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  1. #81
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    so what is the FDA's role here?
    What, me worry?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by shabba4detroit View Post
    No.
    then how do you make sure they can make an informed decision?
    What, me worry?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by billms View Post
    so what is the FDA's role here?
    They approved the drug. And the warnings. And the information published with the product. Now, let people with their doctors make informed decisions about its use. Don't put on a dog and pony show because a tiny amount of people suffered from a known side effect.
    ‎"For lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land."

    William Earnest Harwell (1918-2010), from the Song of Solomon.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by billms View Post
    then how do you make sure they can make an informed decision?
    That's what the limited government oversight of the FDA is and has been for about a century. But of course, you knew that.
    ‎"For lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land."

    William Earnest Harwell (1918-2010), from the Song of Solomon.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4hzglory View Post
    The 2 people I know who have taken Actos have had terrible side effects. My Father in law put on 30lbs of fluid in a month and previously undiagnosed liver problems magnified to such an extent that he still (9 months later) gains 20 + lbs every month that needs to be drained off, even though he only took the Actos for about 3 weeks.

    The other person I know who took it gained 25-30 lbs in a month also, but has had no other side effects since stopping the drug.
    On second thought...

    Actually I'd heard of some of these side effects before, which is why a few people I know decided to try the strict diet/exercise regimen approach. This approach works, but is very very hard to stick with, unfortunately.

    In type II diabetes, it's not uncommon for people to gain a fair amount of weight after starting insulin, but I'm assuming your FIL has type II diabetes based on what I know about Actos. Did the dr. ask him about or test for liver disease before prescribing the drug? I'm just curious.

    Diabetes is a nasty disease, it really is. I never realized how nasty it was until I worked in a diabetes clinic. It was hoped that these pills could help make it easier to control the disease, but it appears that as always when one part of the body is fixed, another can be put out of whack when medicine is involved.
    This spot, and a place in my heart, is reserved for TC.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by shabba4detroit View Post
    They approved the drug. And the warnings. And the information published with the product. Now, let people with their doctors make informed decisions about its use. Don't put on a dog and pony show because a tiny amount of people suffered from a known side effect.
    so - its not the nanny state to control who can get the drug, how they get it, and the information they get about it

    but it is the nanny state to have a hearing to collect more information

    that makes no sense - your argument is invalid
    What, me worry?

  7. #87
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    Of course adding to this is that doctors are often given free samples of drugs by representatives, often in the form of a luncheon. Depending on how this is done, and what 'incentives' exist to push certain products over others (this is assuming that there's a drug that might be better), this could compromise the advice doctors might give.

    Though tbh I'm not in favor of banning the above practice...I've seen at least a couple of cases where those free samples meant somebody who couldn't afford a medication was able to get some...
    This spot, and a place in my heart, is reserved for TC.

  8. #88
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    Free samples are a good idea - the lunches, dinners, and golf outings overseas are a bad idea and should be stopped. We should also go back to not allowing advertising of drugs.

    Rely on your doctor and her federally sanctioned prescription pad - as shabba so wisely suggested - because as an elitist he thinks we are all too dumb to make up our mind for ourselves.
    What, me worry?

  9. #89
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    The samples have come in handy for us on more than one occasion. For example, when trying something new that we weren't certain would help or for which there was concern about side effects. She didn't have to purchase a prescription, then throw most of it away and buy a different one. Co-pays on certain newer drugs are $50 on her plan.

    Frankly, I don't mind the ads either. What's wrong with letting people know that there 's a new drug which might address an issue for which they might not be aware of new treatments and encouraging them to go to their doctor and ask whether it is appropriate to them?

  10. #90
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    The ads target people who are not capable of making informed decisions and create a misguided demand that the doctors have to respond to. I know quite a few doctors who are pissed off because they have patients come in insistent on getting one thing or another because the TV said - when its the wrong thing to get. And I know many doctors who shrug their shoulders - in their 5 minutes - and let the patient get what they want. After all with most HMO's your patient's satisfaction score - not their well being - is a component of your bonus. This is *exactly* the same phenomenon that results in docs perscribing antibiotics for what they are convinced is a virus - because it gets the patient out the door and happy.

    If there is a good effective treatment your doctor will already know about it.
    What, me worry?

  11. #91
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    Bill suggests the FDA is doing the right thing. Shabba says bill is wrong. Bill says the FDA controls prescriptions. Shabba ****s it up by saying bill is wrong and the states control prescriptions. Bill says Shabba sees no role for the FDA. Shabba says bill is wrong the FDA should do exactly what they have been doing. Which is exactly what bill said in the beginning that Shabba said was wrong.

    OK - got it finally - i fell for it hook line and sinker. You are trolling. I could say Shabba is right and you would say bill is wrong. You've been playing BS the whole time.

    I only regret taking you seriously. I should have know that when you said "Whatever. This isn't about me." what you meant is that you were making it all about *me*.
    Last edited by billms; 07-15-2010 at 06:42 PM.
    What, me worry?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by billms View Post

    If there is a good effective treatment your doctor will already know about it.
    That presumes that you even bother bringing it up, particularly if it's a chronic condition (like my migraines) for which you had spent decades of ineffective treatments with debilitating side effects.

    Or even that "blue pill." We snicker at the ads, but there are many men whose last discussion with the doctor was at a time when the best remedy was an implant.

  13. #93
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    Then they aren't listening to their doctor anyway - who would tell them that they should be in for an annual physical in any case.
    What, me worry?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by billms View Post
    Then they aren't listening to their doctor anyway - who would tell them that they should be in for an annual physical in any case.
    No, the doctor wouldn't. I've never heard that as a recommendation except for women on the pill. And I don't think that any insurance policy would cover it. I know medicare doesn't.

  15. #95
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    Wow. For 20 years I've been getting regular checkups, each doctor has mentioned it and expects it, and under each insurance company (we seem to change every year) they are covered. Maybe texas is a bit backwards?

    Also apparently they have now come to medicare - should have been there a long time ago!

    The Progressive Pulse – New Health Reform Law: People on Medicare get free annual checkup, free preventive services
    What, me worry?

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by billms View Post
    Wow. For 20 years I've been getting regular checkups, each doctor has mentioned it and expects it, and under each insurance company (we seem to change every year) they are covered. Maybe texas is a bit backwards?

    Also apparently they have now come to medicare - should have been there a long time ago!

    The Progressive Pulse – New Health Reform Law: People on Medicare get free annual checkup, free preventive services
    Or maybe forward? Most healthy adults don't need a full checkup every year.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by billms View Post
    Bill suggests the FDA is doing the right thing. Shabba says bill is wrong. Bill says the FDA controls prescriptions. Shabba ****s it up by saying bill is wrong and the states control prescriptions. Bill says Shabba sees no role for the FDA. Shabba says bill is wrong the FDA should do exactly what they have been doing. Which is exactly what bill said in the beginning that Shabba said was wrong.

    OK - got it finally - i fell for it hook line and sinker. You are trolling. I could say Shabba is right and you would say bill is wrong. You've been playing BS the whole time.

    I only regret taking you seriously. I should have know that when you said "Whatever. This isn't about me." what you meant is that you were making it all about *me*.
    Quit stalking me, lil' Bill.
    ‎"For lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land."

    William Earnest Harwell (1918-2010), from the Song of Solomon.

  18. #98
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    Thats true but they do need to see a doctor in a situation that allows preventative intervention at least every 3 years or so.
    What, me worry?

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by shabba4detroit View Post
    Quit stalking me, lil' Bill.
    its good to see you returning to your most well reasoned material
    What, me worry?

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