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MotownSports Fan
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    MotownSports Fan


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  1. I'll never understand the Ausmus hire. You spend that kind of payroll to win and then you hire a dubious choice for manager? Baffling and a while I don't behind the scenes stuff surrounding the DD departure, I can't help but think he'd have put himself in a much better position getting a manager with a proven record of success like Maddon.
  2. I'm pretty much on cloud nine after the sweep tonight. But I wanted to chime in here. I'm disgusted by the coverage - specifically by ESPN. TBS wasn't that bad. MLB Network is actually really good. I live in Florida, so any TV coverage, or debate, I listen to ESPN as the national outlet. And I actually EXPECT a bias toward the Yankees. But just wow on this one. Seriously. The story is so Yankees specific its out of control. I love it and it just gives me fuel to hate them more. They got stomped twice in two years. The story should be the Tigers are a better team. But its not. Its how the Yankees collapsed as if the other team didn't matter...I think I saw the first national headline with the word "Tiger" in it tonight...amazing.
  3. I don't buy Miggy's May is comparable to Trout's August and Sept. He hit .331, granted his power was down a little. Still had more hits and doubles in May than any other month. Every player has ups and downs, and I get that, but what Trout did to end the season merits attention. Especially the way he peaked then fell back to earth like a stock graph.
  4. And we aren't taking away Trout's season because it happened in July, right? But you could certainly say that he didn't show up like they needed him to when they were in a position to win the division. All that stuff accomplished in May, June, July is to (at least) get you in a position to get in the playoffs. And once you get in position, if you falter down the stretch, when the other guy didn't, are you really the most valuable? Miggy was a rock all year.
  5. Its fair to say the season is from April to Sept. when judging the MVP. So I accept that point. But lets pause a second. Forgetting the fact Trout didn't even play in April, is the fact that both teams needed their MVP candidate to play well down the stretch of no concern at all? Regardless of their divisions, both teams we're fighting for their playoff lives in August and especially Sept. Cabrera turned it on and literally led his team to the playoffs. Trout faded out for the most part and didn't play like an MVP candidate when his team needed him the most, hitting .257 in Sept. (and it wasn't just Sept). All this talk about WAR, if Trout had showed up in Aug and Sept like he did in May, June, July there is a much greater likelihood the Angels in the postseason. He just didn't do it as well, for as long, or as consistently as Miggy did month in and month out throughout the course of the season.
  6. Mr. Big, I have no idea. If you wanted to compare Trout and Miggy and see how valuable Trout's stolen bases were, I suppose you'd have to go back an analyze every single Trout stolen base and see how many ended up as a run. But not just a run. A run that was specifically created because of the stolen base. As opposed to a run that would have scored anyway, without the stolen base. So you'd have to go back and find out how many singles were produced while he was on second base (or in rare cases sac flys on third) that he scored on. And of course that value is only dependent on how good the hitters are behind him. Then you might have to also figure out the relative worth of pestering the pitcher with a lead, pitchouts and those kind of things. So basically, its subjective at some level. But in terms of the Trout vs Miggy debate, it would surprise me if more than half his stolen bases turned into runs that would have not otherwise have scored if he had not stolen the base. And even if they did should we equate the run with a completely self-generated Miggy HR? I get the Trout argument. I love players like Trout. They are extremely useful. Granderson in 2006 was an example, to a certain lesser extent at least, of a lead-off guy who really helped his team with a little pop and made highlight reel catches in CF. But like I said earlier in my Allen Iverson voice: we're talking base running and defense to counter a guy's commanding lead in HRs and RBIs. I find it fascinating, as I think 337 pointed out, that typically its traditionalists using base running and defense to defend a player rather than saber guys. But now its the opposite. The problem I have here though, is that the saber guys are trying to show base running and defense in numerical terms to trump unequivocally certain values like BA, HR totals, RBI totals. Or using projections to say "well if he would have played in April, or if he would have batted third". Well, he didn't and he didn't. And one in the hand is better than two in the bush.
  7. Perhaps I missed what you were getting at in your example, but just because somebody steals a base doesn't mean they score a run. A HR is a certain run. So to say 40 bases equals 10 runs doesn't equate to me.
  8. See, my gut agrees here. And I'll add: Anybody can play outfield as long as you can run a little...and even that is optional if you can hit (see Maggs). I don't buy any argument that says you can train a CF to play 3rd base just as good as CF. But I'll buy taking a 3rd baseman and having him play outfield. And CF just requires more speed. It is much harder to play 3rd base a high level. Plus, and I'm speaking on playing experience (which I guess may be flawed subjectiveness rather than numbers) but the hot corner got way more ball in there than CF.
  9. I don't see how you can count the bases and say its the same as a HR. Doesn't work like that in the real world.
  10. Cabrera has a considerably higher BA with RISP though. Especially with two outs..I want to say over .200 points higher with two outs. So its not just about opportunity.
  11. Is this the same situation as 1990 though? Henderson batted about 60 points higher than Fielder to go along with his other assets. Cabrera has got Trout in both BA and power categories.
  12. Now, maybe I just don't pay enough attention some years. But I can't ever remember an MVP debate where one guy had a 50+ RBI lead and 14 HR lead in an otherwise even BA race, and the retort was "he plays good defense". "he runs the bases well". Whaat Defense? We're talking base running? I mean listen, we're talking about baserunning. Not a home run...not a home run...BASE RUNNING. Base running, man. Base running. We ain't even talking about home runs. we talking about base running. (channeling my inner Allen Iverson here) Not concluding its a good or bad thing, really...just very weird to me. I don't see those things as offsetting. baserunning and defense are important but is it normally an MVP trump card over a commanding lead in RBIs and HRs?
  13. I don't want to dismiss saber but I think some certainly overvalue it. I suppose I speak from a certain place of relative ignorance compared to the more knowledgeable, but I also feel some tend to over rely on numbers giving them an answer on something so subjective as "most valuable". How do you value a double vs a single and a stolen base? How much do you value hitting over defense? I am quite sure people have tried to quantify this objectively...but at some point they use subjective numeric values. Any attempt to quantify how important defense is relative to offense can only be, at its base, a relative exercise in subjectivity. Same with valuing stolen bases. I've seen some of these Trout supporters on various forums try to tell me that RBIs, BA, and HRs are simply arbitrary stats put together. or that BA w/ runners in scoring position is flukey with small sample sizes. I have a hard time with that conclusion. These are the stats whose meanings are patently obvious. With the exception of walks, those stats are basically hitting (the actual hitting of the ball) in a nutshell. 1) How frequently you get on base by hitting the ball; 2) how clutch is your hitting when you make contact (in relation to BA/RISP I suppose) with runners relying on you to bat them in; and, 3) how often do you hit the ball so hard you drive yourself (and perhaps others) in with one swing of the bat? We all know hitting leads to base runners, and base runners turn into runs by hitting them in. Its the trifecta of hitting of which nearly every other hitting relevant hitting stat is based. Miggy wins here over Trout, yet so many discount the 55(!) RBI lead he has and 14 plus HR lead he has. And this can't be attributed simply to batting order, because Trout's BA with RiSP is significantly lower than Miggy's. Especially with two outs. Of course, this isn't to say Trout's other advantages in the field don't come into play. They discount Miggy's Sept by saying the award is given for the whole year, then turn around and say Trout shouldn't be penalized for missing the beginning of the season. Although I suppose its also fair to wonder how high his HRs and RBIs would be without missing the beginning. Ultimately, this argument is really far more than simply Trout vs Cabrera. Its about how you perceive the game. A CF who plays great defense, can steal bases, hits for avg., and has some pop are so rare. But the ultimate hitter who can do just about anything he wants at the plate is also a beautiful thing to behold. Who is more valuable i.e. Babe Ruth or Willie Mays? Hell if I know. I suppose I'd say Mays. But would I be right? It presupposes a good year for a pro to-typical five tool CF is always going to be more valuable than a 1B or 3B who absolutely crushed the ball all year. And I don't know if having presuppositions in an MVP vote is fair either. But it sure is fun to see people's arguments.
  14. The entire award is subjective. Not sure that is really a good rebuttal...
  15. Been following you, "Microline", since the days of ESPN w/Edman and Estrepe1 and some others. Just want to pop in and say, Congrats! Very very well earned.
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