AG Holder is about to be rung up

[ROMAD1]

Obama’s Best-Kept Secret

Rich Lowry is having some mischief here...but the point is well made...transparent to a fault about national security secrets but not about stuff about the program that went bad.

[Sparks4Ever]

Umm, no, that's not what I said. What I said was in response to this notion that this investigation was being done in the name of delivering a fair accounting for the family of Brian Terry. It is my belief that to Darrell Issa, Brian Terry is merely a prop in order to score political points against the AG.

Don't get me wrong, Justice hasn't handled this situation great. But any ethics committee under the leadership of Darrell Issa should have their motives questioned from time to time. And this is clearly political.

Everything in congress is political. What makes this more political than anything else? Do you think Holder has been entirely forthcoming in these hearings? If not, shouldn't the committee press him on this?

Maybe we should examine the politics in the Democrats giving Holder a free pass? That seems a lot more curious to me.

[mtutiger]

Everything in congress is political. What makes this more political than anything else?

Two words: Darrell Issa. I have no problem with Congress holding the Executive Branch accountable. But the Republican in charge of the committee is quite possibly one of the most corrupt members of Congress, and he basically said that he gets off at the idea of subpoenaing the hell out of the Obama Administration.

Excuse me while I question his motives. It's the pot calling the kettle black to me.

[screwball]

If they want to hang Holder (fine by me) why didn't they just go after him for not going after the criminals on Wall Street after they blew up the world?

I'll answer my own question - because they all work for Wall Street and don't want to lose their gravy train of perks, money, and favors.

Their all a bunch of crooks - they make me want to puke.

[ROMAD1]

Minority Leader Pelosi needs to be held in contempt for her comments about voter suppression.

[DrWho17]

Minority Leader Pelosi needs to be held in contempt for her comments about voter suppression.

Well, if wasn't so funny. Nancy Pelosi is just dumber then a box of rocks, luckily for her most of her constituents are just as dumb.

[JayVee]

Is there indication that his family has not received fair accounting from the government?

Well they were interviewed on Hannity last night, and they claimed to have heard nothing from the gov't other than the standard condolences offered at the funeral, (before they had heard about F&F) and Holder's apology (which they heard on the news before getting the letter themselves).

[JayVee]

IMO, the original inquiry 18 months ago wasn't political. People on both sides were legitimately interested in know more about why F&F went bad, and why Terry died. It wasn't political until it became evident that Holder had lied, and presumptively had something to hide...

My biggest question about yesterday's proceedings:

Why do Dems (including Jay Carney) claim that Holder has given Congress all the documents they requested ("over 7600 documents!") when it's clear from following the process that that number is barely 10% of what has been requested?

[sinister porpoise]

Everything in congress is political. What makes this more political than anything else? Do you think Holder has been entirely forthcoming in these hearings? If not, shouldn't the committee press him on this?

Maybe we should examine the politics in the Democrats giving Holder a free pass? That seems a lot more curious to me.

Hard to see how dragging this out for a fishing expedition to embarrass the White House is equally "political" as actually working to improve America.

Congress and the Executive both have better things to do.

“The problem of gunwalking was a field-driven tactic that dated back to the previous Administration, and it was this Administration’s Attorney General who ended it. In fact, the Justice Department has spent the past fourteen months accommodating Congressional investigators, producing 7,600 pages of documents, and testifying at eleven Congressional hearings,” Pfeiffer said in an emailed statement. “Yet, Republicans insist on moving forward with an effort that Republicans and objective legal experts have noted is purely political.”

[Oblong]

Did you just copy/paste that directly from the talking points?

Glocks and Spiels - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/21/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Differentiate Your Party's Assertion of Executive Privilege From the Previous Administration's - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/21/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

[pfife]

Well they were interviewed on Hannity last night, and they claimed to have heard nothing from the gov't other than the standard condolences offered at the funeral, (before they had heard about F&F) and Holder's apology (which they heard on the news before getting the letter themselves).

And how is this action by Issa getting the family a fair accounting? What are they expecting? Wouldn't fair accounting mean they know who killed their family member (they do) and they can't determine whether it was a F&F gun because the bullet was to damaged for ballistic analysis? What else is there?

[pfife]

Did you just copy/paste that directly from the talking points?

Glocks and Spiels - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/21/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Differentiate Your Party's Assertion of Executive Privilege From the Previous Administration's - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/21/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Assuming you were responding to SP, he never said anything about executive privilege.

Do you think those that began the gunrunning program should be investigated too? Seems very political when two parties are responsible but only one is being called to testify. The Senate should do an investigation of the GOP's hand in this too since Issa is obviously way too politically biased to look at things fully.

[sinister porpoise]

Did you just copy/paste that directly from the talking points?

Glocks and Spiels - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/21/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Differentiate Your Party's Assertion of Executive Privilege From the Previous Administration's - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 06/21/12 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Obama in 2007 said the Bush administration used executive privilege too often. This is supposed to make Obama a hypocrite for having just now used it for the first time in his own presidency?

[Oblong]

Obama in 2007 said the Bush administration used executive privilege too often. This is supposed to make Obama a hypocrite for having just now used it for the first time in his own presidency?

Do you not think he is? Do you think he's justified in using it?

[ROMAD1]

Oblong, I think this is heading for a release on the Friday before July 4th weekend. But, the use of the racism angle by Pelosi and others is really weird. Is every exchange between a committee and a witness that happens in DC the result of racism?

this only moves the needle with most voters a little bit...people will only care how the economy is doing and will base their decision on that alone. I think most people are starting to form that opinion now. But, if the President and his surrogates want to go to this desperate level over this issue...they might be heading for a blowout loss in November.

[pfife]

July 4th is a wednesday

they should release info the day the SCOTUS rulz on Obamacare, if that's their strategy.

I think .00000000000000000001% of the population gives a rats about this. I think it has negligible effect on the election

Obama isn't going to be blown out in november.

[TheCouga]

Nobody gives a **** about this. They think it's a political circus. And they're right.

[hueytaxi]

Nobody gives a **** about this. They think it's a political circus. And they're right.

Correct on your second point about the circus, but incorrect on your first.

[ROMAD1]

Nobody gives a **** about this. They think it's a political circus. And they're right.

Which is why the President shouldn't have raised the profile so high.

in other word...People care now.

[Mr. DNA]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Except when they get their guns from the Obama administration.

[hueytaxi]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Except when they get their guns from the Obama administration.

Actually the US govt. has had a program allowing civilians to purchase military rifles for many years.....http://www.odcmp.com/catalog.pdf

[Mr. DNA]

I was just thinking that the federal agent who was supposedly killed by F&F guns couldn't have really been killed by F&F guns. He was killed by people. Guns are irrelevant in that situation, at least according to anti-gun control arguments of the past several decades. Who cares if someone sold weapons to the Mexican cartels...If anything, it made us some money and helped us keep tabs on the bad guys, since guns don't actually kill people. If it failed in that objective, it's no big deal. What's it matter if Mexican drug gangs have our guns? Everyone should be able to have a gun. If they get caught killing a federal agent, arrest them for that.

[Mr. DNA]

Ollie North was a right wing hero for helping funnel weapons to Ayatollah Assahollah. He helped America regain its pride after Vietnam and taught those liberal wimps a thing or two about a thing or two. What, has the right wing gotten soft? Guns aren't 100% cool anymore?

[hueytaxi]

Mr. DNA,

Tell me you are not using bath salts please.

[JayVee]

Which is why the President shouldn't have raised the profile so high.

in other word...People care now.

This. Nobody cared until Holder balked and Obama intervened.

[JayVee]

I was just thinking that the federal agent who was supposedly killed by F&F guns couldn't have really been killed by F&F guns. He was killed by people. Guns are irrelevant in that situation, at least according to anti-gun control arguments of the past several decades. Who cares if someone sold weapons to the Mexican cartels...If anything, it made us some money and helped us keep tabs on the bad guys, since guns don't actually kill people. If it failed in that objective, it's no big deal. What's it matter if Mexican drug gangs have our guns? Everyone should be able to have a gun. If they get caught killing a federal agent, arrest them for that.

I'm thinking you're being sarcastic here, but not sure to what end. It's obviously a big deal, though maybe not as big as some grandstanding politicians want you to believe.

It just looks bad, supplying guns to our enemies who use them to kill our agents, not to mention just a little counterproductive... But I'm pretty sure you're intelligent enough to figure that out.

[ROMAD1]

Actually the US govt. has had a program allowing civilians to purchase military rifles for many years.....http://www.odcmp.com/catalog.pdf

They sell Krags?! I'm going to have to get a Garand some day...also an iconic weapon.

[mtutiger]

I wonder if Bush's first use of executive privilege resulted in a four page thread....

[MrDeeds]

Fireworks: Maher, Rachel Maddow And Nick Gillespie Debate Fast & Furious | RealClearPolitics

[ROMAD1]

I wonder if Bush's first use of executive privilege resulted in a four page thread....

It was relating to Janet Reno apparently

[sinister porpoise]

Do you not think he is? Do you think he's justified in using it?

I do accept Eric Holder's explanation for executive privilege as he wrote here to Obama.

In this context I would characterize the argument as, the executive branch cannot effectively respond to a controversy if all internal documents related to the response are open to review by a hostile party.

The threat of compelled disclosure of confidential Executive Branch deliberative material can discourage robust and candid deliberations, for “[h]uman experience teaches that those who expect public dissemination of their remarks may well temper candor with a concern for appearances and for their own interests to the detriment of the decisionmaking process.” Nixon, 418 U.S. at 705. Thus, Presidents have repeatedly asserted executive privilege to protect confidential Executive Branch deliberative materials from congressional subpoena.

Rather than turn over the particular "post-February 4th, 2011" documents, DOJ offered to prepare a briefing detailing the process by which they later withdrew the February 4th letter, and an explanation for each withheld document.

In a more complete Obama clip, he's talking about the Bush administration using executive privilege as part of a thorough stonewalling of the U.S. Attorney scandal. This can be distinguished from Holder's DOJ cooperating with Congress. I don't think Obama was saying executive privilege is always wrong, so I don't see him as a hypocrite here.

[ROMAD1]

Fast and Furious and OCDETF - Andrew C. McCarthy - National Review Online

This is a dang fascinating read from a person who understands the iron laws of the beauracracy at work in Justice Department cases.

[ballmich]

Inadvertant? What a crock. That was Holder's core argument. He got caught telling a lie. A really big lie. He should be canned.

Canned? Or judged for treason? The guy knowingly signed off on providing weapons to "enemy combatants". And those weapons were used to kill Americans and undermine the safety of our border with Mexico. Not to mention all of the innocent people south of the border who have been killed or terrorized with these weapons. If not treason, why not war crimes for attrocities committed against the Mexican populace?

Ironically, providing access to weapons to enemy combatants is exactly counter to Holder's stated opinion on the 2nd Amendment. And that makes F&F a clear false flag event which was intended to further restrict our 2nd Amendment rights. Too bad for Holder that not only did his F&F false flag not work, it dislcosed that he is a traitor, and in part has lead to record gun sales in the US each of the last three years.

[ROMAD1]

Appears that the NRA has weighed in on the contempt vote and some amount of democrats will vote a 2nd amendment-affirming rebuke to Eric Holder.

[CMRivdog]

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn....

How Fast and Furious reached the headlines is a strange and unsettling saga, one that reveals a lot about politics and media today. It's a story that starts with a grudge, specifically [ATF agent] Dodson's anger at [Dodson supervisor and "Fast and Furious" overseer] Voth. After the terrible murder of agent Terry, Dodson made complaints that were then amplified, first by right-wing bloggers, then by CBS. Rep. Issa and other politicians then seized those elements to score points against the Obama administration, which, for its part, has capitulated in an apparent effort to avoid a rhetorical battle over gun control in the run-up to the presidential election.

[JayVee]

This can be distinguished from Holder's DOJ cooperating with Congress.

Right, I forgot. Withholding 90% of the requested documents is called "cooperating".

[pfife]

And yet again, facts ruin the right

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

[ROMAD1]

Is that a fact? Hey, enter the fortune magazine editorial as evidence

[pfife]

Is that a fact? Hey, enter the fortune magazine editorial as evidence

It's not an editorial.

I see I'm the second one to post it, which means you've really been evading addressing anything it says. Which doesn't surprise me, since you're merely interested in seeing Holder get his comeuppance, not the facts of the situation.

[TheCouga]

Right, I forgot. Withholding 90% of the requested documents is called "cooperating".

Executive privilege is more important than feeding a congressional circus. We don't want our executive branch afraid to make controversial decisions for fear of having to be called before Congress at the whim of grandstanding political opponents -- having their strategies broadcast to the entire world and Monday-morning quarterbacked to death. That would create significant harm to this country, and especially put our national security at risk. Which would, of course, help the terrorists. Why do Republicans want to help the terrorists? Do they suddenly sympathize with their cause now that Obama is President?