Nearly got into a fist fight over Detroit

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 01:04 PM

Co-worker here in the DC area was attacking Detroit and American cars in general. Got a little heated with him and used the F-bomb to let him know where he could stow his opinion. I wonder how many of my fellow Detroit ex-pats go through this as well.

**ballmich** · 08-10-2012, 01:14 PM

I hope you were throwing some Emminem in the background, just to let him know you weren't playin.

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

I hope you were throwing some Emminem in the background, just to let him know you weren't playin.

too many Ms...but might as well have been playin' in my ears at the time.

**hueytaxi** · 08-10-2012, 01:34 PM

We remember Detroit's great cars and the lemons, but seldom discuss the garbage inbetween. And not to pick on Detroit, far too many American cars over the years have been horribly put together. Today I think they can compete properly in a world market. Rack and pinion steering, self adjusting shocks, anti-sway bars and better tires all contributed to safer, better handling cars.

**jonjd** · 08-10-2012, 01:35 PM

What was he saying? I hear it a lot, but I have become comfortable enough in my own knowledge to deflect the uninformed and ludicrous opinions I hear.

**drownwithyou** · 08-10-2012, 01:36 PM

I get pretty offended and defensive, but I don't think anyone could bring me to blows over it. A New Yorker tried to do a bit of this in the sports book at Caesars Palace yesterday, but I happened to be sitting with a group of drunk guys from Detroit (coincidence, I didn't know them). I just told him to sit on it, but the drunk guys took care of the rest. I thought there was going to be a full out brawl in the sports book, but it got diffused.

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 01:45 PM

There will never be another Detroit car and Detroit is a pit of hell to a large section of the typical know-nothing I encounter.

I keep thinking about how after the GM bankruptcy restructuring how a certain anti-Detroit person suddenly changed their tune for a while. Alas, that noise is back.

And what should they know of America who only Toyota know?

the irony about Chrysler is that it was a European state-backed firm to rescue a US company...an now with Europe down the tank...its two drowning companies.

**TheCouga** · 08-10-2012, 02:30 PM

I overheard a bunch of East Coast lawyers talking smack about Detroit last weekend at a conference. I've never lived in Detroit myself, but it really turned me off. Detroit's not the only Midwestern city people talk smack about. Cleveland, St. Louis, and Milwaukee get a lot of flack as well. I almost said something, but the guys looked like some silver-haired insecure pricks, so I figured it wouldn't be worth the drama.

**Oblong** · 08-10-2012, 02:48 PM

Frankly I'm tired of Detroit.... I'll stick up for the area but I'm sick of the leaders and the voters.... they deserve what they get. They want want want want from the rest of the state and the area but God forbid they give up anything. I've been hearing about the "turnaround" for almost 20 years, sine Archer. Anytime you get more than a thousand people down there it's like big news... "Look, we almost look like a real city...." It's a **** hole.

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Oblong

Frankly I'm tired of Detroit.... I'll stick up for the area but I'm sick of the leaders and the voters.... they deserve what they get. They want want want want from the rest of the state and the area but God forbid they give up anything. I've been hearing about the "turnaround" for almost 20 years, sine Archer. Anytime you get more than a thousand people down there it's like big news... "Look, we almost look like a real city...." It's a **** hole.

The City itself? Its insanely badly led or has been. 20 years? its been longer than that.

Still, ITS GO TIME OBLONG!!!! Put em up!

(kidding)

**John_Brian_K** · 08-10-2012, 03:04 PM

I defend the city all the time, but mostly only from the outsiders...those not in the state itself. When I get together with friends/family who live in the area we bash the city all the time, but in a big brother kind of way. There is a HUGE difference.

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

I defend the city all the time, but mostly only from the outsiders...those not in the state itself. When I get together with friends/family who live in the area we bash the city all the time, but in a big brother kind of way. There is a HUGE difference.

EXACTLY!

**Oblong** · 08-10-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

The City itself? Its insanely badly led or has been. 20 years? its been longer than that.

Still, ITS GO TIME OBLONG!!!! Put em up!

(kidding)

oh absolutely it's been longer... but when Archer was elected you started to hear about it turning around. But much like soccer taking off in the US.....

I really do fear there will be dangerous riots again.... it's that bad.

**shabba4detroit** · 08-10-2012, 03:20 PM

I mostly defend Detroit from the suburbanites who think the region would be better off without it. It wouldn't. Even with all the flaws and corruption.

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Oblong

oh absolutely it's been longer... but when Archer was elected you started to hear about it turning around. But much like soccer taking off in the US.....

I really do fear there will be dangerous riots again.... it's that bad.

I feel like there are some good things happening. DC stands as an example of what blind greed can do to turn around the urban core of a major metropolis when the corrupt local officials are swept aside by the monied interests.

Mind you all the idiocy moved to the North East suburbs of DC and is fighting a rear-guard to get back in power in the district.

**Mr. DNA** · 08-10-2012, 03:30 PM

Detroit will turn around once sea levels go up a meter.

Speaking of fist fights over Detroit, go to a Tigers-White Sox game at "the Cell".

**Gehringer_2** · 08-10-2012, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Oblong

oh absolutely it's been longer... but when Archer was elected you started to hear about it turning around. But much like soccer taking off in the US.....

I really do fear there will be dangerous riots again.... it's that bad.

If you really want a date, I'd pick two (and not the riot), they'd be the filing of the school deseg case and the beginning of the city income tax. That's first really opened the floodgate of suburban migration. And that loss of property tax base coupling with the slow exodus of small business to avoid the income tax have made it one long slow decline into an ever increasing economic hole since.

Possibly the EM process for both the city gov and the schools, and the switch to ward voting could be the signs of the bottom - but if the State goes weak in the knees it could just end up another missed opportunity.

**DetroitCity313** · 08-10-2012, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Oblong

Frankly I'm tired of Detroit.... I'll stick up for the area but I'm sick of the leaders and the voters.... they deserve what they get. They want want want want from the rest of the state and the area but God forbid they give up anything. I've been hearing about the "turnaround" for almost 20 years, sine Archer. Anytime you get more than a thousand people down there it's like big news... "Look, we almost look like a real city...." It's a **** hole.

Stick up for what area? You seem to have horrible feelings for all of us in Detroit, so what exactly are you sticking up for?

Also, what do you want the city to give up?

**Oblong** · 08-10-2012, 04:36 PM

give up the right to make their own decisions because they've shown through decades of incompetence the inability to do so. Now it looks like the water department was another institution that was used to rape the suburbs.

I'll stick up for the surrounding areas of Detroit, those that help fund it and keep it afloat with absolutely no appreciation from it's leaders and many if not most citizens.

**Corky** · 08-10-2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

I just told him to sit on it.

Wow. Are you the Fonz?

**Antrat** · 08-10-2012, 05:13 PM

I put down Detroit all the time for the same reasons Oblong stated, but I get pissed when an outsider attacks the city.
I was born elsewhere but I grew up and lived inside the city limits for 25 years, so I can say "outsiders" even though I no longer live there.

I put this in the same category as family. I can call my brother an *******, but when somebody not related says it, my hackles will get raised.

**belcherboy** · 08-10-2012, 05:26 PM

I think Detroit is like a crazy brother to me. I'll complain about him, rip into him, be upset for the dumb choices he constantly makes, but if someone from the outside starts to mess with him, then I'll stick up for him.

I've lived in Georgia for just over 4 years now. Back around 2000, I started working in the city. It really opened my eyes to the poor leadership they have in the city. I considered moving downtown when all the new condo's were being built on the other side of 75 across from Comerica Park. Then, I got first hand views of how Kwame ran things, and it really made me upset. When he got re-elected, I wanted nothing to do with living in Detroit any longer. I even stopped working there.

I will still argue over Detroit with those down south that criticize it, but unfortunately the city has gotten what it deserves. They continued to re-elect terrible counsel members and provided a clearly corrupt Kwame Kilpatrick the opportunities to rape and pillage the tax coffers. I want to see it succeed, but I'm not so sure that the majority of Detroit citizens will elect people that can make it happen. We shall see if things will change....I have loved the Dirty D for over 30 years now!

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 06:12 PM

machine politics works for a lot of people.

**shabba4detroit** · 08-10-2012, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

If you really want a date, I'd pick two (and not the riot), they'd be the filing of the school deseg case and the beginning of the city income tax. That's first really opened the floodgate of suburban migration. And that loss of property tax base coupling with the slow exodus of small business to avoid the income tax have made it one long slow decline into an ever increasing economic hole since.

Possibly the EM process for both the city gov and the schools, and the switch to ward voting could be the signs of the bottom - but if the State goes weak in the knees it could just end up another missed opportunity.

I blame the Interstates.

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

I blame the Interstates.

Actually this is something should be very proud of. Our DC traffic is made worse by the Luddites who think that freeways cause people to sell things cheaper and move more efficiently and that those are bad things.

**Oblong** · 08-10-2012, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

I blame the Interstates.

I think this is right. In the 40's and 50's as the WWII generation returned they wanted their new 1000-1200 sq foot homes in Dearborn, Harper Woods, Warren, etc. Their kids didn't grow up in Detroit so when their turn came, they wanted to move further out to get away. Being auto industry driven with plants and facilities spread out to the south/west/north/northeast and the interstates it gave people more options. Just think about where our auto plants are/were located. You had things down in Woodhaven, Trenton, Willow Run, Livonia, Wixon, Pontiac, (even Flint), Warren, Sterling Hts... not to mention Dearborn. THat's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Draw a 30 mile radius around those places and you have a lot of options. Plus I think being such a great state like Michigan people may have wanted to be closer to their cottage Up North or in Muskegon or Irish Hills so they'd sacrifice the daily drive to work if it meant being a half hour closer to the weekend getaway place.

I live and work in Dearborn and I'm amazed at the # of people who willingly drive 45 min to an hour into the office each day, all so they can live on a lake. They leave work at 6 and get home after 6 but I guess it's worth it.... I'm home at 4:30 and leave at 7:15....

**NeedMoreLike84** · 08-10-2012, 08:24 PM

I think Detroit is a once great city. It looks awesome and has a great history. But right now, I can't blame people for bad mouthing it. Not that I don't love it but if you don't go down there and see the specific ways it is improving (and how can you blame a non-michagander for not doing it) then you will not be impressed by it.

As for the cars I am a 100% true-blue fan of this state. But for too long the cars were absolute crap. The trucks and SUVs were top notch. But the cars were crap and they were very, very short sighted. it is much better now.

**hueytaxi** · 08-10-2012, 08:56 PM

Houses and cottages on lakes was only a dream to the blue collar worker down here and many resented their northern relatives standard of living over theirs. They had migrated for warmer winters at the expense of high wage union jobs. They settled for a used Honda or Toyota outside their trailer further hurting the heart of the USA auto industry. After purchasing one of these used foreign cars, they didn't want to go back to the ill handling and underpowered Pintos, Vegas, K-cars and the like.
Still when I think of the great contributions of our older cities, Detroit come to mind first. NYC gave us the entry portal, Philadelphia the symbols of Freedom and Detroit the rapid growth of industrial might. My first new car was produced in Willow Run.

**drownwithyou** · 08-10-2012, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Corky

Wow. Are you the Fonz?

I'm too young to get this, never watched Happy Days.

**Oblong** · 08-10-2012, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by hueytaxi

Houses and cottages on lakes was only a dream to the blue collar worker down here and many resented their northern relatives standard of living over theirs. They had migrated for warmer winters at the expense of high wage union jobs. They settled for a used Honda or Toyota outside their trailer further hurting the heart of the USA auto industry. After purchasing one of these used foreign cars, they didn't want to go back to the ill handling and underpowered Pintos, Vegas, K-cars and the like.
Still when I think of the great contributions of our older cities, Detroit come to mind first. NYC gave us the entry portal, Philadelphia the symbols of Freedom and Detroit the rapid growth of industrial might. My first new car was produced in Willow Run.

My family is originally from TN and many moved up here during the manufacturing boom. Some came up during the depression, both of my grandfathers came up then went back down in the 30's and 40's.... oth3rs like my dad came back in the 50's. I can tell you there is definite resentment among those who stayed.... especially to those who came up here, worked 30 years, then went back to TN to live off the low tax and cheap land. It's almost a Hatfield/McCoy type thing. And my cousins won't buy Detroit cars because of the UAW when they have friends working at Honda/Toyota/Hyundai for less.

I understand both sides. You have to do what you have to do.

**Gehringer_2** · 08-10-2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Oblong

I think this is right. In the 40's and 50's as the WWII generation returned they wanted their new 1000-1200 sq foot homes in Dearborn, Harper Woods, Warren, etc. Their kids didn't grow up in Detroit so when their turn came, they wanted to move further out to get away. Being auto industry driven with plants and facilities spread out to the south/west/north/northeast and the interstates it gave people more options. Just think about where our auto plants are/were located. You had things down in Woodhaven, Trenton, Willow Run, Livonia, Wixon, Pontiac, (even Flint), Warren, Sterling Hts... not to mention Dearborn. THat's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Draw a 30 mile radius around those places and you have a lot of options. Plus I think being such a great state like Michigan people may have wanted to be closer to their cottage Up North or in Muskegon or Irish Hills so they'd sacrifice the daily drive to work if it meant being a half hour closer to the weekend getaway place.

I live and work in Dearborn and I'm amazed at the # of people who willingly drive 45 min to an hour into the office each day, all so they can live on a lake. They leave work at 6 and get home after 6 but I guess it's worth it.... I'm home at 4:30 and leave at 7:15....

No question the interstates drove the growth of surburbia in general nationally, but I think maybe actually a little less so in Detoit than in some places. 94 and the Lodge/696 had already been there for quite a while before the big exodus started to the west, and I think I-75 wasn't completed until well after the exodus was underway. The exodus for sure followed where the road were, but I think some of the other factors were more responsible for starting the exodus in Detroit's case than the presence of the roads. MHO anyway.

**Oblong** · 08-10-2012, 09:36 PM

It could also be that being auto industry driven meant more people had cars and the ability to live that far.

The riots too. I've heard anecdotes that people just up and left immediately and didn't look back...

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 09:42 PM

the '43 riots were worse

**clark1mt** · 08-10-2012, 10:15 PM

Climate change will probably bring Detroit (and Michigan) back to prosperity, along with the rest of the Great Lakes region, as the West and Southwest run out of water. Want a green lawn? Live in Michigan, where you can keep your grass alive. Want your drinking water to cost less than gas? Live in Michigan.

**chasfh** · 08-10-2012, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. DNA

Detroit will turn around once sea levels go up a meter.

Speaking of fist fights over Detroit, go to a Tigers-White Sox game at "the Cell".

Maye this was supposed to be a funny, but Ive been going to cellphone park for 17 seasons and have never encountered any fistfights between Tigers and White Sox fans. I go to a dozen or more Sox games a year and I wear my Tiger hat to every one, Tiger game or not. I sing out "root root root for the TIGERS!!!" at every stretch and no one says a word. One time, a guy at the concession stand said some rude thing to me, maybe five or six years ago, but he was a druken lout, so I smirked and ignored hm, and nothing more came of it.

Maybe it's you.

**Oblong** · 08-10-2012, 10:25 PM

Speaking of.... I was surprised last week in Chicago at how much closer the Cell was to downtown that Wrigley was. I went up to both Sears and Hancock and could see it plain as day and could not even see a glimpse of Wrigley.

**chasfh** · 08-10-2012, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by Antrat

I put down Detroit all the time for the same reasons Oblong stated, but I get pissed when an outsider attacks the city.
I was born elsewhere but I grew up and lived inside the city limits for 25 years, so I can say "outsiders" even though I no longer live there.

I put this in the same category as family. I can call my brother an *******, but when somebody not related says it, my hackles will get raised.

Exactly. Right on!

**chasfh** · 08-10-2012, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Oblong

Speaking of.... I was surprised last week in Chicago at how much closer the Cell was to downtown that Wrigley was. I went up to both Sears and Hancock and could see it plain as day and could not even see a glimpse of Wrigley.

Funny, because they are almost exactly the same distance from Madison as each other. Wrigley is 3600N, cellphone is 3500S. Sears Tower is on Jackson, 200S, so marginally closer. I think the difference is, cellphone park is isolated and stands tall within its surrondings, whereas Wrigley sits in a densely built area among structures of similar height.

**ROMAD1** · 08-10-2012, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by chasfh

Funny, because they are almost exactly the same distance from Madison as each other. Wrigley is 3600N, cellphone is 3500S. Sears Tower is on Jackson, 200S, so marginally closer. I think the difference is, cellphone park is isolated and stands tall within its surrondings, whereas Wrigley sits in a densely built area among structures of similar height.

41° 56′ 54″ N, 87° 39′ 20″ W for Wrigley

41° 49′ 48″ N, 87° 38′ 2″ W for Mobile Fone Field

41° 52′ 44.04″ N, 87° 38′ 8.88″ W for Sears Tower.

draw your own conclusions.

**hueytaxi** · 08-10-2012, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

41° 56′ 54″ N, 87° 39′ 20″ W for Wrigley

41° 49′ 48″ N, 87° 38′ 2″ W for Mobile Fone Field

41° 52′ 44.04″ N, 87° 38′ 8.88″ W for Sears Tower.

draw your own conclusions.

So how many clicks from Papa Oscar?