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  1. #1
    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Default The Night of Long Knives, Re-visited?




    Playing over a period of time? Consider those who have been removed over the last year, as well as this quote from Dr. Jim Garrow, Nobel Peace Prize winner (but what does that mean really):

    On Monday, renowned author and humanitarian Dr. Jim Garrow made a shocking claim about what we can expect to see in Obama's second term.

    Garrow made the following Facebook post:

    “I have just been informed by a former senior military leader that Obama is using a new “litmus test” in determining who will stay and who must go in his military leaders. Get ready to explode folks. “The new litmus test of leadership in the military is if they will fire on US citizens or not.” Those who will not are being removed.

    So, who is the source?

    Garrow replied: “The man who told me this is one of America’s foremost military heroes.”
    Shock claim: Obama only wants military leaders who 'will fire on U.S. citizens' - Virginia Beach Conservative | Examiner.com

    EDIT: Garrow was a 2009 Nobel Peace Prize nominee, not winner, as stated above.
    Last edited by ballmich; 01-23-2013 at 10:58 AM.
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    I think this is all a little sensational. I do think there is evidence of some friction between the Obama civilian national security team and the military leadership, but I'm not sure about this talk of a "litmus test." If this "foremost military hero" comes forward with evidence or direct accounts, I'll entertain the possibility more seriously. I'm also racking my brain as to who this man could be and the two names that jump to mind are obviously McChrystal and Petraeus. I highly doubt it's Petraeus considering all the crap he is undoubtedly dealing with right now. On the other hand, McChrystal has a history of conflict with the Obama administration, so he would make some sense.

    Here's the Foreign Policy article describing the ousting of General James Mattis which apparently led to Dr. Garrow making the claim he did:

    The Obama administration
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    If that's true, that's some scary stuff. It'll certainly give fuel to the Glenn Beck types.
    ‎"For lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land."

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    A follow up seems to add credence to the original posting.....
    Garrow’s claim is even more explosive given that the country is in the throes of a national debate about gun control, with gun rights advocates keen to insist that the founders put the second amendment in the Constitution primarily as a defense against government tyranny.
    It also follows reports on Sunday that General James Mattis, head of the United States Central Command, “is being told to vacate his office several months earlier than planned.”Concerns over US troops being given orders to fire on American citizens in the event of mass gun confiscation first arose in 1995 when hundreds of Marines at 29 Palms, California were given a survey as part of an academic project by Navy Lieutenant Commander Ernest Guy Cunningham which asked the Marines if they would, “Fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the United States government.”The survey was subsequently leaked because many of the Marines who took it were shocked by the tone of the question.The US Military has clearly outlined innumerable civil emergency scenarios under which troops would be authorized to fire on U.S. citizens.In July 2012, the process by which this could take place was made clear in a leaked US Army Military Police training manual for “Civil Disturbance Operations” (PDF) dating from 2006. Similar plans were also outlined in an updated manual released in 2010 entitled FM 3-39.40 Internment and Resettlement Operations.
    The 2006 document outlines how military assets will be used to “help local and state authorities to restore and maintain law and order” in the event of mass riots, civil unrest or a declaration of martial law.
    On page 20 of the manual, rules regarding the use of “deadly force” in confronting “dissidents” on American soil are made disturbingly clear with the directive that a, “Warning shot will not be fired.”
    Given that second amendment advocates are now being depicted as dangerous terrorists by the federal government and local law enforcement, Garrow’s claim is sure to stoke controversy given that Americans are seeing their gun rights eviscerated while the federal government itself stockpiles billions of bullets.
    » Nobel Peace Prize Nominee: Obama Asks Military Leaders If They Will “Fire On US Citizens” Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
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    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Careful Huey, you linked to Infowars, soon no one will be able to trust anything that you post.

    There's no doubt that there's a purge happening, but to what end and for what purpose, we don't know. Doesn't make me feel very comfortable, though.
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    I think there is some doubt that a purge is coming, unless you mean in the indefinate future, in which case I would agree.

    But I would agree with that premise independent of the articles cited.

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    weird, now having a nobel nomination is somehow a plus for those on the right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    weird, now having a nobel nomination is somehow a plus for those on the right?
    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Playing over a period of time? Consider those who have been removed over the last year, as well as this quote from Dr. Jim Garrow, Nobel Peace Prize winner (but what does that mean really):
    It would appear not.

  9. #9
    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I think there is some doubt that a purge is coming, unless you mean in the indefinate future, in which case I would agree.

    But I would agree with that premise independent of the articles cited.
    I didn't say the purge is coming, it's been happening for about a year. There is no doubt of that, except for those that choose to look the other way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRamage View Post
    It would appear not.
    Noted that Ballmich speaks for "the right" according to RR.

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    So is this cat a winner or a nominee? This is a very important aspect of selectively using a the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority".

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    Taking into account Godwin's Law, isn't it kinda pointless to start an argument by invoking Hitler?
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    I didn't say the purge is coming, it's been happening for about a year. There is no doubt of that, except for those that choose to look the other way.
    Clearly using the word 'coming' instead of 'happening' completely rendered my point invalid.

    Excellent semantical win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtutiger View Post
    Taking into account Godwin's Law, isn't it kinda pointless to start an argument by invoking Hitler?
    That's exactly what Hitler would say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewsieg View Post
    That's exactly what Hitler would say.
    But what would Obama say?

    Wait, difference w/o distinction, nevermind.

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    Well.... As long as people don't act stupid like insisting he leave the WH after two terms there is nothing to look at here.
    Two words: Costa Rica.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwit View Post
    Well.... As long as people don't act stupid like insisting he leave the WH after two terms there is nothing to look at here.
    bingo
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  18. #18
    pfife's Avatar
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    LOL

    Any of you guys acting like you're being serious want to place a bet on whether Obama is president in Feb 2017?

  19. #19
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    I'll be happy to bet anyone that Obama leaves the WH after his second term is over.

    EDIT: Dammit, pfife beat me to it by a minute. Screw you, pfife.

  20. #20
    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Wow, a bunch of Mitt Romney's running around here. Sorry, we all don't have $10,000 to throw around on bets.
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Wow, a bunch of Mitt Romney's running around here. Sorry, we all don't have $10,000 to throw around on bets.
    Edited version: Maybe you would have $10,000 to bet on the likelihood on Obama leaving the White House by 2017 if you hadn't spent as much as you have on guns and ammo.
    Last edited by Mr. Bigglesworth; 01-23-2013 at 01:44 PM.

  22. #22
    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    That's probably because you wasted that much money on guns.
    And ammo, maybe. Yesterday I was at a tire shop getting new tires and overheard a conversation between a couple of the technicians. One had been in a car accident with his pregnant girlfriend. He just got a "large" settlement check from the insurance company, and the other guy asked him, "what are you going to do with the money, invest it?" His response was like "Hell no. I already went out and spent it all on guns."
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  23. #23
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    He comes once a generation. Once an epoch.....once an aeon.....what's longer than an aeon?



    .....yes he can. But it could take three terms. Maybe four.
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    I think you guys don't believe what you're saying.

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    I really hope people don't believe that POTUS intends to revoke the 2nd or the 22nd amendments.
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROMAD1 View Post
    I really hope people don't believe that POTUS intends to revoke the 2nd or the 22nd amendments.
    Hope is good. Misguided maybe, but good.

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    I think the chances of Obama staying for a third term is roughly as likely as Texas seceding in say ten years. And what an accounting mess that will be. All those payments for social welfare coming in, going out and those currently receiving it. But those and other details are something we can overcome. We can be good trading partners. We share the same language, currency and.......will have to think further on that. We part as friends, yes?
    Two words: Costa Rica.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwit View Post
    I think the chances of Obama staying for a third term is roughly as likely as Texas seceding in say ten years. And what an accounting mess that will be. All those payments for social welfare coming in, going out and those currently receiving it. But those and other details are something we can overcome. We can be good trading partners. We share the same language, currency and.......will have to think further on that. We part as friends, yes?
    Tosh
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    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  29. #29
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    Live your life for what it can be and not for what it was.

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    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
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    DNA won't be able to contain himself, but Alex Jones interviewed Dr. Jim Garrow:



    Scary stuff, and I believe it. However if you don't, if even 1-5% of the information is true, we are all in trouble.
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  31. #31
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    Now Afghanistan's latest commander and the future commander of European forces retires suddenly. The turnover at the top is unprecedented. Goodbye Gen. Allen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hueytaxi View Post
    Now Afghanistan's latest commander and the future commander of European forces retires suddenly. The turnover at the top is unprecedented. Goodbye Gen. Allen.
    there is something going on with the Petreus scandal that the President's political allies in the IT industry need to be investigated over.
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROMAD1 View Post
    there is something going on with the Petreus scandal that the President's political allies in the IT industry need to be investigated over.
    E mail from my cousin who spent 28 years active duty and retired from the USAF, He was on the star list and saw this coming 4 years ago as people were passed over who were the progressive leaders in Africa and Europe. He said he did his job and was never in a position to really rock any boats (or maybe it's wings in the USAF). He did not feel his tenure was questionable, but decided he was no longer happy in the leadership being inducted into unfamiliar territory. I only assume he was into surveillance or covert supply as he will not describe his actual duties. He is quite angry these days.
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    ballmich is online now MotownSports Fan
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    Some of these were valid, I'm sure, but this is a lot of top brass to turn over.

    CURRENT COUNT: 45 Generals/Admirals & High-Ranking Military Officials Removed By Obama

    1-General David Petraeus

    2-Gen. John Allen US commander

    3-US Army General Carter Ham

    4-Gen. William "Kip" Ward.

    5- Brigadier Gen. Jeffery A Sinclair

    6-Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford

    7- Rear Adm. Charles M. Gaouette

    8-Navy Cmdr. Joseph Darlak

    9- LTC Paula Broadwell

    10-Marine General James Mattis

    11-Gen. David McKiernan

    12-Gen. Stanley McChrystal

    13-Marine Gen. James "Hoss" Cartwright

    14-Navy Vice Adm. Tim Giardina

    15-Maj. Gen. Charles M. Gurganus

    16- Maj. Gen. Gregg A. Sturdevant

    19-Maj. Gen. Michael Carey

    20- Navy Cmdr. Michael Vannak Khem Misiewicz

    21-Army Gen. Keith Alexander, commander of U.S. Cyber Command, director of the National Security Agency and chief of the Central Security Service

    22-NSA Deputy Chief John "Chris" Inglis

    23-Col. Daren Margolin has been relieved as head of Security Battalion at Marine Corps Base Quantico

    24-Cmdr. Martin Arriola, commanding officer of the USS Porter

    25- Capt. Antonio Cardoso, commanding officer of Training Support Center San Diego

    26- Capt. James CoBell, commanding officer of Oceana Naval Air Station's Fleet Readiness Center

    27- Cmdr. Joseph E. Darlak skipper of the USS Vandegrift

    28-Cmdr. Franklin Fernandez, commanding officer of Naval Mobile Construction Battalion

    29- Rear Adm. Charles M. Gaouette was replaced as commanding officer of the aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis pending the outcome of an internal investigation into allegations of inappropriate judgment

    30- Cmdr. Ray Hartman, commanding officer of the amphibious dock-landing ship Fort McHenry

    31-Cmdr. Jon Haydel, commanding officer of the amphibious transport dock USS San Diego

    32- Cmdr. Diego Hernandez, commanding offer of the ballistic-missile submarine USS Wyoming, relieved Feb. 4 after he was convicted in an admiral’s mast of dereliction of duty for mishandling classified materials.

    33-Cmdr. Lee Hoey, commanding officer of the Navy Drug Screening Laboratory, San Diego

    34- Cmdr. Dennis Klein, commander of the submarine USS Columbia

    35-Capt. Marcia "Kim" Lyons, commander of Naval Health Clinic New England

    36- Capt. Chuck Litchfield was relieved from command of the USS Essex

    37- Capt. Robert Marin, commander of the USS Cowpens

    38- Capt. Sean McDonell, commander of Seabee reserve unit Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 14 in Jacksonville, Fla.

    39- Cmdr. Corrine Parker

    40- Capt. Lisa Raimondo, commander of Naval Health Clinic Patuxent River, Md.,

    41- Capt. Jeffrey Riedel, program manager of the Littoral Combat Ship program, "temporarily reassigned"

    42- Cmdr. Sara Santoski, commanding officer of the Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron

    43- Maj. Gen. Ralph Baker, Army

    44- Blaze Sources: Obama Purging Military Commanders Brigadier Gen. Bryan Roberts, Army

    45- Lt. Gen. David Holmes Huntoon Jr, Army
    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

  35. #35
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    What's the source for this information?

    And is this more, less, or relatively the same as other Presidents in the same five-year period of time?

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    That list is not even current. 9 generals so far this year. Unprecedented with troops in combat. Every major command.

    Edit: I see Carey is on the list. As far as I can tell he was the most recent. One of two fired/replaced in charge of our nuclear arsenal(s). And my source is a subscription to the DoD Daily bulletin, which includes bulletins from all major commands.
    U.S. Department of Defense <govdelivery@subscriptions.dod.mil>
    Last edited by hueytaxi; 10-24-2013 at 08:26 PM.
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    The War Within the U.S. Army - TIME
    Received my paper copy of Time today and they talked about how top heavy the Army is. For example, since the end of the Cold War the number of soldiers per officer has dropped 45%. Not to mention that all of the military is hurting right now because of the 10% budget cuts due to the sequester. Also talks about if the Army should be moving faster or at all to face terrorist threats or the Soviets rolling over the German plains. The link attached requires a subscription to see the whole thing, but I think it probably gives a more realistic description of what is happening with the Army officer core than the long knives scenario.

  38. #38
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    Boy, the right will try anything, won't they?
    World Series or Bust. Guess What? Bust........again.

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    The right are the ones bringing it into the open. We have not been discussing decreasing the officer core in general, we are discussing the purge of commanders. The realignment or firing of almost every military CEO
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    Anotherone bites the dust. Thank you for your service and loyalty to your country, Col. Eric Tilley. That make ten for the year.

    According to U.S. Army Japan, Col. Eric Tilley was suspended from his job by Maj. Gen. James C. Boozer Sr., commander of U.S. Army Japan and I Corps (Forward) for a “lack of confidence” based on the results of an inquiry.

    A spokesman for U.S. Army Japan, Maj. Kevin Toner, would not elaborate on what prompted a “lack of confidence,” saying it would be “inappropriate to make public the allegations because the investigation did not lead to findings of criminal misconduct.”
    Read more at ‘Purge surge’: Obama fires another commander

    Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem.

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