Trayvon Martin

[ROMAD1]

Some men, you just can't reach.

That film contains so much religious subtext that it flabbergasts me when people I talk to don't realize that. Besides the obvious "Plastic Jesus" song moment.

[chasfh]

I never dug into it that deeply. I just wanted to flag the "some men, yoou just can't reach" line. I thought it was apropos.

[ROMAD1]

I never dug into it that deeply. I just wanted to flag the "some men, yoou just can't reach" line. I thought it was apropos.

Next time you watch it...just see how much the story/his fate shifts when he openly challenges God... and of course the scene of him on the table spread out after his egg eating challenge is Calvary or Golgotha.

[Melody]

Demanding that the police arrest Zimmerman constitutes "mob vigilantism demanding mob imposed "'justice'"?

Huh ... who knew?

The part about if he wasn't arrested they would do it, "and if we do, it won't be pretty," sure sounds like mob vigilantism to me.

The protests are great. Citizens need to let their government know that they are watching and expect justice. And I think that those wronged need to see that they don't stand alone in this. But threats like this are counterproductive. It's sad that whenever something gets national notice, attention harlots who make their livings meddling and agitating come in by the busload and change the dialogue.

[pfife]

It appears Obama has now entered the frey...

I'm hoping this (along with Sharpton) doesn't cause fractures in what appears to be a pretty universal feeling that Zimmerman should be charged.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

yeah, I've thought about Huey's post quite a bit since I read it last night.

I do think that there's a certain problem with the people who tend to try to benefit themselves on any remotely race issue going there being the loudest voices, I think this tends to turn a lot of people off, and that disappoints me because I think there's a big issue here that might get overlooked because of this.

this seems to happen with every major protest. they start out with a high level of support/coverage, then one whacko or a group of extremists make a statement or do something while protesting, and then a large portion of the general population watching freaks, focuses on the outliers, and withdraws their support or becomes functionally indifferent for the original cause.

[smr-nj]

The part about if he wasn't arrested they would do it, "and if we do, it won't be pretty," sure sounds like mob vigilantism to me.

The protests are great. Citizens need to let their government know that they are watching and expect justice. And I think that those wronged need to see that they don't stand alone in this. But threats like this are counterproductive. It's sad that whenever something gets national notice, attention harlots who make their livings meddling and agitating come in by the busload and change the dialogue.

I couldn't have said it better.
+1

[Oblong]

It appears Obama has now entered the frey...

I'm hoping this (along with Sharpton) doesn't cause fractures in what appears to be a pretty universal feeling that Zimmerman should be charged.

That's my fear. Who is the bad guy here? Zimmerman and a few authorities in Florida. Other than that it looks like everybody else agrees this was a dumb thing.

The singular issue is a no brainer but if this gets turned into a bunch of other things and draws out the usual groups you see at protests, then it'll hurt the singular cause because people will just turn away and not want to be bothered.

This issue doesn't need Farrakhan and Sharpton.

[chasfh]

The part about if he wasn't arrested they would do it, "and if we do, it won't be pretty," sure sounds like mob vigilantism to me.

The protests are great. Citizens need to let their government know that they are watching and expect justice. And I think that those wronged need to see that they don't stand alone in this. But threats like this are counterproductive. It's sad that whenever something gets national notice, attention harlots who make their livings meddling and agitating come in by the busload and change the dialogue.

See, this is the part that's confusing me. I can't find any evidence that anyone connected to the New Black Panther Party said, "arrest Zimmerman or we will, and if we do, it won't be pretty". The only source I have seen for that so far is hueytaxi's post. Can you please help me locate that source? Because I've googled all over the place and I'm stumped.

[Melody]

See, this is the part that's confusing me. I can't find any evidence that anyone connected to the New Black Panther Party said, "arrest Zimmerman or we will, and if we do, it won't be pretty". The only source I have seen for that so far is hueytaxi's post. Can you please help me locate that source? Because I've googled all over the place and I'm stumped.

My source is Roger, but I have no reason to believe that he didn't see or hear this on his local news. The thing is that those of us who don't live down there don't have the same access.

To give credit where due, evidently Sharpton's speech yesterday included a statement about being dignified, etc.

Despite his harsh rhetoric, Sharpton warned the thousands in attendance to avoid resorting to violence at all costs as the Martin case progresses. “I want our people to understand that how you behave is going to be a reflection on this case,” Sharpton instructed the crowd. “[No matter] how angry we get, don’t let them make you act in a way that they will say, ‘see, that’s what to think with Trayvon.’”

“We are going to act intelligent,” Sharpton said. “We going to act dignified. And, we’re going to be determined. We may be angry, but we’re not mad dogs. We’re too smart to fall for [that].”



Read more: Al Sharpton | Sanford Florida | Trayvon Martin Rally | The Daily Caller

[Motor City Sonics]

When I hear the term "stand your ground" it makes me think that the person standing ground was the one threatened. Trayvon Martin was not pursuing George Zimmerman, not the other way around....so it was Trayvon that had the right to stand his ground.

Geraldo Rivera said that wearing the hoodie was enough to cause suspicion. Does that mean we get to kill Bill Belichick?

And right, there are not many people defending Zimmerman on any side here. This thing is negligent homicide at the very least, isn't it?

[ROMAD1]

When I hear the term "stand your ground" it makes me think that the person standing ground was the one threatened. Trayvon Martin was not pursuing George Zimmerman, not the other way around....so it was Trayvon that had the right to stand his ground.

Geraldo Rivera said that wearing the hoodie was enough to cause suspicion. Does that mean we get to kill Bill Belichick?

And right, there are not many people defending Zimmerman on any side here. This thing is negligent homicide at the very least, isn't it?

When Gov Granholm sees a young kid in hoodie on a darkened night...do you think she doesn't cross the road?

BTW, this is sort of a bad-a## look for her. She's always been a fox. Even if I think a politically misguided one.

[Motor City Sonics]

When Gov Granholm sees a young kid in hoodie on a darkened night...do you think she doesn't cross the road?

BTW, this is sort of a bad-a## look for her. She's always been a fox. Even if I think a politically misguided one.

We're not talking about crossing the road. We're talking about killing here. There is a bit of a difference. George Zimmerman should have stayed back and let the police deal with it -since they actually know how to deal with it. You really are trying to justify this, aren't you? Keep trying - it's never gonna work here.

[ROMAD1]

We're not talking about crossing the road. We're talking about killing here. There is a bit of a difference. George Zimmerman should have stayed back and let the police deal with it -since they actually know how to deal with it. You really are trying to justify this, aren't you? Keep trying - it's never gonna work here.

Back the bleep down...not justifying anything. It was some screwball shooting a kid. I'm not on anyone's side. Granholm in the hoodie isn't going to help you or anyone.

[Motor City Sonics]

Back the bleep down...not justifying anything. It was some screwball shooting a kid. I'm not on anyone's side. Granholm in the hoodie isn't going to help you or anyone.

She does look good in it. Sorry this thing has me upset too and I am a suburban white guy. It's like when the cops in Detroit shot and killed the deaf/mute that had a metal rake a few years ago. The man was a bit slow and very confused......What, can't keep backing up? Can't shoot him in the leg? Zimmerman was looking for a fight and he picked a defenseless kid half his age. He did SOMETHING wrong. I understand it may not have been first degree murder (or even second degree), but it has to be something because I don't see how "stand your ground" counts here when HE was the pursuer.

[chasfh]

My source is Roger, but I have no reason to believe that he didn't see or hear this on his local news. The thing is that those of us who don't live down there don't have the same access.

hueytaxi, can you help us locate this?

[ROMAD1]

She does look good in it. Sorry this thing has me upset too and I am a suburban white guy. It's like when the cops in Detroit shot and killed the deaf/mute that had a metal rake a few years ago. The man was a bit slow and very confused......What, can't keep backing up? Can't shoot him in the leg? Zimmerman was looking for a fight and he picked a defenseless kid half his age. He did SOMETHING wrong. I understand it may not have been first degree murder (or even second degree), but it has to be something because I don't see how "stand your ground" counts here when HE was the pursuer.

What is interesting (particularly from your other thread) is the level of emotion that this raised. I don't deny anyone their well earned angst over the racial undertones. I just think the involvement/interest of a Granholm signifies a level of something I can't put my finger on. Expediency, hypocrisy.

I stand for my right to blast to smithereens someone who tries to harm me or my family. I agree that this case does not appear to be that.

[sub rosa]

apparently the black panthers are circulating a "wanted dead or alive" poster. this story is from orlando (and includes video report by the lovely tiffany teasley who at one time worked in lansing).

New Black Panthers demand shooter's arrest while distributing controversial flier

Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 2:16 PM EDT

Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 2:13 PM EDT

TIFFANY TEASLEY | FOX 35 News

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Members of the New Black Panther Party made their voices heard outside the Sanford Police Department Thursday, calling for justice for 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, shot and killed nearly a month ago.
“Justice must come to the City of Sanford, justice must come to black people," said Mikhail Muhammad, Southern Regional Minister of New Black Panther Party.
“We want to make sure that right now this doesn’t happen again, not just this community, but no community in America,” said James Evans Muhammad of the Black Power Movement.
Not only did members of the panther party demand that George Zimmerman, the man who admitted to shooting martin, be arrested, they also said if the police won’t find him, they will.
“George Zimmerman, I want to tell you today, you cannot hide George, we’re going to find you -- we’re calling on George Zimmerman to turn his self in or we will have to find him our self and turn him in,” said Muhammad.
Members also called for the Sanford Police Chief to permanently step down, and handed out flyers with George Zimmerman’s picture saying in big bold letters “wanted dead or alive,” a statement they say shouldn’t be taken literally.
“He’s already dead any time a man is running from a crime he know he killed someone, he’s already dead, he’s mentally and spiritually dead,” Muhammad said.
“When we say wanted dead or alive, look at the history of black people, this man is dangerous to the community,” Evans Muhammad said.
Along with the Panther Party were members of the Sanford community also calling for Zimmerman’s arrest.
“Do something with him, don’t let him just keep walking around free as a bird like I killed him and it’s alright, cause it’s not,” said Bernice Hayes of Sanford.
Community members say tension between Sanford Police and the black community has been escalating for years, and they’re hoping Martin’s case changes their city for the better
“I want to see this police department become unbiased and treat everyone the same, that includes George Zimmerman,” said protester Rita Lucey.
The New Black Panther Party also says they plan to hold community forums this week, to allow people in the Sanford community to voice their frustrations.

Controversial flyer targets George Zimmerman

[DetroitCity313]

That's my fear. Who is the bad guy here? Zimmerman and a few authorities in Florida. Other than that it looks like everybody else agrees this was a dumb thing.

The singular issue is a no brainer but if this gets turned into a bunch of other things and draws out the usual groups you see at protests, then it'll hurt the singular cause because people will just turn away and not want to be bothered.

This issue doesn't need Farrakhan and Sharpton.

From what I saw, Sharpton was the first one to make this national news. Without him, this dies slowly in the Florida press.

[chasfh]

Why would anyone be upset that Al Sharpton and other national figures are coming to Florida to participate in the protests? They are national leaders, and the community who is protesting certainly welcome them with open arms, because they know Sharpton lends gravity and importance to their protests.

Far from being there because they are attention whores, I think they believe, correctly, that they have a responsibility to this community to be involved, show their support and voice the concerns of the aggrieved community in a safe and respectful manner. Their physical presence and verbal support are a Mitzvah.

[Melody]

From what I saw, Sharpton was the first one to make this national news. Without him, this dies slowly in the Florida press.

That's not correct. I heard about it before Sharpton ever made a public statement about it. The family's attorney really got the ball rolling once he was able to get the 911 tapes.

[smr-nj]

From what I saw, Sharpton was the first one to make this national news. Without him, this dies slowly in the Florida press.

I'm pretty certain I saw the story on the national news once the 911 tapes were released, which is before Sharpton was involved.

Why would anyone be upset that Al Sharpton and other national figures are coming to Florida to participate in the protests? They are national leaders, and the community who is protesting certainly welcome them with open arms, because they know Sharpton lends gravity and importance to their protests.

Far from being there because they are attention whores, I think they believe, correctly, that they have a responsibility to this community to be involved, show their support and voice the concerns of the aggrieved community in a safe and respectful manner. Their physical presence and verbal support are a Mitzvah.

I have a little longer history of Sharpton involvement, going way back in the day in NYC, and it wasn't pretty. The first time was Tawana Brawley. I look at everything he's involved in with a jaundiced eye since then, which is too bad because many situations warrant having a strong community leader voice concerns. I just see Sharpton as forever stained.

Regardless, one thing has nothing to do with this other - i.e. - the Panther pamphlet. It is not a welcome addition to this tragedy.

[Oblong]

Weren't ther recent Sharpton tapes released where he was talking about "chinamen" and gays?

Sorry, but he's a racist. That's why people should be upset. He's a swindling racist whore.

[Oblong]

UNCOVERED: NBC News Star Sharpton's Racial, Homophobic Rants

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Let me ask a hypothetical question:

If in the later weeks we find out Trayvon was up to no good, had been up to no good for a while now, but had managed to keep it secret and somehow Zimmerman knew he was a bad kid up to no good and was just doing what he thought best for the community (not the killing someone part) and the confrontation ended in an accidental shooting (which this probably was NOT, but for the sake of argument) would you still feel the same about the whole situation?

Even if Trayvon were Adolf Hitler reincarnated (yes - a Hitler reference!), it would not make what Zimmerman did correct.

It isn't Zimmerman's job to be dispensing justice, plain and simple.

[chasfh]

I can see why Breitbart readers who think that Rush Limbaugh's remarks were "relatively tame" and who hate the "leftist media" would be highly exercised by the selectively edited, unsourced, context-free tape.

[Oblong]

You want to defend Sharpton go ahead. You think that's the extent of his ranting? That it needs to be edited?

He's a bona fide bigot and whore. Makes Limbaugh look like Tim Russert. Apparantly MSNBC thinks he fits right in with them.

[hueytaxi]

hueytaxi, can you help us locate this?

W/O reviewing the last couple of pages, it reads like you are asking about the spokesperson for the New Black Panthers. If so, I have not seen the statement in print. This was at a 5 PM press conference covered by our local NBC affiliate in which an attorney for the Martins spooke and introduced sharpton. I sort of turned off on him and suddenly there was this spokesperson ranting his vigilante rhetoric. Interesting, it was not replayed at 11 PM.

[fyrftrjim]

I don't know what to make of this situation, now there is a witness that says, Martin assaulted Zimmerman 1st, and the screams were Zimmerman, they are also saying Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, and was bleeding to the back of the head, I was in Trayvon Martin's corner on this but I just don't know.

The one thing I do know is Zimmerman disobeyed the 911 dispatcher's advise and not to follow him, and a senseless killing of a 17 year old kid happened, whether Trayvon was up to no good or not, my opinion this didn't need to happen. I just pray the truth comes out.

[Ingefanclub]

If you really believe that Sanford, Florida is like Alabama in the early 1960's I hope you are wrong. I did not know a police force would stand behind a killing like this. There has got to be something that the police are witholding about this death.

Zimmerman sounds very nervous on the phone call to the police. He sounds mentally unstable.
But why the police would not arrest him is beyond me and I hope they have a sound reason as to why they have not pressed any charges as of yet.

[Gehringer_2]

I don't know what to make of this situation, now there is a witness that says, Martin assaulted Zimmerman 1st, and the screams were Zimmerman, they are also saying Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, and was bleeding to the back of the head, I was in Trayvon Martin's corner on this but I just don't know.

The one thing I do know is Zimmerman disobeyed the 911 dispatcher's advise and not to follow him, and a senseless killing of a 17 year old kid happened, whether Trayvon was up to no good or not, my opinion this didn't need to happen. I just pray the truth comes out.

So if you chase someone down who is lawfully where they are supposed to be, you accost them, and *they* 'stand their ground' by decking you with a right cross breaking your nose, that's a problem. But if you shoot him the law will cover you? IDK, I guess maybe a nice neat tasteful bullet hole would be the more aesthetically pleasing outcome to a culture soaked in TV gun violence?

EDIT: Look, maybe the police in Sanford aren't blazing racists, but at the very least they were lazy enough to have fallen prey to all their own worst stereotyping when they arrived on the scene and just assumed a valiant citizen had put down a gang-banger and so didn't bother to do their jobs.

As always for the bureaucracy - regardless of what the nature of the precipitating act was - the ensuing effort to stonewall and avoid responsibility for their own mistakes in the aftermath magnifies the situation 100 fold.

Think about it. If the cops had done a reasonable investigation at the scene, Zimmerman gets arrested - probably can plead it down to involuntary manslaughter, serve minimal time - maybe even get an acquittal claiming it was all accidental - and it's a still a tragedy that ruins two families but it never gets beyond the local papers.

[ROMAD1]

all this mobilization of people power reminds me of the movie Gandhi. That all worked out well, didn't it?

[Gehringer_2]

all this mobilization of people power reminds me of the movie Gandhi. That all worked out well, didn't it?

Hmm....compared to what alternative?

[ROMAD1]

Hmm....compared to what alternative?

well, they did a lot of acting and everyone won awards.

[ewsieg]

George Zimmerman should have stayed back and let the police deal with it -since they actually know how to deal with it.

I do disagree with this statement, or at least want to point out its not universal. All to often it has become the police's job to document crime and not necessarily prevent it. I have no issues with someone defending his home and community and wish more people would take it upon themselves to actively watch their community.

That being said, when you have a gun, regardless if you're a cop or just a citizen, you owe it to others to keep a level head. Everything i've read from this is that Zimmerman instigated and escalated this, then finished it by shooting this kid. I don't think we have a 1st degree murder charge on our hand, but the minimum that should be charged is reckless homicide (or the equivalent in FL).

[Motor City Sonics]

I do disagree with this statement, or at least want to point out its not universal. All to often it has become the police's job to document crime and not necessarily prevent it. I have no issues with someone defending his home and community and wish more people would take it upon themselves to actively watch their community.

That being said, when you have a gun, regardless if you're a cop or just a citizen, you owe it to others to keep a level head. Everything i've read from this is that Zimmerman instigated and escalated this, then finished it by shooting this kid. I don't think we have a 1st degree murder charge on our hand, but the minimum that should be charged is reckless homicide (or the equivalent in FL).

Yes, the man was defending his home against Skittles.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I do disagree with this statement, or at least want to point out its not universal. All to often it has become the police's job to document crime and not necessarily prevent it. I have no issues with someone defending his home and community and wish more people would take it upon themselves to actively watch their community.

There is nothing wrong with watching one's community or home.

That written, it isn't a citizen's job to pursue and confront another who has not committed a crime simply because they look suspicious.

[Motor City Sonics]

There is nothing wrong with watching one's community or home.

That written, it isn't a citizen's job to pursue and confront another who has not committed a crime simply because they look suspicious.

This is exactly the problem. Sure you can protect your neighborhood - we all should look out for each other. I am glad I have two retired cops on my block and one of them called the cops one morning where cars were being broken into - and then the cops came and arrested him. THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT !

You can't go after people that look suspicious because that definition is totally different to everyone. Cops are trained to deal with situations like this. George Zimmerman was not. Neighborhood Watch folks all over this country are told to stay out of it - call the cops and keep tabs on where a suspicious person may be - and that's it - and that is exactly what Zimmerman was told by the dispatcher.

[ROMAD1]

Girl at the window of my local McDonalds was wearing a hoodie. I drew but decided not to shoot her. Although she forgot the butter and syrup for my kids pancakes.

[Gehringer_2]

Girl at the window of my local McDonalds was wearing a hoodie. I drew but decided not to shoot her. ....

Didn't look enough like Grandholm?(!)