New bill to require warrant to use drones

**MrDeeds** · 06-13-2012, 08:46 PM

Sen. Paul proposes bill protecting Americans from drone surveillance - The Hill's Hillicon Valley

**ROMAD1** · 06-13-2012, 09:51 PM

See many helicopters above your house? This is basically the same isn't it?

**pfife** · 06-13-2012, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

See many helicopters above your house? This is basically the same isn't it?

I don't see a lot of helicopters around my house, but alas, if I did, I'd wonder if they were all government helicopters.

Given that these drones are surveillance craft, I see no reason why their use shouldn't be subject to the same surveillance warrants. Good for Rand.

**ROMAD1** · 06-13-2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by pfife

I don't see a lot of helicopters around my house, but alas, if I did, I'd wonder if they were all government helicopters.

Given that these drones are surveillance craft, I see no reason why their use shouldn't be subject to the same surveillance warrants. Good for Rand.

We routinely have helicopters flying above DC airspaces for all manner of things. Usually its because some MS-13 guy is on the lamb from his lawful pursuers.

**Mr.TaterSalad** · 06-13-2012, 11:43 PM

Rand has to make nice with his father's supporters, so I am guessing the their is some political timing related to this bill. Nonetheless I am glad to finally see some regulation of domestic drone use, whatever their use may be, surveillance or otherwise.

**RedRamage** · 06-14-2012, 10:10 AM

I guess it depends on what type of surveillance is being done. For instance, a cop doesn't need to a warrant to follow me around town if he thinks I'm up to no good. Obviously he needs one to try to monitor me inside my house.

**ballmich** · 06-14-2012, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by RedRamage

I guess it depends on what type of surveillance is being done. For instance, a cop doesn't need to a warrant to follow me around town if he thinks I'm up to no good. Obviously he needs one to try to monitor me inside my house.

You have been completely brainwashed by a society that wants you to think that. No, the police do not have a right to follow you around town if they "think" you are up to no good. They need probable cause. Without probable cause, that is a violation of your civil rights. And harrassment as well.

**ballmich** · 06-14-2012, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

See many helicopters above your house? This is basically the same isn't it?

The ghetto birds like to circle your neighborhood? When I was younger, I lived in a neighborhood like that.

And no, helicopters above your house is not the same. They are there in pursuit of someone, typically someone they intend to arrest, and have probable cause. Drones above your home have no probable cause and are a violaton of a person's right against unreasonable search and seizure.

**screwball** · 06-14-2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

You have been completely brainwashed by a society that wants you to think that. No, the police do not have a right to follow you around town if they "think" you are up to no good. They need probable cause. Without probable cause, that is a violation of your civil rights. And harrassment as well.

I don't know what the legal system has to say about that, but I'm with you.

I can't stand it when the cops are behind me. I don't trust them (small town, they are Barny Fife's) and want to be left the hell alone. I feel like I'm being harassed.

I got a speeding ticket a few months ago. He had me, no doubt about it. When he came up to the car I told him I was toast, give me the ticket. He drilled me like I was a criminal axe murderer or something for about 5 minutes. It was all I could do to not go off on him. My fuse had just about run out. Give me the ticket or shut up. This wasn't the first time either.

**Melody** · 06-14-2012, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

We routinely have helicopters flying above DC airspaces for all manner of things. Usually its because some MS-13 guy is on the lamb from his lawful pursuers.

Same here. (Spotlight shone into our back yard doesn't freak me out unless the dogs are barking.) Plus we get overhead traffic from the reserve base and there's a television station nearby with a helicopter.

But these are different from an unmanned drone with a law enforcement officer on camera with a joystick following someone around without his knowledge, or even just cruising around and peeking into high rise windows and back yards looking at the teenaged sunbathers.

**ROMAD1** · 06-14-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by Melody

Same here. (Spotlight shone into our back yard doesn't freak me out unless the dogs are barking.) Plus we get overhead traffic from the reserve base and there's a television station nearby with a helicopter.

But these are different from an unmanned drone with a law enforcement officer on camera with a joystick following someone around without his knowledge, or even just cruising around and peeking into high rise windows and back yards looking at the teenaged sunbathers.

Actually there is a good point there...the very quiet of the drone makes it intrusive. If you hear a helicopter you can put on some clothes/or do whatever to avoid scrutiny.

**Mr. DNA** · 06-14-2012, 03:09 PM

Drones will be everywhere within 10 years. There is a lot of money for politically well-connected defense contractors to make by selling drones to local, state, federal, and immigration law enforcement agencies. The mountains of Pakistan or some wretched corner of Somalia are far too limiting for a product with such massive profit potential. It's a done deal. Look at how militarized our cops already have become, like that story of the SWAT team gunning down some poor chap's dog because a couple pounds of marijuana were mistakenly delivered to his doorstep.

**RedRamage** · 06-15-2012, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by ballmich

You have been completely brainwashed by a society that wants you to think that. No, the police do not have a right to follow you around town if they "think" you are up to no good. They need probable cause. Without probable cause, that is a violation of your civil rights. And harrassment as well.

It's a violation of my rights if a policeman shadows me when I'm in public?

Perhaps I should have clarified "thinks I'm up to no good." What I mean is while he may not have directly seen me perform a crime, something I'm doing is suspicious enough that he wants to find out more... again in public.

**DetroitCity313** · 06-15-2012, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

You have been completely brainwashed by a society that wants you to think that. No, the police do not have a right to follow you around town if they "think" you are up to no good. They need probable cause. Without probable cause, that is a violation of your civil rights. And harrassment as well.

What is "probable cause"? That means nothing in the real world. If police want to search you or follow you they will. They can always claim you appeared nervous or suspicious or smelled like weed.

**sub rosa** · 06-17-2012, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by ballmich

You have been completely brainwashed by a society that wants you to think that. No, the police do not have a right to follow you around town if they "think" you are up to no good. They need probable cause. Without probable cause, that is a violation of your civil rights. And harrassment as well.

police don't need probable cause (or even a reasonable suspicion) to follow you around town. if you are out and about in public, police are free to observe you all they want without violating your rights.

**sub rosa** · 06-17-2012, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

What is "probable cause"? That means nothing in the real world. If police want to search you or follow you they will. They can always claim you appeared nervous or suspicious or smelled like weed.

searching is different than following, and yes, police can easily manufacture a reason to briefly stop someone and ask questions. for that, they simply need a "reasonable, articulable suspicion" that someone has been or is currently involved in criminal activity. you want to put an officer on the spot - ask him or her if you are free to go. if so, then leave without answering questions. if not, ask them why they have stopped you (or why they are continuing to detain you).

**CMRivdog** · 06-17-2012, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Melody

Same here. (Spotlight shone into our back yard doesn't freak me out unless the dogs are barking.) Plus we get overhead traffic from the reserve base and there's a television station nearby with a helicopter.

But these are different from an unmanned drone with a law enforcement officer on camera with a joystick following someone around without his knowledge, or even just cruising around and peeking into high rise windows and back yards looking at the teenaged sunbathers.

Nothing new, used to do it all the time on slow traffic days. :)