We Are The 99 Percent---From Occupy Wall Street

[shabba4detroit]

That she is spoiled, doesn't know hardship, hasn't faced adversity.

No. Those are the conclusions I drew from the words on her paper.

[shabba4detroit]

TJ got it too. History might not repeat, but it rhymes.

You may want to run that Jefferson quote by Snopes. Inflation and deflation didn't exist as economic terms in Jefferson's lifetime.

[shabba4detroit]

So what do you suggest they do? Just not go to college?

It would be a start. It would certainly be more effective than waving signs at people who already have your money.

Other suggestions include going part time. Or starting at a community college and earning an associates degree first. Or getting certified in a particular field where you will be able to find work, eschewing the outdated liberal arts education.

[RedRamage]

You are making the same argument every generation before you has made. "OH these young kids today don't know hard work, they are spoiled and babied!"

If I may be so bold, you're making the same argument that every generation will make in the future. "Oh Adults these days don't understand... times are different. They had it easy. Things are a lot more complicated and complex these day. It's much harder to get through life!"

I'm going to turn 40 in just a few months. I'm sorta in that weird age where I'm not so old that I'm looking towards the end of my life... I'm not to the point where most of my life is behind me. But I'm certainly not so young as to be look at my life still being all ahead of me.

What I have realized though, is that life is a LOT more cyclical that I ever thought it was. Every generation feared that the young ones coming up where crazy. Every generation thought the one proceeding it was stuck in the past and didn't understand how the world should work.

[RedRamage]

Not realistic. You have different classes, different work schedules, different places you live. Sharing a cell phone doesn't work.

I remember when I was a kid we have a home line... my dad used it. My mom used it. My brother in collage used it. Me and my brother in highschool used it. My sister is Junior High (yeah, no middle school then) used it. My youngest brother was a little to young to use it much.

[belcherboy]

It would be a start. It would certainly be more effective than waving signs at people who already have your money.

Other suggestions include going part time. Or starting at a community college and earning an associates degree first. Or getting certified in a particular field where you will be able to find work, eschewing the outdated liberal arts education.

I know Dave Ramsey gets many calls about the economy, jobs, school, debt, etc. They often give the doom and gloom, and Dave usually points out that some of the greatest businesses this world has every seen came about in the 1930's. His suggestion to those callers is to figure out what they do well, and figure out how they can create an income doing it. During times of recession, businesses are looking for ways to save money much more than in times of plenty. They often will make a change to save a few bucks here and there. Create a reason for customers to give you money. It can be achieved without a college degree.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

OWS: Want To Turn The Tide?

Food for thought. Kind of long, but interesting.

I think the article has a number of salient points.

But I am fan of economic theory discussions.

[Oblong]

Other suggestions include going part time. Or starting at a community college and earning an associates degree first. Or getting certified in a particular field where you will be able to find work, eschewing the outdated liberal arts education.

If I were giving advice to someone in their mid teens I'd suggest learning a trade and then going the community college route. You are spot on about the liberal arts education. However the powers that be have too big a stake to get their careers in those colleges funded by student loans.

Learn to fix cars, build things, plumbing, electrician, carpentry...

[Who is the Drizzle?]

I remember when I was a kid we have a home line... my dad used it. My mom used it. My brother in collage used it. Me and my brother in highschool used it. My sister is Junior High (yeah, no middle school then) used it. My youngest brother was a little to young to use it much.

Same here. And in college my roommates and I all shared a ground line. In grad school my roommate and me each had a cell phone, basically we got that instead of cable tv. But a few people did use a ground line and calling card for long distance. After that I got a prepaid phone for $20, and it was 10 cents a minute. That was cheapest for me by far, but it depends on situation. It was costing me less than $10/month, but I'm not one to yak yak yak on the phone.

Point is, having pre-paid cell phone is not some great luxury for the spoiled youth.

And as far as it being cyclical, I'm sure every elder generation will ***** and moan about how easy kids have it nowadays as well.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

If I were giving advice to someone in their mid teens I'd suggest learning a trade and then going the community college route. You are spot on about the liberal arts education. However the powers that be have too big a stake to get their careers in those colleges funded by student loans.

Learn to fix cars, build things, plumbing, electrician, carpentry...

I agree that the first couple years in college are largely a waste, but I'm not sure having less educated people is good for the country. And it's not like the construction/housing industry is exactly booming, so 4 out of 5 of your examples there seem a bit questionable to me.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

It would be a start. It would certainly be more effective than waving signs at people who already have your money.

Other suggestions include going part time. Or starting at a community college and earning an associates degree first. Or getting certified in a particular field where you will be able to find work, eschewing the outdated liberal arts education.

They can protest the system and still try to find work within it. These things are not mutually exclusive.

[Oblong]

I agree that the first couple years in college are largely a waste, but I'm not sure having less educated people is good for the country. And it's not like the construction/housing industry is exactly booming, so 4 out of 5 of your examples there seem a bit questionable to me.

You can always do side jobs and it's something you can do anywhere in the country. I've found that a good portion of people who do those thigs for a living as mom and pops suffer due to poor business skills... thinks like customer service, follow up, advertising, etc. A smart person could thrive if htey are willing to get their hands dirty.

I've taken about 7 years worth of undergrad studies because I went to school part time, changed my major, etc. and I really don't feel smarter than anybody else. Half those liberal arts classes are nothing more than cash the check, show up a few times a week, and we'll give you your A or B. Students don't retain anything from it.

[rhino]

I've always felt the most important thing I got out of college was that I learned how to learn.

[Melody]

My husband graduated college at the end of the Carter administration. Jobs were so tight that fast food chains were requiring degrees for their management trainees. No lie. He worked managing a Wendy's for a while, then got on climbing phone poles to install new service for ATT while he applied for internal transfers out of the field. Foot in the door, as they say. Then he used his business office experience at ATT, took a pay cut to go to the employer he's been with for over 25 years because there was more future opportunity. It was good timing. He took a pay cut again, essentially, when he moved from hourly to management because he was losing his overtime.

There have always been very few jobs where you command a large salary right out of college. And sometimes you have to make sacrifices for future benefit. That's how life goes.

I've posted this before, but this is a favorite synopsis of the student loan racket: The Student Loan Racket: Now in One Easy-to-Understand Graphic « Above the Law: A Legal Web Site

It's pretty appalling to me how an 18-20 year old can be allowed to rack up debt the size of a mortgage just on his signature, thereby putting himself into bondage nearly until retirement.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I've always felt the most important thing I got out of college was that I learned how to learn.

I never had to study prior to college. I had to do poorly as a Freshman to realize I actually had to put effort into my studies and manage my time to get something meaningful out of them. This was a very valuable lesson.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I agree that the first couple years in college are largely a waste, but I'm not sure having less educated people is good for the country. And it's not like the construction/housing industry is exactly booming, so 4 out of 5 of your examples there seem a bit questionable to me.

I'm not sure a more educated populace necessarily makes things better. If it creates a situation where large numbers of people are pursuing degrees that have limited to no job marketability and end up under crushing debt paired with being completely disenfranchised with the system (as many of these folks seem to be), then I'd suggest too much education can be a bad thing for a nation.

My parents were the youngsters of their families, so they both raised by parents and around siblings who just got out of the Great Depression. It had an indelible impact on both my parents. They would say things like 'college isn't for everyone' and absolutely believe that. They felt that since college was such a large outlay of cash, only good students should go (maybe top 25% as an example).

I think that sort of thinking is viewed as outdated now, but I wonder if they weren't closer to being right than not.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

I'm not sure a more educated populace necessarily makes things better. If it creates a situation where large numbers of people are pursuing degrees that have limited to no job marketability and end up under crushing debt paired with being completely disenfranchised with the system (as many of these folks seem to be), then I'd suggest too much education can be a bad thing for a nation.

My parents were the youngsters of their families, so they both raised by parents and around siblings who just got out of the Great Depression. It had an indelible impact on both my parents. They would say things like 'college isn't for everyone' and absolutely believe that. They felt that since college was such a large outlay of cash, only good students should go (maybe top 25% as an example).

I think that sort of thinking is viewed as outdated now, but I wonder if they weren't closer to being right than not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one who is saying everyone should go to college because it makes you more 'well-rounded' or some other ********. I'm just thinking the simple thought that it would be better to have more scientists and engineers and things like that. I would probably agree with your 25% number

Ideally an 18 year-old would have the maturity to either know what they want to do or if they don't, work for a couple years and go from there. Doing what I and many of my friends did, because we thought it normal, and just taking core classes the first year or two and otherwise wandering around aimlessly is really a horrible financial decision. In a way, it's an American Dream type thing to go to college, in the same way it's an American Dream to own a home. But sometimes it's a dream, sometimes it's a nightmare.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

You can always do side jobs and it's something you can do anywhere in the country. I've found that a good portion of people who do those thigs for a living as mom and pops suffer due to poor business skills... thinks like customer service, follow up, advertising, etc. A smart person could thrive if htey are willing to get their hands dirty.

I've taken about 7 years worth of undergrad studies because I went to school part time, changed my major, etc. and I really don't feel smarter than anybody else. Half those liberal arts classes are nothing more than cash the check, show up a few times a week, and we'll give you your A or B. Students don't retain anything from it.

I'm probably one of those mom and pops types now actually, but I did go to school with a lot of people where the education really did pay off. Mostly because they were doing something they liked and were good at it, and it wasn't as if everyone could do it. But on the other hand I suppose never in a million years would I think it worth it to get a degree in journalism or business or something like that, it all seems too general, or not technical enough to feel you've really learned anything that will help get a job.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

I never had to study prior to college. I had to do poorly as a Freshman to realize I actually had to put effort into my studies and manage my time to get something meaningful out of them. This was a very valuable lesson.

Heh, it took me until my senior year in college to learn that I could get by half-assing it. I then, of course, promptly failed my first graduate class. By then I had already learned that grades don't matter in graduate school, and the rest of our exams were take-home stuff that only required photo-copies of someone's notes and this thing called 'google.' So I still only attended half of the classes and slept through half of the others and did fine.

[pfife]

LOL @ the folks here on the right belittling these people after they just spent 2+ years slurping people who dress from the 18th century and say really dumb crap

[Auburndale Ray]

[Auburndale Ray]

[Deleterious]

This is an "End The Fed" guy, not one of the 99% people. But figured this was as good of a place to post it as any. Some NSFW language.

[Mr. DNA]

Funny how all this started from an idea in an issue of AdBusters-- a lefty, artsy magazine with a circulation of probably a few thousand.

The Tea Party events had Fox News promoting them non-stop and I don't think their events were much bigger than Occupy Wall St is turning out to be, if at all.

[pfife]

Funny how all this started from an idea in an issue of AdBusters-- a lefty, artsy magazine with a circulation of probably a few thousand.

The Tea Party events had Fox News promoting them non-stop and I don't think their events were much bigger than Occupy Wall St is turning out to be, if at all.

Dude you aren't treading on tea partiers are you???

[tiger337]

I benefited immensely from my college education. I worked really hard at it and it changed my life in good ways. As Rhino said, I learned how to learn and I have used what I learned in my jobs.

I do think there may be too many people going to college full-time though. Unless you really like what you're doing and willing to put work into it, it is not worth it. Going to school to party or to get a "job" without having a clue what you want to do is not a great idea. I think a lot of people would be better off learning a trade as some have suggested. Plumbers and auto mechanics and such are always going to be in demand. And you can still get a college education part-time if you want, especially after you start making some money.

[tiger337]

This is an "End The Fed" guy, not one of the 99% people. But figured this was as good of a place to post it as any. Some NSFW language.

Great speech. I don't necessarily agree with everything he said, but he's a bright guy and a great communicator.

[Auburndale Ray]

[Auburndale Ray]

[Auburndale Ray]

[Auburndale Ray]

[Gehringer_2]

good stuff A-Ray. It's so easy to be glib about economic and political matters when you don't have the inconvenience of meeting any of these people face to face.

[tiger337]

For a brief moment, I thought the KFC guy was Bill Clinton.

[Mr. DNA]

Dude you aren't treading on tea partiers are you???

Yeah, I don't get how the insanely wealthy backers of the Tea Party don't get the George Soros treatment. Maybe because they're good gentiles like the Kochs?

[Mr. DNA]

Also, I dig the morality play at work here in this thread. College educated dollar store employees with prepaid cell phones = the epitome of sloth with an inflated sense of entitlement. Our financial elites who turned our housing market and retirement funds into a Las Vegas casino bender don't get 1/10 of the disdain as the chick who works at Cinnabon and can't pay off her communications degree. Such is the genius of America-- divide and conquer. Turn the country into a Latin America-style oligarchy while the have-a-littles sneer at the have-a-bit-less people. Brilliant work, post-Nixon Republican propaganda machine.

[Mr. DNA]

Speaking of Fox News and protests, the NYPD is macing and beating up Fox News reporters and photographers at the Occupy Wall Street:

Occupy Wall Street Arrests; Fox 5 Crew and Protesters Hit by Mace, Batons

Dirty, college trust fund hippies like Fox News employees just getting what they deserve from Johnny Law, obviously. If they keep going hog wild on the protestors and the media, expect this Occupy Wherever thing to keep growing.

[sloan]

These people with "no job", does that mean a job that would equal a career, making enough money to pay off their $100k student loan debt? Or do they mean, NO JOB, as in, no McDonald's, no CVS, etc. job?? I'm sorry, but this is more evidence of the entitlement generation.. going to school and taking out major debt to pay for it DOES NOT entitle you to getting a high paying job! Get a job wherever you can if you are living off your mom's unemployment or disability. Get some effing PRIDE. YOU ARE NOT ABOVE WORKING AT MCDONALD'S JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN M.A. A job is a job, desperate times call for desperate measures, etc. Maybe you can help you mom pay rent. Maybe you won't lose your iPhone service..

Don't get me wrong, I think handing out student loans in times like these is ridiculous and wrong, but these people are learning the hard way that the world isn't the place their parents told them about.. and I blame some of those parents as well for not being realistic with their children. I know being positive and telling your children they are perfect and can do anything is the "thing", but there are ways you can set your child up for life's disappointments without being TOTALLY negative.

[Gehringer_2]

.....

Don't get me wrong, I think handing out student loans in times like these is ridiculous and wrong, .

What is ridiculous and wrong is that a nation in an increasingly technical and scientific era is making advanced public education more and more expensive instead of moving toward it being it free, while opening the door for an ever increasing amount of private sector educational scamming.

[Oblong]

Were these all finance majors expecting jobs on Wall Street?

I'll take them seriously when they organize and protest on Pennsylvania Ave. when the head of Goldman Sachs or GE makes one of their routine visits with the President.

They should be protesting the system that lets an 18 year old sign away 100K in student debt. That's the scandal.

[shabba4detroit]

They can protest the system and still try to find work within it. These things are not mutually exclusive.

They can also pat their heads and rub their tummies until the educational cartel falls to its knees, but it won't help.