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  1. #1
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    Default The Fed and Mexican Drug Cartels join forces




    Not sure why this isn't getting more press. It's obvious that it was an attempt to push for stricter gun laws and remove the weapons from the hands of law abiding citizens. Only in our country would they rather have assault rifles owned by the murderers in the Mexican Drug Cartels instead of you and me.

    The corruption is rampant from top to bottom of the administration.

    Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico - CBS News

    (CBS News)

    WASHINGTON - Federal agent John Dodson says what he was asked to do was beyond belief.

    He was intentionally letting guns go to Mexico?

    "Yes ma'am," Dodson told CBS News. "The agency was."

    An Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms senior agent assigned to the Phoenix office in 2010, Dodson's job is to stop gun trafficking across the border. Instead, he says he was ordered to sit by and watch it happen.

    Investigators call the tactic letting guns "walk." In this case, walking into the hands of criminals who would use them in Mexico and the United States.

    Sharyl Attkisson's original "Gunrunner" report

    Center for Public Integrity report

    Dodson's bosses say that never happened. Now, he's risking his job to go public.

    "I'm boots on the ground in Phoenix, telling you we've been doing it every day since I've been here," he said. "Here I am. Tell me I didn't do the things that I did. Tell me you didn't order me to do the things I did. Tell me it didn't happen. Now you have a name on it. You have a face to put with it. Here I am. Someone now, tell me it didn't happen."

    Agent Dodson and other sources say the gun walking strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department. The idea was to see where the guns ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico.

    ATF named the case "Fast and Furious."

    Surveillance video obtained by CBS News shows suspected drug cartel suppliers carrying boxes of weapons to their cars at a Phoenix gun shop. The long boxes shown in the video being loaded in were AK-47-type assault rifles.

    So it turns out ATF not only allowed it - they videotaped it.

    Documents show the inevitable result: The guns that ATF let go began showing up at crime scenes in Mexico. And as ATF stood by watching thousands of weapons hit the streets... the Fast and Furious group supervisor noted the escalating Mexican violence.

    One e-mail noted, "958 killed in March 2010 ... most violent month since 2005." The same e-mail notes: "Our subjects purchased 359 firearms during March alone," including "numerous Barrett .50 caliber rifles."

    Dodson feels that ATF was partly to blame for the escalating violence in Mexico and on the border. "I even asked them if they could see the correlation between the two," he said. "The more our guys buy, the more violence we're having down there."

    Senior agents including Dodson told CBS News they confronted their supervisors over and over.

    Their answer, according to Dodson, was, "If you're going to make an omelette, you've got to break some eggs."

    There was so much opposition to the gun walking, that an ATF supervisor issued an e-mail noting a "schism" among the agents. "Whether you care or not people of rank and authority at HQ are paying close attention to this case...we are doing what they envisioned.... If you don't think this is fun you're in the wrong line of work... Maybe the Maricopa County jail is hiring detention officers and you can get $30,000 ... to serve lunch to inmates..."

    "We just knew it wasn't going to end well. There's just no way it could," Dodson said.


    On Dec. 14, 2010, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was gunned down. Dodson got the bad news from a colleague.

    According to Dodson, "They said, 'Did you hear about the border patrol agent?' And I said, 'Yeah.' And they said 'Well it was one of the Fast and Furious guns.' There's not really much you can say after that."

    Two assault rifles ATF had let go nearly a year before were found at Terry's murder.

    Dodson said, "I felt guilty. I mean it's crushing. I don't know how to explain it."

    Sen. Grassley began investigating after his office spoke to Dodson and a dozen other ATF sources -- all telling the same story.

    Read Sen. Grassley's letter to the attorney general

    The response was "practically zilch," Grassley said. "From the standpoint that documents we want - we have not gotten them. I think it's a case of stonewalling."

    Dodson said he hopes that speaking out helps Terry's family. They haven't been told much of anything about his murder - or where the bullet came from.

    "First of all, I'd tell them that I'm sorry. Second of all, I'd tell them I've done everything that I can for them to get the truth," Dodson said. "After this, I don't know what else I can do. But I hope they get it."

    Dodson said they never did take down a drug cartels. However, he said thousands of Fast and Furious weapons are still out there and will be claiming victims on both sides of the border for years to come.

    Late tonight, the ATF said it will convene a panel to look into its national firearms trafficking strategy. But it refused to comment specifically on Sharyl's report.

    Statement from Kenneth E. Melson, Acting Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives:

    "The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) will ask a multi-disciplinary panel of law enforcement professionals to review the bureau's current firearms trafficking strategies employed by field division managers and special agents. This review will enable ATF to maximize its effectiveness when undertaking complex firearms trafficking investigations and prosecutions. It will support the goals of ATF to stem the illegal flow of firearms to Mexico and combat firearms trafficking in the United States."

    Read more: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico - CBS News
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    Kind of reminds me of Season 3 of The Wire and "Hamsterdam"

    won't spoil it though.
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    I've heard quite a bit of discussion about Fast and Furious. The head of the ATF just resigned over this, didn't he?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGTigers View Post
    The corruption is rampant from top to bottom of the administration.
    I'm interested to hear why you chose the word "corruption" as opposed to something like "incompetence".

    When I think corruption, I think they're working collusion w/ the cartels to a common goal. I dont think that's the case here - I think their intentions were to battle the cartels, and this tactic was a terrible tactic in that battle.
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    ^agreed.
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    I've seen references to this on blogs but haven't had time to dig deep into it. The headlines were scary and I was putting on my rational/non partisan hat on thinking "Nah... can't be like this. Has to be another explanation." Comparisons to Iran Contra?
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    I've seen references to this on blogs but haven't had time to dig deep into it. The headlines were scary and I was putting on my rational/non partisan hat on thinking "Nah... can't be like this. Has to be another explanation." Comparisons to Iran Contra?
    similar to the Iran Contra maybe....big difference though is that we knew this would only take days or weeks for the weapons to be used against our own....not years or decades.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    I'm interested to hear why you chose the word "corruption" as opposed to something like "incompetence".
    everyone talks about how intellectually superior our president and his administration is to past administrations.....they are all either corrupt or stupid. You can definitely make the case for incompetence but that would go against everything I've heard about Obama, his administration, his intelligence, and the intelligence of everyone around him. Is everything I've heard thus far wrong?

    Exhibit A:
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    Obama's the most serious President we've had since LBJ. Nixon was a disaster, Ford was anti-social, Carter was a disagreeable ideologue, Reagan was an actor and figurehead. Clinton was a side-show with his sexual escapades, and George W. Bush was a dry drunk corrupt hayseed that made the Nixon Administration look like the Vatican.

    With Obama, we've had zero scandals, zero personal issues, a politician that's almost to a fault too self-aware and calculated in his communications, and someone that drops just about anyone from his administration at the slightest hint of controversy.

    If you take away the fantasyland complaints about Obama (such as the "debt" and the threat of "Obamacare"), there's really nothing to complain about. His demeanor is polished and serious, and his administration has been about as clean as a whistle to this point. No spying, no Iran-Contra, no sex with interns, no betraying undercover CIA agents or lying to the public about the need for war, etc. The only "scandalous" things about Obama are those that have been invented in the right-wing paranoiasphere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGTigers View Post
    everyone talks about how intellectually superior our president and his administration is to past administrations.....they are all either corrupt or stupid. You can definitely make the case for incompetence but that would go against everything I've heard about Obama, his administration, his intelligence, and the intelligence of everyone around him. Is everything I've heard thus far wrong?

    Exhibit A:
    I will rephrase my question/

    can you provide evidence of corruption with respect to Fast and Furious, since you made the statement that they were corrupt "from top to bottom"?
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    "dada's moustache is so awesome" - my 2 and a half year old daughter

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    This makes me absolutely sick.

    What brainiac thought this was a viable policy??
    I really do empathize with the agents who were compelled to follow this policy.

    Disgusting.

    I definitely want to see this investigated, and heads should roll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    I will rephrase my question/

    can you provide evidence of corruption with respect to Fast and Furious, since you made the statement that they were corrupt "from top to bottom"?
    Power Line - Fast and Furious Backpedaling at the Department of Justice

    There might be a fine line between "innocent incompetence" and "corruption". "Incompetence" at this level always borderlines on criminal in my opinion. Any time that a government agency sets up a program meant to put weapons into the hands of known criminals while they are simultaneously speaking out for the need of more gun control laws due to those same criminals having weapons....I think I'll error on the side of "corruption".

    Do you really think that the DOJ didn't sanction this program at some level? How far up does it go? The Department of Homeland Security? The office of the President? Much like the Iran Contra, I have a very hard time believing a program of this magnitude is not known about from the very top office.....especially in a time that safety at our border is such a huge threat and political hot point in our country.

    We haven't written much about the Operation Fast and Furious scandal, which reportedly is about to lead to the resignation of the Acting Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The best way to get a handle on the controversy is by reading the Joint Staff Report that was prepared for Congressman Issa's Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and Senator Grassley of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and was released last Tuesday. The report is based on testimony taken from ATF agents and, to a lesser extent, on documents produced to Issa's committee by ATF.

    The report relates that in the fall of 2009, the Department of Justice "developed a risky new strategy to combat gun trafficking along the Southwest Border," which was implemented by ATF, a part of the Justice Department. The new strategy was called "Operation Fast and Furious."

    The operation's goal was to establish a nexus between straw purchasers of assault-style weapons in the United States and Mexican drug-trafficking organizations (DTOs) operating on both sides of the United States-Mexico border.

    "Straw purchasers" are people who buy guns from gun shops for the purpose of reselling them to criminal organizations. At the time when Fast and Furious began, a number of straw purchasers were known or suspected in the Southwest. The usual course, prior to that operation, had been to surveil the suspected straw purchasers as they bought weapons and to keep them under surveillance until they tried to sell or otherwise dispose of the weapons. At that point, an arrest would be made and the weapons recovered. Or, in the alternative, they could arrest the straw purchaser for "lying and buying," making false representations in connection with his gun purchases, and try to "flip" the straw purchaser to lead them to other drug gang members. According to the agents who testified before Issa's committee, "ATF's long-standing policy has been not to knowingly allow guns to 'walk' into the hands of criminals." It was this policy that was changed by the Fast and Furious program.

    Under DOJ's new strategy, gun shop owners would be given the names of suspected straw purchasers and would report to ATF the serial numbers of guns that they sold to those purchasers. However, the purchasers themselves were not kept under surveillance and no effort was made to stop them from transferring the guns to Mexican drug gangs. On the contrary, such transfers were the hoped-for result, on the theory that identifying the guns when they later turned up at crime scenes in Mexico or on the U.S. side of the border would "create a 'nexus' between the drug cartels and the straw purchasers." Under this theory, approximately 2,000 AK-47s and other weapons were allowed to pass from known straw purchasers into the hands of the drug cartels.

    It is difficult to understand how DOJ thought this could be a good idea. Almost the only way in which the illegal firearms were recovered in Mexico was when they were left at crime scenes. ATF would check serial numbers, and sometimes was able to verify that a weapon that had been bought by a known straw purchaser had, indeed, wound up in the hands of a Mexican drug gang. But so what? The authorities already knew that was taking place, and identifying the serial number after the fact would do little or nothing to help identify or catch higher-ups in the drug cartel. Intuitively, the traditional approach described above seems like a much more effective way to roll up a drug gang, which was the stated purpose of Fast and Furious.

    Many ATF agents were appalled by, and rebelled against, Fast and Furious. They predicted that guns the agency had purposely allowed to get into the hands of a drug cartel would inevitably be used to commit crimes of violence, potentially against law enforcement officers. But their complaints were suppressed by higher-ups in ATF and DOJ.

    The weapons that were permitted to be smuggled into Mexico under Fast and Furious contributed to the drug violence there. According to ATF agents who testified, that made ATF officials "giddy." One agent recounted a conversation with an ATF higher-up in which he asked, "are you prepared to go to a border agent's funeral over this or a Cochise County deputy's over this, because that's going to happen." Her response, in a chilling echo of Lenin, was that "if you are going to make an omelette, you need to scramble some eggs."

    The inevitable occurred on December 14, 2010, when Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered by a group of illegal aliens near Rio Rico, Arizona. Two AK-47-type weapons found at the scene had serial numbers that showed they were bought by a straw purchaser named Jaime Avila, whose identity as such had been known to ATF since November 2009.

    The evidence suggests that the Department of Justice immediately went into cover-up mode. In January 2011, William Newell, Special Agent in Charge of the ATF's Phoenix Field Division, held a press conference in which he announced the indictment of 20 individuals. This was presented as though it represented the roll-up of a drug gang, but in fact, most of the indictments were for the relatively minor offense of "lying and buying," and nearly all of those indicted were straw purchasers whose identities were known to ATF long before Fast and Furious began.

    Since then, DOJ has attempted to deflect inquiry by quibbling over whether Fast and Furious involved "gun walking" or not--it did, under any but the narrowest definition, but the terminology is immaterial--and by stonewalling the House committee's requests for documents relating to the program.

    The joint staff report whose findings are summarized in this post does not accuse the Department of Justice of bad faith. It assumes that Fast and Furious was a misguided attempt at a new anti-cartel strategy, which had the unintended but foreseeable effect of contributing to the spiraling violence along the Mexican border.

    Others are not so sure. At Pajamas Media, Bob Owens speculates that the Obama administration used Fast and Furious to advance a gun control agenda:

    The most damning revelations coming out of the hearings on Operation Fast and Furious held by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform are the unmistakable indications that the program was never designed to succeed as a law enforcement operation at all. ...

    ATF agents testifying in front of the House Oversight Committee could not explain how the operation was supposed to succeed when their surveillance efforts stopped at the border and interdiction was never an option.

    ATF Agent John Dodson, testifying in front of the committee, said that in his entire law enforcement career, he had "never been involved in or even heard of an operation in which law enforcement officers let guns walk." He continued: "I cannot begin to think of how the risk of letting guns fall into the hands of known criminals could possibly advance any legitimate law enforcement interest."

    The obvious answer is that Gunwalker's objective was never intended to be a "legitimate law enforcement interest." Instead, it appears that ATF Acting Director Ken Melson and Department of Justice senior executives specifically created an operation that was designed from the outset to arm Mexican narco-terrorists and increase violence substantially along both sides of the Southwest border. ...

    At the same time in 2009 that federal law enforcement agencies (the ATF, the DOJ, and presumably Janet Napolitano's Department of Homeland Security) were creating the operation that led to the executive branch being the largest gun smuggler in the Southwest [Ed.: This characterization is overblown; the Obama administration did not smuggle guns, but did intentionally permit and encourage the smuggling of weapons that easily could have been confiscated.], the president's team was crafting the rhetoric to sell the crisis they were creating.

    On television, in various news outlets, and even in a joint appearance with Mexican President Felipe Calderon, Obama pushed the 90 percent lie, implying that 90% of the guns recovered in Mexican cartel violence came from U.S. gun shops.

    At the same time they were damning gun dealers in public, the administration was secretly forcing them to provide weapons to the cartels, by the armful and without oversight. More than one gun industry insider suggests that the administration extorted cooperation and silence from these gun shops.


    This is an explosive accusation, for which there is no evidence beyond the circumstantial. But Eric Holder's Department of Justice needs to stop stonewalling Issa's committee and start providing clear--among other things, unredacted--answers as to who devised Fast and Furious, and why. In the absence of such cooperation, speculation will inevitably run rampant.
    Last edited by DGTigers; 06-22-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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    Thanks DG, I will read that when I get an opportunity.
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    me, too.
    Thanks for bringing the topic to light here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    Thanks DG, I will read that when I get an opportunity.
    If you get more than just a few minutes I suggest reading the Joint Staff Report that was prepared for Congressman Issa's Committee on Oversight and Government Reform and Senator Grassley of the Senate Judiciary Committee. The PDF of it is linked to from that blog.
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    OK, I read that article, and I definitely think there's reason to see strong incompetence/negligence, but not "corruption". You might not see any difference, which is your prerogative, but there is in fact a huge difference - legally speaking. Corruption suggests that the government was in collusion w/ the cartels, and even the articles you posted outright state this was at minimum a poorly designed plan to try to battle the cartels. Incompetence? Yup. Negligence? Yup. Corruption? I don't think so.

    Everything suggests that the design and implementation of this program goes high into the administration, and those who are responsible should be held accountable.

    I'm wondering something: Everything I've heard/read is that guns from F&F program were "found" at the scene where the scene of the agent's murder. It seems to me quite conspicuous that it is worded this way - instead of stating that one of the guns was the murder weapon. Is this fishy to anyone else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    Everything suggests that the design and implementation of this program goes high into the administration, and those who are responsible should be held accountable.

    I'm wondering something: Everything I've heard/read is that guns from F&F program were "found" at the scene where the scene of the agent's murder. It seems to me quite conspicuous that it is worded this way - instead of stating that one of the guns was the murder weapon. Is this fishy to anyone else?
    Because they weren't the murder weapon. These guns were at the scene and in the hands of the murderers but I have read that they were not the actual weapons that fired the bullet in the murder of the agent. Doesn't make a ton of difference either way though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGTigers View Post
    Because they weren't the murder weapon. These guns were at the scene and in the hands of the murderers but I have read that they were not the actual weapons that fired the bullet in the murder of the agent. Doesn't make a ton of difference either way though.
    In my opinion it does, because it wasn't a gun from the program that killed the agent.
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    I am of the strongest opinion that the existing Mexican DTOs in the U.S should be stung and stung hard by the most elite military forces at our disposal under the same ROI that applies to warfare. If we're going to break some eggs, let's crack some heads as well.
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    Pajamas Media ‘Gunwalker’ Goes Pravda: White House Unleashes MSM

    I'm not really taking a stand on this because I can't look into it with much depth, just throwing out something I got from a blog.

    This could be huge or it could be like the Clintons killed Vince Foster thing.
    .

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    This has been a hot topic since the first hints of allowing american arms to fall into Mexican hands by ATF agents. Unfortunately most of the "factual" reporting is on sites which cater to gun owners. I would have loved to post some of the articles from the NRA or the 2nd Amendment Foundation. But I try and only supply what I feel are facts and not op ed pieces or my personal opinion. It is amazing the liberties our authorities take about weapons. Even Mayor Bloomberg has broken federal arms trafficking laws in his attempt to shut down gun shows and dealers.
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    This has been a hot topic since the first hints of allowing american arms to fall into Mexican hands by ATF agents. Unfortunately most of the "factual" reporting is on sites which cater to gun owners. I would have loved to post some of the articles from the NRA or the 2nd Amendment Foundation. But I try and only supply what I feel are facts and not op ed pieces or my personal opinion. It is amazing the liberties our authorities take about weapons. Even Mayor Bloomberg has broken federal arms trafficking laws in his attempt to shut down gun shows and dealers.
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    Pajamas Media Gunwalker: The ATF?s Kenneth Melson Blows the Whistle on the Justice Department

    In a blockbuster development in the Operation Fast & Furious gun-running scandal, Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson secretly testified before House and Senate investigators on July 4 with his own personal lawyer present, former United States Attorney Richard Cullen, without the knowledge of the ATF or the Department of Justice.

    This morning, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa and Senate Judiciary Committee Ranking Member Charles Grassley released a copy of a letter they sent to Attorney General Eric Holder on July 5 about Melson’s testimony. Melson’s revelations raise even more serious issues not only about the operation itself, but about apparent attempts by the Justice Department to mislead Congress on the details of the operation.
    There's a link to Grassley's actual letter.

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    Default who needs criminals when you have an administration like this protecting us!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melody View Post
    Scary that so many of the people speaking out against law abiding citizens owning firearms are the same ones behind this act of terror against both Mexico and the United States. Everyone should face trial for such deplorable acts.
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    Sigh. The more that comes out about this, the angrier I get.

    43 weapons in Phoenix traffic stop linked to ATF strategy

    PHOENIX - The ABC15 Investigators have linked an additional 43 weapons recovered during a Phoenix traffic stop to the controversial Fast and Furious ATF case.

    According to court paperwork, Phoenix Drug Enforcement Administration agents discovered the guns in mid-April. They pulled over a vehicle near 83rd Avenue and Interstate 10, near the Phoenix and Tolleson border.

    Documents filed in federal court reveal five suspects named in the case are accused of conspiring to possess and distribute “500 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of methamphetamine…”

    Four of the suspects are listed as undocumented immigrants. The fifth suspect had been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa, according to court documents.

    Agents recovered at least 59 weapons during the bust. The ABC15 Investigators found 43 are connected to the Fast and Furious case with certainty.

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    This is exactly why I love my country and fear my government.
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    I know it says this "Fast and Furious" program emanated out of the Justice Department but did Eric Holder actually have any first-hand knowledge of this programs implementation? I'm not asking that just to throw the administration under the bus, I'd seriously like to know because I haven't seen anything definitive yet.
    Last edited by Mr.TaterSalad; 07-09-2011 at 09:48 AM.
    Who knew after all these years Joe Dumars was really playing a dual role as both himself and his alter-ego Ken Holland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.TaterSalad View Post
    I know it says this "Fast and Furious" program emanated out of the Justice Department but did Eric Holder actually have any first-hand knowledge of this programs implementation? I'm not asking that just to throw the administration under the bus, I'd seriously like to know because I haven't seen anything definitive yet.
    I'm as or more interested in Holder's response to this letter and to the transcribed testimony from Melson. Grassley is on the record stating under oath that the president and attorney general did not authorize it, which says nothing about whether or not they had prior or on-going first-hand knowledge.
    The team, the team, the team!

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    From March 24, 2009:

    Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly. Click here to see how YouTube videos should be embedded. There could also be a technical issue that's not your fault. Click here to view the video on YouTube's site. If this link doesn't work, you did something wrong.

    This is one of the most corrupt actions by a President and his administration in the history of the country. Far worse than Watergate and should lead to the same fate in addition to charges being filed against Obama, Holder, and everyone else involved.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DGTigers View Post
    This is one of the most corrupt actions by a President and his administration in the history of the country. Far worse than Watergate and should lead to the same fate in addition to charges being filed against Obama, Holder, and everyone else involved.
    Well, I read something about this recently on a link from Glenn Reynolds.
    Confederate Yankee: It's a Trap!

    Please Keep in mind that Gunrunner is a long-term cartel weapons interdiction program that kicked off during the previous administration. there is no indication that Gunrunner has ever been anything but above-board. The program/project framework has long been used in business and government, with the program being the general vision, with individual projects/operations as steps towards realizing that vision.
    So this isn't a smoking gun re Obama's knowledge of the specific projects, Gunwalker and Fast & Furious. (Go to the link. It explains further.)

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    ATF promotes supervisors from border gun operation - latimes.com

    Reporting from Washington— The ATF has promoted three key supervisors of a controversial sting operation that allowed firearms to be illegally trafficked across the U.S. border into Mexico.

    All three have been heavily criticized for pushing the program forward even as it became apparent that it was out of control. At least 2,000 guns were lost and many turned up at crime scenes in Mexico and two at the killing of a U.S. Border Patrol agent in Arizona.

    The three supervisors have been given new management positions at the agency's headquarters in Washington. They are William G. McMahon, who was the ATF's deputy director of operations in the West, where the illegal trafficking program was focused, and William D. Newell and David Voth, both field supervisors who oversaw the program out of the agency's Phoenix office.
    What the heck?!

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    The adults are in charge
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    We go to church with the guy who made the documentary called Border. If I recall correctly, he invited a lot of presidential candidates to the premier to facilitate discussion on how to resolve the border problems. I never asked him what the outcome was, but I know he outlined a four step plan that he thinks will help.

    BORDER Movie

    The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. - George Washington August 26, 1776.

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    ATF investigation expands to White House staffers - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

    Another stone uncovered to reveal this thing goes way way up in the administration.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    I don't care about this from a political perspective. In fact i don't think it's as much a political issue as some want it to be. I am pretty intrigued by the study of criminology and aspects of things like drug lords, the mafia etc. And I will say that this was an idea that did not work in the least. It turned out to be stupid. BUT this is a very, very complex thing. Infiltrating and overthrowing these huge criminal orginizations isn't like breaking up 4 guys importing coke and selling it on the streets

    What these guys have are akin to small nations with armies and likely a large number of corrupt police willing to kill and torture and maim people. It takes cunning and stealth and the taking of chances. I do not think this was corruption. I think it was desperation. And I also think it's ridiculous that someone didn't think it through better.

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