Investing

**Greenwit** · 01-08-2013, 09:53 AM

Is there much of a correlation between silver and the ETF (SLV)? Seems like a good time to buy. Volume sure has dipped.

**screwball** · 01-08-2013, 10:40 AM

Read the prospectus, do a google and see what others say, compare the two on the same chart. They correlate, but not exactly. SLV is a derivative of the underlying. See what both did in 2012 (yearly percentage gain). There is a difference, it's up to you if you want to trade it or not. Do your DD.

**Greenwit** · 01-08-2013, 11:25 AM

I traded Silver Wheaton at one time. Very volatile. And a couple of big boys playing iirc that distorted the price.

**Deleterious** · 01-08-2013, 11:55 AM

Rescued by a Bailout, A.I.G. May Sue Its Savior - NYTimes.com

The board of A.I.G. will meet on Wednesday to consider joining a $25 billion shareholder lawsuit against the government, court records show. The lawsuit does not argue that government help was not needed. It contends that the onerous nature of the rescue — the taking of what became a 92 percent stake in the company, the deal’s high interest rates and the funneling of billions to the insurer’s Wall Street clients — deprived shareholders of tens of billions of dollars and violated the Fifth Amendment, which prohibits the taking of private property for “public use, without just compensation.”

**screwball** · 01-08-2013, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Greenwit

I traded Silver Wheaton at one time. Very volatile. And a couple of big boys playing iirc that distorted the price.

I've traded SLV at times. It's ok as exposure to silver, but it is a derivative of the underlying so you won't get the same return, and being a piece of paper vs. the actual metal, if everything blows up your screwed.

I haven't looked at it lately, but I would go over the prospectus again just to make sure. I don't recall SLV having the decay like you see with other ETFs, of course it's not leveraged either, which is where you see the most decay.

My personal belief is they all have decay built into them, which is one way the fund makes their money - rather they tell you or not.

I don't know of any reason to be afraid of that fund, unless somethings changed of course. Just know what your getting into before getting in.

**screwball** · 01-08-2013, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Rescued by a Bailout, A.I.G. May Sue Its Savior - NYTimes.com

I don't know what to think about this. In a way, I kind of see their point, but what stones to do this huh?

On the other hand, somewhere I read (I think it was this) where they want thousands of pages of documents. Think what discovery might bring to light. Not that it will ever see light of day in the papers, but if some of the backdoor shenanigans came out - that would be a good thing.

I need more stuff to get mad about, there just isn't enough it seems.

At the end of they day the 1200 dollar an hour law firms will be happy happy.

**Deleterious** · 01-08-2013, 12:17 PM

I'm all for the Constitution. But I think once you take that first penny, you become their ***** and give up a lot of your rights.

**sinister porpoise** · 01-08-2013, 12:18 PM

That lawsuit appears ludicrous at first glance. AIG voluntarily agreed to those government conditions. The shareholders are better off for having taking that route than any other imagined alternative.

**screwball** · 01-08-2013, 01:42 PM

I finally read the article from the Times. Maurice "Hank" Greenberg - that's all you need to know (don't know why I didn't connect the dots). A creep of creeps, but the righties might like him since he helped Spitzer get "spitzered." Ha!

More on Hanky panky if anyone cares

That little prick should be in jail.

**screwball** · 01-08-2013, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

That lawsuit appears ludicrous at first glance. AIG voluntarily agreed to those government conditions. The shareholders are better off for having taking that route than any other imagined alternative.

Any shareholder with two brain cells to rub together should have been long gone before this happened. I fell no sorrow for their ignorance. That's why anyone with "exposure" to the markets should keep a very close eye on their investments and what they are doing. After all, that is YOUR money, therefore YOUR job.

I can attest to this first hand. I wasted 10 years of savings because I was not paying attention and stupid. I got zero for it, and I deserve it.

Not directed at you SP, just a general statement and a convenient place to put it.

**Deleterious** · 01-08-2013, 03:24 PM

IRS will accept tax returns starting Jan. 30 - Jan. 8, 2013

The Internal Revenue Service will start processing tax returns for the vast majority of filers on Jan. 30. The agency had planned to open the tax season on Jan. 22, but had to push back the date because Congress took until New Year's Day to pass needed tax provisions.

The IRS then had to reprogram its computers and forms to reflect the late changes. The dithering on Capitol Hill forced the agency to print tax forms last month with lines marked as "reserved" as placeholders for the pending legislation.

The IRS will accept returns of more than 120 million filers starting Jan. 30. But certain taxpayers, including those claiming residential energy credits, depreciation of property or general business credits will have to wait until late February or March to send in their returns since their forms require more extensive programming. Most filers in this group have more complex tax returns and typically file closer to April 15 or obtain an extension, the IRS said.

Had Congress not acted on the alternative minimum tax, up to 100 million taxpayers would not have been able to file their returns -- or collect refunds, if owed -- until late March, Steven Miller, the agency's acting commissioner, said last month. (The AMT itself would hit nearly 30 million filers with higher tax bills, and delay returns for other filers as the IRS adjusted its systems.)

More at the link

**screwball** · 01-08-2013, 03:28 PM

Final 2012 earnings season starts tonight after the bell with AA on deck.

**Deleterious** · 01-08-2013, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by screwball

Final 2012 earnings season starts tonight after the bell with AA on deck.

So far so good. Lets just stop now.

Alcoa Hits Its Earnings Target, Raises Its Outlook

**Deleterious** · 01-08-2013, 07:24 PM

Eurozone Unemployment At Record High After EU Leaders Say Worst is Over | Bastiat Institute

Does this mean things aren't fixed? So confused.

**Greenwit** · 01-08-2013, 08:56 PM

Yes record unemployment means more public assistance and dependency which is a big win for the socialists. More taking more giving more printing....isn't out marvelous! The Nobel prize winners got it figured out don't bother second guessing.

This woman obviously doesn't know what she's talking about.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/31/news...ex.html?iid=EL

**Truth** · 01-08-2013, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Greenwit

Yes record unemployment means more public assistance and dependency which is a big win for the socialists. More taking more giving more printing....isn't out marvelous! The Nobel prize winners got it figured out don't bother second guessing.

This woman obviously doesn't know what she's talking about.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/31/news...ex.html?iid=EL

Yep, the sky is green and the grass is blue.

**Deleterious** · 01-09-2013, 09:48 AM

https://twitter.com/LaurenLyster/sta...20070091431936

If AIG shareholders/Greenberg have case that loan terms were too bad, does that mean bailed out countries have a case against IMF lenders?!

Should also be said that she makes her debut on the Daily Ticker today.

**Deleterious** · 01-09-2013, 10:26 AM

Lauren Lyster's debut on The Daily Ticker.

AIG Suing Uncle Sam? So Crazy It Just

**Deleterious** · 01-09-2013, 10:33 AM

Obama To Appoint Jack Lew As Treasury Secretary Tomorrow, Bloomberg Reports | Zero Hedge

**Deleterious** · 01-09-2013, 11:26 AM

Not sure its a valid reason to deny him the job. But yeah, it is a pretty terrible signature.

Jack Lew’s Terrible Signature May Grace Dollar Bills Now

**ballmich** · 01-09-2013, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

I'm all for the Constitution. But I think once you take that first penny, you become their ***** and give up a lot of your rights.

I'm not keeping up with the story, because I just don't care about it. But did AIG take the government's money, or were they told to take the government's money? There's a distinction there. Another example is how the government/Fed pushed TARP down on banks that didn't want the funds (and didn't need them), and forced it upon them. And once those banks took the TARP, the government was able to clamp down on employee compensation, even though they didn't want or need TARP.

Besides, AIG was "saved" because they wanted to firewall the rest of the financial system. So I'm sure that there is a case to be made that the government/Fed forced AIG to do things they otherwise wouldn't have, in order to "save us all".

**Deleterious** · 01-09-2013, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by ballmich

I'm not keeping up with the story, because I just don't care about it. But did AIG take the government's money, or were they told to take the government's money? There's a distinction there. Another example is how the government/Fed pushed TARP down on banks that didn't want the funds (and didn't need them), and forced it upon them. And once those banks took the TARP, the government was able to clamp down on employee compensation, even though they didn't want or need TARP.

Besides, AIG was "saved" because they wanted to firewall the rest of the financial system. So I'm sure that there is a case to be made that the government/Fed forced AIG to do things they otherwise wouldn't have, in order to "save us all".

I don't understand how anyone can be forced to take the money. I have no doubt the government did things to turn up the heat on them to encourage it. But at the end of the day they decided to accept it.

**screwball** · 01-09-2013, 12:23 PM

The AIG thing is a little different. Hank Greenberg's (AIG ex-CEO) new company owns a bunch of stock in AIG (largest shareholder I believe). He and his new company have already sued .gov. He wants AIG to go along with him in suing .gov.

As far as being forced to take TARP money, it all depends on who you talk to. The banksters (some) claimed they didn't need it, others claim they did, along with Paulson, Geithner, Bair, et al.

At the end of the day they all needed to take it or the short sellers would have killed the ones that did. By all of them taking it, the short sellers didn't know who is solvent and who isn't. At the time of the Lehman blowup Fuld was screaming the short sellers were the only reason his company was going belly up (they later put a no shorting the banks rule to protect the guilty).

Their still insolvent but they have the .gov put in TBTF.

And besides, who wouldn't have wanted in on the gravy train they were offering. The "headline" name was TARP - the behind the scenes name was "break the glass" with the details done by Neel Kashkari (from the treasury at the time - now with PIMCO) which meant - (breaking the glass was like a fire alarm thing) pulling all stops to get the banks recapitalized - in other words, piles and piles of money.

**Greenwit** · 01-09-2013, 12:42 PM

Make money without alot of risk....according to Barrons. I don't own any of these but have seen VIG referenced a number of times.....

Income Winners - Barrons.com

Even as the Federal Reserve holds short-term interest rates near zero for the fourth year in a row, there are plenty of places to find decent income in the U.S. stock and bond markets. You just have to know where to look.

We found eight groups with average payouts ranging as high as 6% without the risk that often comes with reaching for yield. They include municipal bonds, with yields between 1% and 3%; utilities and real-estate investment trusts, at 4%; convertible securities, at 3%; high-dividend stocks, at 3% to 4%; master limited partnerships and junk bonds, at 6%, and preferred shares, at 5% to 6%. There are higher-yielding securities in all of these categories, including mortgage REITs and junk bonds that carry 10%-plus rates, but the rewards here may not be worth the risk.

What looks best for 2013? Given the risks in bonds at historically low-yield levels, it may be best to stick with blue-chip stocks, electric utilities, MLPs, and to a lesser extent, REITs.

**rhino** · 01-09-2013, 04:37 PM

Margin Increase on Low Cap Securities

Please be advised that IB has increased the initial margin rates to 100% on low capitalization stocks (currently defined as companies with less than $250 million in market capitalization). The maintenance margin increases will occur in stages starting with an increase to 50% beginning after each region's market close on Friday, January 11, 2013 and will be implemented as
follows:

Friday January 11, 2013: Maintenance Margin - 50% Wednesday January 16,2013:
Maintenance Margin - 75% Monday January 21, 2013: Maintenance Margin - 100%

The list of stocks which are subject to this margin increase can be found on the following page:

From Interactive Brokers

**Deleterious** · 01-09-2013, 04:45 PM

How Big is Wall Street's Housing Bet? Pretty Big

**Ingefanclub** · 01-09-2013, 04:55 PM

UNG is now at $17.57. This is a play on natural gas.
It was over $500 around 5 years ago.
I am really thinking about possibly playing around with buying some of this just for grins.

**Deleterious** · 01-09-2013, 04:57 PM

Gold and Silver Legal Tender Law Introduced in Indiana – Tenth Amendment Center Blog

Specifies that gold and silver coins issued by the United States government are legal tender in Indiana. Provides that a person may not compel another person to tender or accept gold or silver coins that are issued by the United States government, except as agreed upon by contract. Provides that the sale or other exchange of gold or silver coins issued by the United States government is exempt from state gross retail tax and use tax. Specifies that capital gains incurred on a sale or exchange of gold or silver coins issued by the United States government are not included in adjusted gross income for purposes of the state adjusted gross income tax.

**Greenwit** · 01-10-2013, 12:26 PM

Farage tweet....In the last two days we have had a senior American official and a senior German official both tell us what would be in their best interests not ours.

(This in regards to the administration's public sanctification of the EU).

Reading some of the comments from his followers we are now lumped together with Germany by those in the UKIP. Not good.

**Deleterious** · 01-10-2013, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Greenwit

Farage tweet....In the last two days we have had a senior American official and a senior German official both tell us what would be in their best interests not ours.

(This in regards to the administration's public sanctification of the EU).

Reading some of the comments from his followers we are now lumped together with Germany by those in the UKIP. Not good.

I follow him and he has been pretty upset. As he should be.

**ballmich** · 01-10-2013, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ingefanclub

UNG is now at $17.57. This is a play on natural gas.
It was over $500 around 5 years ago.
I am really thinking about possibly playing around with buying some of this just for grins.

Becareful with the ETF's. They are trading (or swing trading) tools, not long term buy and holds. The decay on these instruments kills buy and hold investors.

**Deleterious** · 01-10-2013, 01:45 PM

https://twitter.com/MajorCBS/status/289442347605970944

Obama: "When the history books are written, Tim Geithner is going to go down as one of our finest secretaries of the Treasury."

**ballmich** · 01-10-2013, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

https://twitter.com/MajorCBS/status/289442347605970944

Maybe under his plaque in the Secretary of the Treasury HOF, they can put this:

Peter Barnes “Is there a risk that the United States could lose its AAA credit rating? Yes or no?”

Geithner’s response: “No risk of that.”

“No risk?” Barnes asked.

“No risk,” Geithner said.

**screwball** · 01-10-2013, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

https://twitter.com/MajorCBS/status/289442347605970944

I couldn't agree more!

Signed
Wall Street criminal banksters

**Deleterious** · 01-10-2013, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by ballmich

Maybe under his plaque in the Secretary of the Treasury HOF, they can put this:

Perfect.

**screwball** · 01-10-2013, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

https://twitter.com/MajorCBS/status/289442347605970944

This will take two, now that I have washed my mouth, changed clothes, took a shower, and a crap.

I wish this was a marble stone embedded somewhere I could tinkle all over it. And while I'm at it....

Screw you Timmy you criminal piece of poo, I hope you get the screaming poops until your head comes out your anus. Then you should be thrown inside a dingy old rat infested garbage truck and dumped in the East river. Then a maggot infested rabid carp eats your remains.

**Deleterious** · 01-10-2013, 02:09 PM

Lew was sort of a surprising pick, wasn't he?

**screwball** · 01-10-2013, 02:25 PM

I read the name a while back, along with the others. I don't know much about him, but who knows. I did read somewhere the pigmen aren't too happy about it. They are afraid he isn't friendly enough to Wall Street. Really?

Well his boss is. Actually the biggest bank sucker in the history of the world. But I would expect the pigmen to say that. They would say that or something like that, if Jamie Dimon was named.

I guess we'll see. At least that pick saved me a few blood pressure pills.

**Greenwit** · 01-10-2013, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by screwball

Screw you Timmy you criminal piece of poo, I hope you get the screaming poops until your head comes out your anus. Then you should be thrown inside a dingy old rat infested garbage truck and dumped in the East river. Then a maggot infested rabid carp eats your remains.

<snickering much too loudly> :-p

**screwball** · 01-10-2013, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Greenwit

<snickering much too loudly> :-p

I'm sure you probably know by now Green, I'm not a fan of Timmy. :-)

It probably won't take long to not like the new guy either.

In other news, after another 10 point swing intraday in the S&P to 1470ish level (thanks algos), we are only half dozen (or less) to the post crash intraday high (1474).