TriHealth fires employees for not getting Flu Shot

[ballmich]

TriHealth fires 150 employees for not getting flu shots | Cincinnati - WLWT Home

CINCINNATI — One of Cincinnati’s largest employers fired approximately 150 employees Wednesday for failing to get a required flu shot.

I'd be one of the 150, if I worked there, as I refuse to get the flu shot. Some people have very serious side effects from these shots. My brother works with a lady who is partially paralyzed after getting the flu shot, and permanantly uses a walker to get around now. And she's middle aged, so she's got a long agonizing life as a result of what is billed as an innoculous shot for which the side effects are rarely if ever given or discussed with the patient.

[Nolan]

They work in the healthcare field. If they are in contact with patients, they MUST get a flu shot. The end.

[mtutiger]

I'd be one of the 150

OK... good luck finding work.

[Lousluggage]

Are there exceptions for people who are allergic to eggs? Just wondering.

I'm curious about the person who became partially paralyzed after receiving the shot as I haven't heard of this happening before. I suspect it's something that very rarely happens, if it is in fact due to receiving the flu shot at all.

[DetroitCity313]

Are there exceptions for people who are allergic to eggs? Just wondering.

I'm curious about the person who became partially paralyzed after receiving the shot as I haven't heard of this happening before. I suspect it's something that very rarely happens, if it is in fact due to receiving the flu shot at all.

Yeah, is there any study by scientists that can confirm the link between flu shots and such horrible reactions?

[Lousluggage]

I looked it up, and this is what I found:

CDC - Seasonal Influenza (Flu) - Questions and Answers - Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS)

[hueytaxi]

I would be out also. On the rare occasion I get the flu, it runs it's course in 2-3 days. After two consecutive years of flu shots and being bedridden following the shots for a full week, I said no more.

[zimm]

apparently getting a flu shot reduces your chance of suffering a stroke or heart attack by 50%.. fwiw, i will be getting one because i work in schools with lots of sick little kids.

The Shot That Prevents Heart Attacks | Yahoo! Health

[Corky]

There is a new version that is sans eggs. Saw that on the news last week.

[Chopper]

My wife had an allergic reaction (throat and tongue swelling) a few years ago from the flu shot. She has developed some food allergies later in her life and the past few years. The allergy doctor doesn't know why she had an reaction but he says to never get it again. She would be too paranoid to get one even sans eggs because we don't know why she reacted as she doesn't have an egg allergy (allergic to chicken though). Anaphylactic shock isn't something you take chances on. She had thoughts of becoming a nurse but because a flu shot (and others) is almost a must in that field, it ruled it out. The Dr. said the best thing is for everyone else around her to be sure and get the flu shot. Anytime you introduce something like this in your body the side effects can be bad. I have never had an issue but I understand why people don't get the shot.

[hueytaxi]

Hope this is true, but I would hold off until it is published and reviewed or a corresponding conclusion is reached. Recall Thalidomide. While it has found beneficial use currently, it was once thought to be the best agent for morning sickness in expectant mothers.

[Joe Gahona]

My previous employer had a health fair every year where flu shots were offered. The two years I got the shot, I got the flu. The two years I didn't get the shot, I didn't get the flu. Not a great experience with this shot.

And I'm with Huey. It runs its course in a few days anyway. What employers should do is fire people who come to work obviously sick. They're the ones making others lose work.

[djhutch]

My wife works in healthcare, and their office makes them where a badge or a sticker of some kind to let people know whether they've had the shot or not.

[Joe Gahona]

BTW, why is this in the political forum? Is this part of Obamacare?

[RedRamage]

Hope this is true, but I would hold off until it is published and reviewed or a corresponding conclusion is reached. Recall Thalidomide. While it has found beneficial use currently, it was once thought to be the best agent for morning sickness in expectant mothers.

Not to derail the thread, but part of the issue with Thalidomide wasn't the lack of understanding that something that was okay for the mother could end up being a problem with the unborn baby.

[RedRamage]

BTW, why is this in the political forum? Is this part of Obamacare?

Not surprising in my opinion. I'm sure the question will turn political very quickly. For instance:

1. Would Obamacare make this mandatory for everyone?
2. Does an employee have the right to sue a company that forces them to take a pill/drug/vaccine?
3. What rights does a company have to try and force their employees to engage in certainly health care options?
3a. Do those right extend to things outside of work? For example, can I fire a person who smokes because they are more likely to have sick days and/or cause a bigger expense with the health care plan?

[Greenwit]

They work in the healthcare field. If they are in contact with patients, they MUST get a flu shot. The end.

Being in the healthcare field, my employer also requires this. If you have a known allergic reaction I think you should get a pass unless you are in regular patient contact. Otherwise I suppose they are entitled to call the shots :-p Have fun finding another job in this economy.

[ballmich]

OK... good luck finding work.

There would be no need to find work. Public assistance provides a safety net which I can milk indefinately.

[mtutiger]

There would be no need to find work. Public assistance provides a safety net which I can milk indefinately.

Of course, you're political ideology has placed you in a 1 ft^3 box in which you would hold out on any safety net, being such a principled conservative and all...

How has Santa Clarita Transit been treating you, btw?

[ballmich]

apparently getting a flu shot reduces your chance of suffering a stroke or heart attack by 50%.. fwiw, i will be getting one because i work in schools with lots of sick little kids.

The Shot That Prevents Heart Attacks | Yahoo! Health

It also makes you 10x more likely to develop Alzeimher's or Parkinson's, if you get the shot consistantly over a period of time, than someone who doesn't.

[mtutiger]

Also curious is the fact that OP is a believer in free market principles, yet is complaining about the right of a private company to fire employees for not getting a flu shot.

[ballmich]

Of course, you're political ideology has placed you in a 1 ft^3 box in which you would hold out on any safety net, being such a principled conservative and all...

How has Santa Clarita Transit been treating you, btw?

I'm more than willing to let the pinkos and facists take care of me until their system collapses on itself. My ideology says if they are that stupid to play into the hand of capitalists in that way, so be it.

I like to drive to work during the holidays. I'll give you a bus system update in January.

[ballmich]

Also curious is the fact that OP is a believer in free market principles, yet is complaining about the right of a private company to fire employees for not getting a flu shot.

Wrong. Show me where I said that a private company couldn't fire employees for not gettinig a flu shot. I said I wouldn't get the flu shot, if I was in that situation. That is all.

[shabba4detroit]

Had an egg allergy. Don't get the flu shot. My mother, who was off the shot for years after the 1970s swine flu scare, gets them now. Hearing that there was an egg-free variety, I would consider it.

[Greenwit]

There would be no need to find work. Public assistance provides a safety net which I can milk indefinately.

Ah......good call. I was thinking retro. :-)

[Oblong]

For example, can I fire a person who smokes because they are more likely to have sick days and/or cause a bigger expense with the health care plan?

I believe you could if you made it a policy at some point that everybody had to be non smokers. I know companies can refuse to hire non smokers and some places even make you take a nicone test to prove it.

[pfife]

I got a flu shot last year, and didn't get the flu last year. I didn't get a flu shot before then, and rarely ever got the flu.

The real issue w/ the flu shot for me was the poor pharmacist trying to find a spot on my arm that wasn't completely rock-solid muscle in which to administer the injection.

[mtutiger]

I'm more than willing to let the pinkos and facists take care of me until their system collapses on itself. My ideology says if they are that stupid to play into the hand of capitalists in that way, so be it.

Loonspuddery. Additionally, if this is what you believe, then why do you currently have a job?

Wrong. Show me where I said that a private company couldn't fire employees for not gettinig a flu shot. I said I wouldn't get the flu shot, if I was in that situation. That is all.

OK... have fun drawing unemployment and/or finding a job.

[ballmich]

Between corporate interests like TriHealth that want to shoot themselves in the foot, and Obamacare, they are ushering in a new form of cash-pay and/or unregulated healthcare alternatives. You can now see cash pay clinics popping up everywhere.

And you are now starting to see homeschooling groups, and other local networks, pool resources to take down x-ray and dental equipment from places like Ebay. Some used, some new. Some from China and other places. All good working condition. It's not that hard to get training on this stuff, particularly to fill basic services. And if you push people out of the industry, for sake of a flu shot, all the more tranined people who will be available to train others or use the equipment for a reasonble fee. To each their own. The market always finds a way. Always.

[shabba4detroit]

The real issue w/ the flu shot for me was the poor pharmacist trying to find a spot on my arm that wasn't completely rock-solid muscle in which to administer the injection.

Now, that's loonspuddery! LOL

[Oblong]

They call the cops on me at CVS when I pulled my pants down to get the shot.

[ballmich]

Loonspuddery. Additionally, if this is what you believe, then why do you currently have a job?

Because I haven't been fired for refusing to get the flu shot. It's never been mandated where I've worked, so it's never been an issue.

[pfife]

They call the cops on me at CVS when I pulled my pants down to get the shot.

I hate it when people call the cops when I'm just doing my Roger Clemens impersonation

[mtutiger]

Because I haven't been fired for refusing to get the flu shot. It's never been mandated where I've worked, so it's never been an issue.

No, I mean, if you actually believe this statement....

I'm more than willing to let the pinkos and facists take care of me until their system collapses on itself.

Then why do you choose to have a job?

[T&P_Fan]

They work in the healthcare field. If they are in contact with patients, they MUST get a flu shot. The end.

Not true. I work in a health clinic and have contact with patients. I refuse to have a flu shot, I won't risk some of the serious side effects that have happened.

Additionally, the flu shot only contains the must common flu strains--usually two or three--that researchers predict will be the most common the following year. And the flu shot is only 70% effective against just those strains. There are 100's of strains of the flu, getting the shot provides minimal benefit, if any.

[ballmich]

Some interesting discussion:

[qsilvr2531]

Not true. I work in a health clinic and have contact with patients. I refuse to have a flu shot, I won't risk some of the serious side effects that have happened.

Additionally, the flu shot only contains the must common flu strains--usually two or three--that researchers predict will be the most common the following year. And the flu shot is only 70% effective against just those strains. There are 100's of strains of the flu, getting the shot provides minimal benefit, if any.

Assuming the match is correct (meaning assuming the predicted most common flu strains are correct) the flu shot is 70% effective in general when considering all strains, not just 70% effective against the most common strains (for healthy adults). They are less effective if the match isn't correct (still typically on the order of 50% or so).

Do you work with infants and/or the elderly?

[T&P_Fan]

Assuming the match is correct (meaning assuming the predicted most common flu strains are correct) the flu shot is 70% effective in general when considering all strains, not just 70% effective against the most common strains (for healthy adults). They are less effective if the match isn't correct (still typically on the order of 50% or so).

This is incorrect. In scenarios where the match is correct the effective rate is still 70%, and drops dramatically for a non-match.

Do you work with infants and/or the elderly?

Fortunately, no. But I know we don't have a flu shot mandate for our clinicians.

[Nolan]

Not true. I work in a health clinic and have contact with patients. I refuse to have a flu shot, I won't risk some of the serious side effects that have happened.

Additionally, the flu shot only contains the must common flu strains--usually two or three--that researchers predict will be the most common the following year. And the flu shot is only 70% effective against just those strains. There are 100's of strains of the flu, getting the shot provides minimal benefit, if any.

There are not 100s of strains of flu during any given flu season in America. Obviously the efficacy of the flu shot varies from year to year. The point of the flu shot isn't for those with healthy immune systems (like yourself I assume), it is for the elderly and young who can easily die from the flu. Someone who provides healthcare or is in common contact with elderly or the very young should be receiving the flu shot or they are putting those people at risk.

[qsilvr2531]

This is incorrect. In scenarios where the match is correct the effective rate is still 70%, and drops dramatically for a non-match.



Fortunately, no. But I know we don't have a flu shot mandate for our clinicians.

A scenario where the match is correct just means that they've correctly matched the chosen strains in a given year to the most common strains for that year. In that scenario, controlled trials show the effective rate to be 70% in healthy adults. But the controlled trial does not limit to cases where the strain the person was exposed to matches one of the strains in the shot. It would be impossible to even conduct that kind of randomized trial.

Quick link from the CDC website.

CDC - Seasonal Influenza (Flu) - Flu Vaccine Effectiveness

And another link with more detailed data at different age groups:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/fea...uments/flu.pdf

I would never let me infant be treated at a clinic that doesn't require flu shots (well I wouldn't have when i had an infant. My kids are largely past the point where the danger is severe enough for me to worry about it anymore).