Mitt Romney's Offshore Accounts

[TheCouga]

Romney: My blind trust holds offshore accounts, hiding nothing* - NY Daily News

Mitt Romney is still playing defense on the issue of his personal finances, insisting in a radio interview that there is "nothing hidden" in his offshore accounts and that he doesn’t “even know where they are.”

Romney was forced to again address reports of his Caribbean investments during an interview with Radio Iowa on Monday. Romney called into the station ahead of President Obama’s scheduled visit to the state on Tuesday.
Romney said Obama is launching personal attacks on his finances to "divert attention from the fact that his jobs record is weak and he has no plan to make things better."

"With regard to any foreign investments, I understand, and you understand of course, that my investments have been held by a blind trust, have been managed by a trustee," Romney said. "I don't manage them. I don't even know where they are. That trustee follows all U.S. laws. All the taxes are paid, as appropriate. All of them have been reported to the government. There's nothing hidden there."

Read more: Romney: My blind trust holds offshore accounts, hiding nothing* - NY Daily News

Kind of nice to have so many offshore bank accounts that you don't even know where they are. But this begs one to question: Why are all these accounts offshore? And why won't Romney release his tax returns? Is he trying to evade taxes? Does he do this to bet against the American Dollar? Supposedly, his personal tax lawyer, R. Bradford Malt, has taken care of everything.

Of course, it also turns out that Mitt Romney failed to disclose the existence of Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors, LLC, a shell corporation based in Bermuda:

PolitiFact | Democrats say Mitt Romney failed to disclose offshore company in Bermuda

As for Gibbs’ other assertion that Romney has failed to disclose his stake in Sankaty seven times, that also is largely accurate. We counted six disclosure forms where Romney made no reference at all to the Bahamian corporation. Those include his filings in Massachusetts when he was running for governor or holding office and his federal disclosures for his presidential bids.

So Mitt Romney wasn't even aware of this shell corporation, nor does he even know where his money is. Except he did know, because:

The problem with Romney’s claim? The Bermuda corporation—Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors—was registered in 1997 and Romney was listed as the “the sole shareholder, a director, and president” of the corporation. The Bermuda corporation was under his personal ownership until it was transferred into a blind trust in his wife’s name the day before he was sworn in as governor, possibly to avoid disclosure. In fact, the one fulltax return Romney did release shows that he directly owned the company as recently in 2010 and it was not held in his trust.

So the question is, why is Mitt Romney lying about his offshore accounts? Is he evading taxes? Hedgning against the American Dollar? How will he explain this to swing-voters in the Midwest?

[Oblong]

There's not a big enough yawn to give this topic what it needs.

Isn't most money by politicians put in blind trusts to avoid conflict of interest charges?

I have money invested in a fund and I have no idea what it invests in. That's what I pay them to do. All I care about is the % return.

It's a scandal that he's hiding his money as opposed to a guy who is using our money to pay off his friends to set up phony solar companies?

[TheCouga]

I dunno. If he's failing to disclose some, and lying about his knowledge of others, and refusing to release all his tax returns, it makes it seem like he has something to hide. How many taxes is he dodging though this intense network of accounts in places like Switzerland, Luxemborg, the Cayman Islands, and Bermuda?

He pays a 15% tax rate...less than most middle-class families. It's interesting to see how that's possible.

[JayVee]

15% tax rate...less than most middle-class families. It's interesting to see how that's possible.

That is an absolute lie.

Even if Obama says it's true.

[pfife]

LOL @ the folks who sank Daschle to HHS position now looking the other way.... LOL @ those who repeatedly bash Geitner's tax fiasco now looking the other way.

Guess they hold HHS and Treasury to a higher standard than president. SOLID.

[monkeynuts]

I dunno. If he's failing to disclose some, and lying about his knowledge of others, and refusing to release all his tax returns, it makes it seem like he has something to hide. How many taxes is he dodging though this intense network of accounts in places like Switzerland, Luxemborg, the Cayman Islands, and Bermuda?

He pays a 15% tax rate...less than most middle-class families. It's interesting to see how that's possible.

Completely agree - and people do care since this continues to feed into the narrative that he is out-of-touch with the normal folks. I mean, he's got tons of cash abroad that he has no idea where it is? WTF? Is he really trying to avoid paying American taxes while running for President? Yikes. I for one hope that this issue remains known to the public.

[pfife]

That is an absolute lie.

Even if Obama says it's true.

Which part do you contend is untrue?

[JayVee]

This part:

Obama’s misleading tweet on Romney’s tax rate - The Washington Post

[hueytaxi]

Does anyone here who invests in mutual funds or relies on a broker know exactly where their investments are geographically? I have a diversified portfolio, but certainly have not researched each fund beyond returns. Oh, I also am just above the accepted poverty level now post retirement. I don't draw off of those investments yet and the wife certainly is not bringing home the middle class income.

[TheCouga]

Does anyone here who invests in mutual funds or relies on a broker know exactly where their investments are geographically? I have a diversified portfolio, but certainly have not researched each fund beyond returns. Oh, I also am just above the accepted poverty level now post retirement. I don't draw off of those investments yet and the wife certainly is not bringing home the middle class income.

Yet you haven't started your own investment company called Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors, LLC, based it in Bermuda, called yourself the President of the company, and then later pretended that the shell corporation you started in Bermuda didn't exist.

[screwball]

Does anyone here who invests in mutual funds or relies on a broker know exactly where their investments are geographically? I have a diversified portfolio, but certainly have not researched each fund beyond returns. Oh, I also am just above the accepted poverty level now post retirement. I don't draw off of those investments yet and the wife certainly is not bringing home the middle class income.

Do you mean what stocks (read companies) you own a part of, or where the broker is located?

ON EDIT: Never mind, misread on my part.

[TheCouga]

This part:

Obama’s misleading tweet on Romney’s tax rate - The Washington Post

Depends on what you mean by "middle class." Families that make over $60,000/year pay more in taxes than Romney.

[JayVee]

Depends on what you mean by "middle class." Families that make over $60,000/year pay more in taxes than Romney.

I don't know what I was thinking asking you to actually read a link I posted. Here, for you to skim:

Effective Tax Rates (taxes paid on tax return)

Bottom 20 percent (0-$17,000): -5.8 percent

Second 20 Percent ($17,000-$33,500): 1.3 percent

Middle 20 percent ($33,500-59,500): 9.2 percent

Fourth 20 Percent ($59,000-$103,500): 12.9 percent

Top 20 Percent ($103,500+): 20.6 percent

[JayVee]

And the takeaway:

Romney, by receiving much of his income in capital gains and dividends and giving millions of dollars to charity, is certainly able to keep his effective tax rate relatively low, especially compared to a wealthy person who earns much of his or her income in salary. But, even so, Romney still pays an effective tax rate that is higher than the tax rate paid by most Americans.

[TheCouga]

And the takeaway:

LOL. Most of that "charity" goes to the Mormon Church. So they can turn around and use it to deny gay people of their constitutional rights.

[TheCouga]

I don't know what I was thinking asking you to actually read a link I posted. Here, for you to skim:

Interesting.

Effective Tax Rates (also including payroll tax paid by employer)
Bottom 20 percent (0-$17,000): 1 percent
Second 20 Percent ($17,000-$33,500): 7.8 percent
Middle 20 percent ($33,500-59,500): 15.5 percent
Fourth 20 Percent ($59,000-$103,500): 18.7 percent
Top 20 Percent ($103,500+): 24.3 percent

When I think of "middle class," I think of about a family income of $75K-$150K/year. Middle class isn't the same as median income.

[hueytaxi]

Now I need to reclassify myself. Downward. I doubt we ever broke Couga's minimum middle class level. Time to sell the house at a loss, rent a trailer and swap the Honda for an old truck I suppose.....any one have a few rebel flag bumper stickers they will donate?

[TheCouga]

Now I need to reclassify myself. Downward. I doubt we ever broke Couga's minimum middle class level. Time to sell the house at a loss, rent a trailer and swap the Honda for an old truck I suppose.....any one have a few rebel flag bumper stickers they will donate?

It's a rough estimate in 2012 dollars, and you have to adjust for cost of living.

I don't know your entire story, but if y'all adjusted your combined income over the years to 2012 dollars, I'd be surprised if you were below that minimum threshold.

[pfife]

This part:

Obama’s misleading tweet on Romney’s tax rate - The Washington Post

sorry man, I wasn't clear.

I mean, that Romney didn't pay 15%, or that 15% is less than most middle class families?

Since your article says this, I'm assuming you don't mean that Romney didn't pay 15%:

h taxes in the United States, most Americans pay a relatively small percentage of their income in taxes. Second, Romney had an effective rate of 13.9 percent in 2010 and 15.4 percent in 2011, which gives him a higher rate than 80 percent of taxpayers in the first method and puts him just about in the middle of all taxpayers in the second method.

[Oblong]

LOL. Most of that "charity" goes to the Mormon Church. So they can turn around and use it to deny gay people of their constitutional rights.

oh look.... the "tolerant liberal" is being a bigot again....

[TheCouga]

oh look.... the "tolerant liberal" is being a bigot again....

Reporting facts is evidence of being a bigot? Who knew.

[TheCouga]

Mitt Romney taxes show 'very high' charitable giving tied to Mormon church - CSMonitor.com

Just so that we're clear that most of Romney's "charitable donations" went to a Church that invested millions in denying California gay citizens the right to marry.

[hueytaxi]

Mormons are truly a world wide minority. Most major religions also agree with the Mormon church on gay marriage. So that makes them bad? Or is it religion that is bad?

[monkeynuts]

oh look.... the "tolerant liberal" is being a bigot again....

That just makes no sense.

[TheCouga]

Mormons are truly a world wide minority. Most major religions also agree with the Mormon church on gay marriage. So that makes them bad? Or is it religion that is bad?

It's inequality that is bad. Not all religions promote inequality. The Mormon church is one that does.

People should really read the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence sometime. There's some wording in those documents that all men and women are created equal, and that religions shouldn't be able to create law in this nation.

[JayVee]

a Church that invested millions in denying California gay citizens the right to marry.

Do you have a link to this?

[hueytaxi]

It's inequality that is bad. Not all religions promote inequality. The Mormon church is one that does.

People should really read the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence sometime. There's some wording in those documents that all men and women are created equal, and that religions shouldn't be able to create law in this nation.

Neither document is relevant to this discussion. Actually most religions disagree with gay marriage or unions, but you already overlooked that.. The religion does not dictate change in law, the congregations do in the voting booth or by enacting legislation, but you knew that also.

[JayVee]

Effective Tax Rates (also including payroll tax paid by employer)
Bottom 20 percent (0-$17,000): 1 percent
Second 20 Percent ($17,000-$33,500): 7.8 percent
Middle 20 percent ($33,500-59,500): 15.5 percent
Fourth 20 Percent ($59,000-$103,500): 18.7 percent
Top 20 Percent ($103,500+): 24.3 percent

Why are these rates even remotely relevant to what is being argued?

[JayVee]

sorry man, I wasn't clear.

I mean, that Romney didn't pay 15%, or that 15% is less than most middle class families?

Since your article says this, I'm assuming you don't mean that Romney didn't pay 15%:

No, of course he only paid 15%. Nearly all of his earnings were taxed at 15%, therefore it makes sense that he paid 15% tax. Is anyone arguing differently?

Of course we are talking FEDERAL taxes only...

[pyrotigers]

A powerful politician is fabulously wealthy and does whatever he can to protect his wealth. Interesting development, keep me updated.

[TheCouga]

Do you have a link to this?

Common public knowledge for years now...

Let me google that for you

[TheCouga]

Why are these rates even remotely relevant to what is being argued?

Aren't you supposed to be able to figure that out?

[diamondhead]

It's inequality that is bad. Not all religions promote inequality. The Mormon church is one that does.

People should really read the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence sometime. There's some wording in those documents that all men and women are created equal, and that religions shouldn't be able to create law in this nation.

I'm not a Mitt Romney fan in any stretch of the imagination but these attacks on his "tax contributions" are pretty sad. The last two years all of his income has been from investments and have been paid at the "maximum" long term capital gains rate of 15%. The middle class families pays the exact same long term capital gains rate. Those making less than $42,000 pay a lower capital gains rate.

So you're demonizing a guy that has paid over $6 million in federal taxes over the past two years as well as contributing $4 million to the Morman church and an additional $3 million to other charities? What more should have he done? Let me ask you, do you give the federal government more than what is required by you from our tax laws? Let me ask you another question, does the Federal government spend any money on any program that you consider wasteful, unethical or immoral? If the answer to both questions is a yes, than you're a complete dope. Until government waste and graft is completely eliminated I don't think it's moral to argue over the tax burden of anyone.

It's petty to attack a charitable donation to a church on a single issue that you don't agree with. I'm sure every dime that Romney donated to the Mormon church was meant to bury gay marriage and none of it was intended to fund the missions of it's members while providing humanitarian aid to over 140 countries around the world.

[JayVee]

Common public knowledge for years now...

Let me google that for you

I googled it long before you thought to give such a snarky answer, which is why I asked you. The only references I found were to ~$190K that the LDS church gave in non-monetary "in-kind" gifts to the Prop 8 cause.

So I'll try again. Do you have a link for your claim?

[TheCouga]

I'm not a Mitt Romney fan in any stretch of the imagination but these attacks on his "tax contributions" are pretty sad. The last two years all of his income has been from investments and have been paid at the "maximum" long term capital gains rate of 15%. The middle class families pays the exact same long term capital gains rate. Those making less than $42,000 pay a lower capital gains rate.

So you're demonizing a guy that has paid over $6 million in federal taxes over the past two years as well as contributing $4 million to the Morman church and an additional $3 million to other charities? What more should have he done? Let me ask you, do you give the federal government more than what is required by you from our tax laws? Let me ask you another question, does the Federal government spend any money on any program that you consider wasteful, unethical or immoral? If the answer to both questions is a yes, than you're a complete dope. Until government waste and graft is completely eliminated I don't think it's moral to argue over the tax burden of anyone.

It's petty to attack a charitable donation to a church on a single issue that you don't agree with. I'm sure every dime that Romney donated to the Mormon church was meant to bury gay marriage and none of it was intended to fund the missions of it's members while providing humanitarian aid to over 140 countries around the world.

The dude is worth more than $250 million. There's a TON more that he could have done.

[TheCouga]

I googled it long before you thought to give such a snarky answer, which is why I asked you. The only references I found were to ~$190K that the LDS church gave in non-monetary "in-kind" gifts to the Prop 8 cause.

So I'll try again. Do you have a link for your claim?

Now I'm not sure which claim you're talking about: Romney's donations to the Mormon church, or the Mormon Church's contributions to oppose Proposition 8?

[belcherboy]

The dude is worth more than $250 million. There's a TON more that he could have done.

You mean like the grand giving of Barack Obama or Joe Biden? I could be the victim of misinformation, but weren't both of them around 1-2%?

I'm no fan of the Mormon church. I believe they are a pretty shady religion, but they do a lot of charitable things around the world. The fact of the matter is that Romney gives a MUCH higher % of his income to charity (with most of it going to the Mormon church) than probably 95% of all Americans.

Honestly Couga, his charitable giving is something you despise about him as well?

[TheCouga]

You mean like the grand giving of Barack Obama or Joe Biden? I could be the victim of misinformation, but weren't both of them around 1-2%?

I'm no fan of the Mormon church. I believe they are a pretty shady religion, but they do a lot of charitable things around the world. The fact of the matter is that Romney gives a MUCH higher % of his income to charity (with most of it going to the Mormon church) than probably 95% of all Americans.

Honestly Couga, his charitable giving is something you despise about him as well?

You are the victim of misinformation, I hate to inform you. Obama's charitable giving is also in the 14% range.

Also: I don't despise charitable giving. But I do think the notion that his giving to the "Mormon Church" is charity is kind of BS. Religion is not charity. Some religions may have charitable functions, but giving to the religion itself is not charity.

[mtutiger]

Also: I don't despise charitable giving. But I do think the notion that his giving to the "Mormon Church" is charity is kind of BS. Religion is not charity. Some religions may have charitable functions, but giving to the religion itself is not charity.

I kind of agree with this POV... charity seems a lot less charitable when it could conceivably come with strings attached.

[belcherboy]

You are the victim of misinformation, I hate to inform you.

What was there giving to past 3-4 years, because everything I look up online puts Biden and Obama 2% or below?

Also: I don't despise charitable giving. But I do thin the notion that his giving to the "Mormon Church" is charity is kind of BS. Religion is not charity. Some religions may have charitable functions, but giving to the religion itself is not charity.

The government labels it as charitable and tax deductible. Do you believe that the Mormon church is not providing charity to the world and should be stripped of it's tax deductible status? Do you believe this about all churches?