AG Holder is about to be rung up

[ROMAD1]

F&F never really had my attention until lately.

I understand the the guy at the center of it was Dennis Burke, a US Attorney in Arizona who wrote the original Clinton assault weapons ban and was a virulent anti-Second Amendment guy.

U.S. Attorney for Arizona Dennis Burke resigns

Burke of Fast and Furious had anti-gun history

And he began working on gun control. DeConcini said Burke helped draft the Anti-Drug Assault Weapons Limitation Act of 1989. A five-year battle ensued, ending with President Bill Clinton signing the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which made it a federal offense to possess certain semiautomatic rifles manufactured after the law's passage.

DeConcini said Burke fostered the measure in concert with a key figure in the White House, policy analyst Rahm Emanuel, who years later would become chief of staff for President Obama. Emanuel now is mayor of Chicago.

"Dennis was the one who worked with everyone on the Judiciary Committee to line up these members and votes," DeConcini said. "Dennis had all these pictures of these guns -- the Streetsweepers and the AK-47s. And it passed by one vote. A lot of it was not my eloquence on the bill, it was stuff that Dennis had done."

Read more: Burke of Fast and Furious had anti-gun history

In 1997, Burke became a federal prosecutor under U.S. Attorney Janet Napolitano, getting firsthand experience with Mexican syndicates that were smuggling narcotics and firearms. In an interview that year with the Arizona Business Gazette, he identified earlier gun-regulation efforts as the most fulfilling professional assignment he'd undertaken.

I suspect at a minimum they were trying to create favorable conditions for another assault weapons ban.

[T&P_Fan]

Obama asserts executive privilege on Fast and Furious documents - CNN.com

President Barack Obama has asserted executive privilege over documents sought by a House committee investigating the botched Fast and Furious gun-running sting, according to a letter to the panel Wednesday from Deputy Attorney Gen. James Cole.

The move means the Department of Justice can withhold the documents from the House Oversight Committee, which was scheduled to consider a contempt measure Wednesday against Holder...

Interesting stuff.

[ROMAD1]

Obama asserts executive privilege on Fast and Furious documents - CNN.com



Interesting stuff.

Mickey Spillane version of this:

Issa: "I've just accused you of Murder and you haven't even asked me what this is about...I'd say you got a big guilty sign hung around your neck."

Holder: "$#D% you copper!"

[pfife]

My initial take is that this is an overstep of Exec Privelege. produce the damn docs.

[Oblong]

well now we know what the "scandal" will be in an Obama 2nd term.

[belcherboy]

Do you think this is a:
"I know I'm going to be pulled in the middle of this, so I need to cover my rear" type move by Obama

or

"I'm not letting anyone get to these docs until I get to the bottom of what really happened" type move by Obama??

If it is the first, it will look REALLY bad for him once the documents come out. I've got a feeling it is closer to the second option, although I know little to nothing about this whole situation. It seems like he is going to protect his man, until he knows for sure that he has to let Holder "take his lumps" for the F&F stuff.

This has been a really rough campaign so for for Obama.

[ROMAD1]

Do you think this is a:
"I know I'm going to be pulled in the middle of this, so I need to cover my rear" type move by Obama

or

"I'm not letting anyone get to these docs until I get to the bottom of what really happened" type move by Obama??

If it is the first, it will look REALLY bad for him once the documents come out. I've got a feeling it is closer to the second option, although I know little to nothing about this whole situation. It seems like he is going to protect his man, until he knows for sure that he has to let Holder "take his lumps" for the F&F stuff.

This has been a really rough campaign so for for Obama.

Issa's been asking the wrong guy for this information. He needs to pose as a friendly reporter and ask Donilon

[pyrotigers]

I don't like Issa very much, but this whole thing seems ridiculous. Holder wants to be found innocent before producing the evidence that would supposedly find him innocent in exchange for giving said evidence and now we won't even get to see the evidence because the President, who has never seen the documents nor had any prior knowledge of this operation of course, finds them to be privileged....

aghhh politician's logic

[belcherboy]

Some more wheels coming off Holder's wagon?

Weasel Zippers » Blog Archive » Holder Retracts Claim Bush Attorney General Mukasey Knew About Fast And Furious…

Issa: Holder now retracts claim that AG predecessor, Michael Mukasey, knew about F&F-like program.

[ROMAD1]

I wonder if Bloomberg will poll on how popular Executive Privilege is?

[Melody]

I don't like Issa very much, but this whole thing seems ridiculous. Holder wants to be found innocent before producing the evidence that would supposedly find him innocent in exchange for giving said evidence and now we won't even get to see the evidence because the President, who has never seen the documents nor had any prior knowledge of this operation of course, finds them to be privileged....

aghhh politician's logic

Thus the most "transparent administration in history." Evidently they are able to hold their own misdeeds close to the vest, but classified information vital to our national security and that of our allies? That gets blabbed all over the globe.

[pfife]

Well, to be fair, "most transparent administrat in history" does not equal "transparent". It just means more transparent than those before. Apparently this is his first use of executive privelege, which apparently W used 6 times, and Clinton used 14 times. I would content that using executive privelege as a measure, Obama's average per year is better than the prior two presidents.

[ROMAD1]

And they are trying to protect Bush

[pfife]

And they are trying to protect Bush

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but it might be true, who knows? Obama has a record of protecting Bush. F&F apparently started under Bush, from what I read a while ago.

[Deleterious]

Politicians need to ban this pesky Youtube site.

[ROMAD1]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but it might be true, who knows? Obama has a record of protecting Bush. F&F apparently started under Bush, from what I read a while ago.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder...rticle/2500157

well you read wrong apparently

Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.

Thrashing around is not a strategy

[DaYooperASBDT]

A President should never have anything to hide from Congressional oversight, says Barry O.

Unless of course, you ARE Barry, The One, savior of the nation: Obama invokes executive privilege as Holder faces contempt vote | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

He truly makes me physically ill.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Obama isn't always as smart as some claim him to be. He should have had Holder throw himself on the sword at least a year ago - now he inherits a **** storm less than five months before the election. Trying to suppress a giggle here. :-)

[pfife]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder...rticle/2500157

well you read wrong apparently



Thrashing around is not a strategy

that's not really the same question.... but as I read more, it does appear that F&F did begin in 2009, but there are other programs that began under Bush.

[ROMAD1]

Holder can go back to reinstating criminals into the NFL.

[T&P_Fan]

Obama isn't always as smart as some claim him to be. He should have had Holder throw himself on the sword at least a year ago - now he inherits a **** storm less than five months before the election. Trying to suppress a giggle here. :-)

I think you're overstating the situation. To the general public "fast and furious" will never be anything more than a vin diesel movie.

Obama is just keeping things close to the vest, I like it. In the 3.5 years Obama has been in office he has demonstrated the political acumen I would like to see in a president; strong resolve, genius level rhetorical skills and a good command for foreign policy. He is doing a fine job.

[pfife]

Obama isn't always as smart as some claim him to be. He should have had Holder throw himself on the sword at least a year ago - now he inherits a **** storm less than five months before the election. Trying to suppress a giggle here. :-)

I think this is going to have little impact on the election.

[shabba4detroit]

I think you're overstating the situation. To the general public "fast and furious" will never be anything more than a vin diesel movie.

The same could have been said about Iran Contra before the lid blew off of that. And IIRC, no American civilians were killed on American soil with any arms traded for hostages.

[T&P_Fan]

The same could have been said about Iran Contra before the lid blew off of that. And IIRC, no American civilians were killed on American soil with any arms traded for hostages.

You make a good point. I guess we will have to see how it plays out. My hypothesis, though, is that this won't be a huge detriment.

[DrWho17]

It is funny to watch the arrogant prick go down in flames, I think congress is done allowing him to retract his letters/statements. Wonder why this scandal isn't being reported on a daily basis on the networks, very strange, it's big, and now with EP and the news articles last week about how Obama manages everything it seems Obama was involved.

[pfife]

The same could have been said about Iran Contra before the lid blew off of that. And IIRC, no American civilians were killed on American soil with any arms traded for hostages.

Do you have a link for F&F guns being murder weapons on American soil?

Also, what was Iran Contra's Presidential election impact?

[pfife]

It is funny to watch the arrogant prick go down in flames, I think congress is done allowing him to retract his letters/statements. Wonder why this scandal isn't being reported on a daily basis on the networks, very strange, it's big, and now with EP and the news articles last week about how Obama manages everything it seems Obama was involved.

LOL

[T&P_Fan]

It is funny to watch the arrogant prick go down in flames, I think congress is done allowing him to retract his letters/statements. Wonder why this scandal isn't being reported on a daily basis on the networks, very strange, it's big, and now with EP and the news articles last week about how Obama manages everything it seems Obama was involved.

Come on.

[belcherboy]

Do you have a link for F&F guns being murder weapons on American soil?

This is just an accusation, but they claimed the agent was killed by the weapons of F&F: Family of murdered Border Patrol agent files $25M claim against ATF | Fox News

I really haven't heard of many though. Lot's of Mexicans, and a few undercover American agents in Mexico, but not Americans on American soil.

[hueytaxi]

Obama ............ He is doing a fine job.

Dang, now I have to clean my keyboard again!!!!!

[ROMAD1]

speculate...what is the worst thing that is being withheld?

- President Obama ordering dog from a korean BBQ?
- AG Holder's embarrassing love letters to Michael Vick?

What could be so embarrassing?

[shabba4detroit]

Do you have a link for F&F guns being murder weapons on American soil?

Also, what was Iran Contra's Presidential election impact?

A link has been provided.

Also, you caught me. Reading is fundamental. Iran Contra broke open in Reagan's second term. And after Dukakis climbed in that tank, no one cared that Bush was arguably nipples deep in Iran Contra.

[ROMAD1]

What’s a Secret, What’s Not?

Would that the Obama administration had cared as much about protecting the security secrets involving the Predator drone program, the bin Laden raid, the operations on the Afghan border and in Yemen, and the cyberwar against Iran as it is does about protecting the unknowns of Fast and Furious. A cynic might suggest the leaked release of national-security secrets were thought to have enhanced presidential stature, while those of gunrunning might diminish it; so we are left with vital national-security operations now known to all, and peripheral operations along the border known not even to Congress.

Damning

[Sparks4Ever]

Holder retracts claim Bush team knew about Fast and Furious | WashingtonExaminer.com

well you read wrong apparently



Thrashing around is not a strategy

Inadvertant? What a crock. That was Holder's core argument. He got caught telling a lie. A really big lie. He should be canned.

[sinister porpoise]

What’s a Secret, What’s Not?



Damning

I recall leaks of classified information during the last GOP presidency. I don't remember anyone claiming that every such leak was purposeful by the admin to make GWB look good. Why the seeming double standard?

[ROMAD1]

I recall leaks of classified information during the last GOP presidency. I don't remember anyone claiming that every such leak was purposeful by the admin to make GWB look good. Why the seeming double standard?

the one where Richard Armitage admitted that he was the leaker but Patrick Fitzgerald still somehow put Scooter Libby under the blowtorch?

[hueytaxi]

[JayVee]

Can't watch the proceedings, but apparently there are amendments being proposed? What are they?

[monkeynuts]

the one where Richard Armitage admitted that he was the leaker but Patrick Fitzgerald still somehow put Scooter Libby under the blowtorch?

There is a belief amongst some that Scooter lied to the grand jury.

[pfife]

A link has been provided.

Which link?

ETA: The AZcentral link says this:

The end came after federal records and testimony revealed that Burke last year pressed colleagues and superiors to deny that the Justice Department knowingly allowed guns to be smuggled into Mexico under his watch, and that two of those weapons wound up at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

Read more: Burke of Fast and Furious had anti-gun history

That specifically does not say the guns killed someone, let alone an American Civilian on American soil. "wound up at the murder scene" doesn't mean it was the murder weapon. In fact, it most likely means it was not the murder weapon.