolving the pitches. Don't have the patience to run all that down.

So what? He needs to throw 4 seamer harder, the slider less hard? Supposedly he 'outgrew' that slower slider and that's part of his problem. Is he overcompensating throwing everything softer trying to get back?

4 seamer velocity chart

Slider velocity chart

Two seamer velocity chart

**Eric Cioe** · 04-04-2011, 10:17 PM

How is the soft slider more desirable? No one swung and missed at it, and you could see it coming. The harder it is, the more its flight path blends with the fastballs.

**Greenwit** · 04-04-2011, 10:38 PM

Yeah that slider velocity seems kinda strange in '09. Sliders in the high 70's? Are those really sliders or something else? That four seamer dropped second half of last year and the two seamer has lots of variance to it in the second half also. Anyway, interesting charts.

**Walt** · 04-04-2011, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by catswithbats

You sound like a Tigers fan.

Hell, he sounds like a Lions fan.

**john doe** · 04-05-2011, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by JonBenke

Am I missing something, Inge seems to have decent numbers.

Avila and Maggs are struggling, so why lump Inge in with them .. I'm confused.

+1

**john doe** · 04-05-2011, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

I'm not too worried about the pitching, the offense on the other hand has the potential to be bad all year long

+1 This has truly been the problem for the last few years.

**Gehringer_2** · 04-05-2011, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Eric Cioe

How is the soft slider more desirable? No one swung and missed at it, and you could see it coming. The harder it is, the more its flight path blends with the fastballs.

No, you are right, I'm misrembering, it was the sinker JL said he was throwing "too hard" last yr - but the charts don't particularly support that. There is JL for you..!!

**FloridaTigers** · 04-05-2011, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by john doe

+1 This has truly been the problem for the last few years.

Dombrowski's philosophy of "draft pitchers, sign free agent position players" has sort of failed to address the offensive issues here in recent years. Tigers have little to none depth in the farm system in the field. What good is it to have guys like Porcello, Turner, and Oliver come up and do great if you have no offense to give them support?

**pyrotigers** · 04-05-2011, 02:08 AM

Their is also an organizational issue with seemingly favoring players with raw power or speed and little plate discipline or contact ability

**ballmich** · 04-05-2011, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

I'm not too worried about the pitching, the offense on the other hand has the potential to be bad all year long

I'm concerned about them both. But the pitching sort of is what it is. There's not a lot that can be done to improve that. Offensively, we have quite a few cogs that we can move in and out to try to generate some runs by playing the hot hand. You might have to give up a little defense at times to do it.

**The Truman Show** · 04-05-2011, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by FloridaTigers

Dombrowski's philosophy of "draft pitchers, sign free agent position players" has sort of failed to address the offensive issues here in recent years. Tigers have little to none depth in the farm system in the field. What good is it to have guys like Porcello, Turner, and Oliver come up and do great if you have no offense to give them support?

The problem with DD's strategy is that it requires a lot of smart manuvering and steady contingencies to work. If you're going to draft pitchers, then they all better work and you should be spending few resources on them so that you can save your FA dollars for hitters. He started this plan when the Tigers had absolutely no foundation, so it took him 10 years before it's actually going to work like it's supposed to (starting in 2012 they will have 4 of the 5 current starters under team control plus Turner, Oliver, Nelson, Smyly, and a bunch of other dudes), and when you're doing that you can't blow 30 mil on Robertson, 30 on Willis, 50 on Bonderman, etc. or it's not going to work. I think over the next decade, the Tigers are going to be in great shape because of all the surplus arms they'll be able to deal for position talent, but if they insist on going back to the 06-08 habits again, hitting will still be a problem.