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Thread: Trayvon Martin
03-24-2012, 11:49 AM #201
Another example would be seeing someone actually commit a crime. If my wife came upon someone getting raped, I'd tell her to run away and call the police. If a guy came upon someone getting raped and did not do something to stop it right away, he better have some very good explanation for me not to think less of him. Guess i'm just saying there are circumstances that warrant approaching someone regardless if you think it's just suspicious or you're actually seeing something.VT
03-24-2012, 11:54 AM #202
I also want to point out I was hoodie profiled jogging one night by the police. They didn't do anything different than I would expect a normal person would do in terms of just confirm I wasn't a threat, they started a conversation with me. A quick conversation resulted in them telling me to have a good night.
This zimmerman guy knew there was going to be trouble when he approached this kid. I don't think he expected to shoot him, but he expected trouble and called the police to cover his ***.VT
03-24-2012, 12:41 PM #203
One important difference re your encounter with the police was that you knew who they were because they were in a squad car and wearing uniforms. I have to say that if I was walking somewhere and an unshaven, large man pulled over his SUV then started following me, I'd be scared!
03-24-2012, 01:28 PM #204
Seems to me that Al Sharpton has basically been controversy-free for years now, possibly decades -- beyond basically staying alive. He'll never live down Tawana Brawley, and rightly so, because he was duped. That's on him, for sure. I'm not aware of recent incidents. Feel free to point some out. The video doesn't provide dates for these statements.
On the other hand, Rush Limbaugh can't seem to go an entire day without publicly disparaging somebody's heritage. I don't think you can't seriously equate the two, let alone maintain that Limbaugh's rotten behavior is basically nothing compared to Al Sharpton.
03-24-2012, 01:32 PM #205
03-24-2012, 01:44 PM #206
I did see the "Wanted Dead Or Alive" poster, though -- I thought it was interesting that they used Trayvon Martin's picture on the poster instead of the killer's picture. I wonder what the thinking behind that was?
03-24-2012, 01:51 PM #207
Interesting article in the Tribune today about how African America parents have to have a special conversation with their sons about how to avoid certain social situation and potential pitfalls, unique to their simply being black. I don't think any of us who are white can ever really understand what it means to have to do this.
Black parents live with the fear their son could be a Trayvon Martin - chicagotribune.com
What black parents tell their sons
Trayvon Martin's killing confirms worst fears
By Dahleen Glanton, Chicago Tribune reporter
March 24, 2012
When their son was about to enter his teens, Paul and Jeanne Miller, of Flossmoor, decided it was time to have the talk.
Because you are an African-American male, they told him, some people will make judgments about you and view you with suspicion based solely on your race.
Recently, as Jeremy, 16, was preparing to get his driver's license, his father told him what to do if he were ever stopped by police: Keep your hands visible on the steering wheel at all times.
And when he asked to take part in Assassins, a popular suburban game in which teens stalk each other with airsoft guns, his parents' answer was an unequivocal no, lest someone mistake the toy that fires plastic pellets for a real weapon.
The story of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin's death in Sanford, Fla., a suburb of Orlando, has struck a particularly sensitive chord with African-American parents such as the Millers, many of whom said they live with a nagging fear that their teenage boys could be harassed or attacked.
"We live in a fairly affluent interracial neighborhood with fantastic people who don't see color, but I know there are people out there who do," said Paul Miller. "I constantly tell him, 'Don't forget you're black.' I don't want him to run into that guy who does see color one day when he's walking down the street."
Martin was shot to death last month by a man on a neighborhood watch patrol who confronted the African-American teenager because he thought he looked suspicious in the gated community. Martin, who was unarmed, was walking back to his father's house after going to the store for a can of tea and candy.
George Zimmerman claimed he acted in self-defense when he shot Martin and was not charged in the shooting, prompting protests across the country, including two Friday in Chicago and one scheduled for noon Saturday at Daley Plaza.
The case once again placed a spotlight on race in America and forced discussions about the negative perceptions some people have regarding African-American men. The recurring theme at many of the rallies has been that Martin could have been the son of any African-American.
On Friday, President Barack Obama weighed in, saying, "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon."
"When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids," Obama said. "And I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together — federal, state and local — to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened."
With the election of Obama four years ago, some people mistakenly believe America is now a post-racial country, according to Cathy Cohen, a political science professor at the University of Chicago. But many young black men remain targets of racism that still exists, she said.
"The reality is that many Americans ... perceive young black men to be 'suspicious' individuals who will rob them, confront them and carry a firearm to threaten their safety, independent of whether it is true or not," said Cohen.
"Young black men go through the world being harassed, watched and stereotyped. They live with that every day, and far too many of us have ignored their reality," she said.
Marguerite Alston, of Chicago Heights, said she rarely allows her 16-year-old son, Michael, to walk home from school, but when he does, she insists that he goes with a group.
"At least there is another set of eyes if there's a problem," she said. "Someone can go and get help."
Sometimes, however, she worries when her son asks to go to a mall with a group of African-American boys, fearing that they could be accused of making trouble even if they are not.
"I know they are good kids, but it's like a red flag goes up in people's mind when they see a group of black boys," said Alston. "The first thing they think about is what they see on the news or what they've heard about. And just that quickly, something could go wrong."
Michael said he is familiar with the suspicious look to which his mother is referring.
"Sometimes when you are in certain areas that don't have a lot of black young men around, people might watch you a little more, and it can be uncomfortable," he said. "It makes me feel like I don't belong there. Not necessarily scared, but it makes me feel out of place."
Alston and her husband, Jeff, started talking to their son when he was a preteen. Growing up, Alston's five brothers had the same conversations with their mother, who stressed the importance of telling Alston's son how to avoid racially charged confrontations, Alston said.
African-American men long have claimed that they are unfairly harassed by police while driving, particularly in predominantly white neighborhoods. It has become so common that it is referred to as "driving while black."
There are tools their children can use to lessen the chances that a routine police stop could escalate into violence, they said, but there is no way to prepare them for situations such as the one that left Martin, who was wearing a hoodie and talking on a cellphone, dead.
"I have a group of kids who get stopped just walking down the street. Their pants are not even hanging off their behind. They don't have on any hoodies. They're just going through everyday life," said Cecil Reddit, who mentors teenage boys and facilitates a fathers support group for Family Focus Lawndale.
The challenge for many parents is how to prepare the boys without frightening them or making them feel their parents are being overly protective. It is also important, they said, not to make them feel as though they are less important than anyone else.
"I get very angry about this because, as Americans, we are all men," said Reddit. "We should be able to live the same way everyone else is doing and not be targeted for these types of things, but it is reality."
Jocilyn Floyd, a single mother raising a 7-year-old son in the West Chesterfield neighborhood on the South Side, said she already has begun teaching him to understand what it means to be African-American, though he is fair-skinned with green eyes and sandy brown hair.
"He is just black enough but not white enough," said Floyd, adding that her son's father is half Italian. "I'm trying to get him to understand that he can't follow along with everybody. He can't get into trouble like some kids and that you have to be careful that you're not pegged the kid with bad behavior."
To keep him grounded, she said, she has enrolled him in a private Afrocentric school, which she hopes will give him more self-esteem. But she acknowledges that how people perceive him is out of her hands.
"My concern for my son would be that, by perception or ignorance, that he could easily be a victim of an incident just like Trayvon if he's in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Floyd. "There is no way to prepare him for walking down the street while being black. When he gets older, I can guarantee you there will be a part of me that will be terrified and praying every day."
03-24-2012, 01:54 PM #208
Comments on gays
Sharpton was quoted as saying to an audience at Kean College in 1994 that, “White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” Sharpton defended his comments by noting that the term "homo" was not homophobic but added that he no longer uses the term. Sharpton has since called for an end to homophobia in the African-American community.
Comments on Mormons
During 2007, Sharpton was accused of bigotry for comments he made on May 7, 2007, concerning presidential candidate Mitt Romney and his religion, Mormonism:
"As for the one Mormon running for office, those who really believe in God will defeat him anyways, so don't worry about that; that's a temporary situation." In response, a representative for Romney told reporters that "bigotry toward anyone because of their beliefs is unacceptable." The Catholic League compared Sharpton to Don Imus, and said that his remarks "should finish his career".
On May 9, during an interview on Paula Zahn NOW, Sharpton said that his views on Mormonism were based on the "Mormon Church's traditionally racist views regarding blacks" and its interpretation of the so-called "Curse of Ham". On May 10, Sharpton called two apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and apologized to them for his remarks and asked to meet with them. A spokesman for the Church confirmed that Sharpton had called and said that "we appreciate it very much, Rev. Sharpton's call, and we consider the matter closed." He also apologized to "any member of the Mormon church" who was offended by his comments. Later that month, Sharpton went to Salt Lake City, Utah, where he met with Elder M. Russell Ballard, a leader of the Church, and Elder Robert C. Oaks of the Church's Presidency of the Seventy.
Last edited by Gehringer_2; 03-24-2012 at 01:56 PM."Well that's it - you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear" - Rock Man
03-24-2012, 02:05 PM #209
And, I got an Airman of the Month award during my Air Force basic training for knowing the specific charges he was convicted on...illegal possession of a firearm.
03-24-2012, 02:22 PM #210
Listening to the 911, Zimmerman is told NOT to follow the kid....
I find it a little contemptible that Newt thought it was disgraceful that the President would consol the parents or identify with what he would think if his daughters had been harmed and how he could pitcher Trayvon as his son.. sad... really sad
Newt Gingrich: Obama's Trayvon Martin Statement 'Disgraceful'
03-24-2012, 02:28 PM #211
I sense this still has new layers
03-24-2012, 02:46 PM #212
03-24-2012, 02:57 PM #213
Even absent the phone call to the cops, it is simply isn't a good idea to pursue and confront a stranger because they look suspicious. How likely is it that doing so is going to prevent a crime compared against the negative possibility of an altercation?
I think most would agree it is not unacceptable behavior for a citizen to try to stop a guy from assaulting a woman.
03-24-2012, 03:16 PM #214
If the secret witness testimony of "John" is accurate and not some red herring, it changes a lot of the dynamic. If Zimmerman and Martin were indeed in an actual punches thrown fight...it is odd that Zimmerman could then draw on him. Supposedly "John" says that Zimmerman's face was beaten to a bloody pulp from this fight and it was this basis that the cops let him off.
03-24-2012, 03:20 PM #215"Well that's it - you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear" - Rock Man
03-24-2012, 03:23 PM #216
03-24-2012, 03:32 PM #217
Last edited by Gehringer_2; 03-24-2012 at 03:34 PM."Well that's it - you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear" - Rock Man
03-24-2012, 03:36 PM #218
It would change that dynamic quite a bit but it still doesn't let him off the hook.
In some way I hope that's not a credible story because I fear we could see some nasty **** come about if this guy is charged with anything less than 2nd degree murder.
Imagine this scenario:
Zimmerman: "Hey! What are you doing?"
Martin: "What? Just going for a walk. Leave me alone."
Zimmerman: "It's raining..... "
"Martin: "So. Mind your own business."
Zimemrman: "Punk..... " walks away
Martin: "What did you call me? Hey... what did you say?"
Zimmerman: "You are an *******."
Martin: "**** you.... who the **** do you think you are?"
Zimmerman: "Go home ******..."
then at that point there's a fight, Martin gets the upper hand in the fight, Zimmerman feels threatened, and shoots him.
Nah... after thinking about it I don't think it changes the dynamic all that much. Even if Martin beat him up or whatever, he still shoudln't have been bothered to begin with and I'm not going to fault a 16 year old kid for not making the right decision. And further it still doesn't warrant getting shot in the chest..
03-24-2012, 04:10 PM #219
03-24-2012, 04:10 PM #220
03-24-2012, 04:13 PM #221
This is good, it is kind of hard to draw this up so Zimmerman has some kind of correctness here. Especially after 911 tells him to back away and wait for the police who are on the way.
If you give Zimmerman no room for doubt, you have to assume he acted like he did because: 1) he knew he would have police back up and 2) he wanted to pull some crap while he had a chance
03-24-2012, 04:18 PM #222
Some of this is that I am not as confrontational as Zimmerman appears to be... but if I called 911 and told them there was a suspicious person in my neighborhood and was told an officer was on the way and NOT to keep following the guy... I won't get my hands dirty in a confrontation.
not sure why Trayvon had to be an angel to not be shot... lot of dead people if you need wings to not get shot
03-24-2012, 04:28 PM #223"Well that's it - you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear" - Rock Man
03-24-2012, 04:48 PM #224
03-24-2012, 05:03 PM #225
good luck proving anything against this guy.2003 Tigers = 2010 Tigers
2012 AAT: Josue Carreno 0-2, 3.30 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 2.4 BB/9, 7.8 K/9
03-24-2012, 05:23 PM #226World Series or Bust. Guess What? Bust........again.
03-24-2012, 06:34 PM #227
Spent the last couple hours in and out on the Mad Dog radio show listening to them on this. Skewering the Miami Heat for the show of political hoodicorrectness. They played all the 911 calls where the eyewitness describe the fight and the screaming. Then the gunshot.
Lots of calls from cops to the show that there are countless black on black murders that do not have Sharpton and Jackson, Granholm and the rest of the ever lovin Liberal world down making a show. Zimmerman deserves justice but he will be hard pressed to get it. Actual justice that is.
addendum: They say they read an e-mail to ESPN employees that stipulated that they were not to mention this story at all on social media.
03-24-2012, 06:35 PM #228
Edit: I was going to let this ride, but have to comment Chasfh. You suggest I fabricated this statement. This perception causes me disappointment about someone I respect, but to put it in print publically quite angers me. Note I somehow still respected your last request even though I have no reason any longer to do so.
Last edited by hueytaxi; 03-24-2012 at 10:31 PM.Live your life for what it can be and not for what it was.
MMXIV AAT: KYLE RYAN; MMXV AAT: KYLE RYAN
03-24-2012, 09:35 PM #229
This is beginning to feel like a case I can't see ending well for anybody.This spot, and a place in my heart, is reserved for TC.
03-24-2012, 09:47 PM #230Obama '12
2012 MSU Football Unofficial Adopt-A-Spartan - Larry Caper
03-24-2012, 11:18 PM #231
03-24-2012, 11:24 PM #232
huey, I couldn't possibly have any idea what it was you heard, exactly. All I know is that I see no quotes from anyone in that black panther club matching what you quoted, and I looked around really hard. I take quotes very seriously, and the quote you offered up was really incendiary. It worries me when quotes that may not have been made "as is" get repeated and taken at face value. Nothing serious would ever come of that here among our tightknit little group, but out in the real world, mischaracterized statements offered up as quotes that spread can lead to really ugly consequences.
Maybe I'm more sensitive to that than most. Anyway, that's why I flag that kind of thing. It's nothing personal. It never was. Fair warning, I'll probably flag that kind of thing again, regardless of who says it or from what side of the spectrum. Not always, but when it feels necessary to me. I get that it's not an endearing quality, but when important matters are being discussed, quotes and sourcing are things I feel strongly about. And I welcome you or anyone else to challenge me on that point when you see fit.
Last edited by chasfh; 03-24-2012 at 11:39 PM.
03-24-2012, 11:50 PM #233
This has become the funeral of Paul Wellstone...an orgy of a liberal pep rally that won't end well for the Left. And you on the Left know that.
Mainly because most common people, the ones who vote...follow the Costanza rule wrt to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton...do the opposite.
Last edited by ROMAD1; 03-24-2012 at 11:53 PM.
03-25-2012, 12:09 AM #234
The Wellstone tragedy led Mondale to become the first guy to lose an election in all 50 states..
03-25-2012, 12:10 AM #235
So what does Zimmerman do at this point? If he is indicted, should he release a statement? The Sanford police recorded his original statement(s?), so that is public record. Should he add anything in his defense or allow prosecution to prove their case if there is one?Live your life for what it can be and not for what it was.
MMXIV AAT: KYLE RYAN; MMXV AAT: KYLE RYAN
03-25-2012, 12:19 AM #236"Well that's it - you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear" - Rock Man
03-25-2012, 12:33 AM #237
which makes it a bit more rhetorical than Marshall Jed Cooper style.
Group offers $10,000 for US black teen's killer - Yahoo! News"Well that's it - you see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear" - Rock Man
03-25-2012, 11:57 AM #238
- Join Date
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I have no ****ing idea what this means.
Explain it to stupid me, because I can't for the life of me figure out how Wellstone's situation equates to the death of this kid, and why "LEFT" people (who evidentally should never be considered "common people" according to you), should be thinking this won't end well for "US".
If you would, please forgive my ignorance and explain it to me.Of all the things in life I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
03-25-2012, 11:59 AM #239
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Blog Entries
I'm out of here for a while.
I just can't take labeling and negativity anymore.Of all the things in life I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
03-25-2012, 12:45 PM #240
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