Rahm Emanuel uses insult "retarded"

[Oblong]

yep. For the life of me I don't get it. If I'm in an area with a large Jewish population and were told "Happy Hannukah" by a clerk in a store, I'd thank them for the well wishes.

[DetroitCity313]

As I said, I am not offended by it.

I just think its silly to make a big deal out of it when you consider a lot of people don't celebrate Christmas and do celebrate other holidays. I will wish Christians merry x-mas, Jews happy Chanukah and those who celebrate Kwanzaa happy Kwanzaa.

Are you so against including all people with the statement "happy holidays"? I mean hey, knock yourself out saying Merry Christmas, doesn't bother me, I just think understanding that people do celebrate other things is a matter of common sense and respect.

If a store decides to say Happy HOlidays instead of Merry Christmas it is understanding that their customers are not all Christians and do celebrate other things. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

This is not a Christian nation and to go around saying Merry Christmas to everyone even though they might be Jewish, atheist, agnostic, whatever is silly.

Then why, pray tell, are Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving national holidays when Kwanzaa, Channukah, etc are not?

[pfife]

Originally Posted by Oblong

yep. For the life of me I don't get it. If I'm in an area with a large Jewish population and were told "Happy Hannukah" by a clerk in a store, I'd thank them for the well wishes.

I'm in agreement, but I also don't have an issue w/ store owners for instance mandating Happy Holidays instead, solely because it's a greeting that is applicable to many more people, and I'd imagine that greeting more people in an applicable way is good business move.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Then why, pray tell, are Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving national holidays when Kwanzaa, Channukah, etc are not?

Check out Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Also, according to Article VI Section 2 of the Constitution all treaties are the law of the land. I don't think it can be clearer. You can also look at many of the founding fathers' views on religion and Christianity which would seriously call into question whether they would ever want to establish a Christian nation.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Then why, pray tell, are Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving national holidays when Kwanzaa, Channukah, etc are not?

I think its because the people with the power to designate what days are holidays are Christians.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

Check out Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Again, please answer my question.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Again, please answer my question.

Just because most politicians are Christian or claim to be Christian (and have the power to determine what is or is not a holiday) does not mean this nation was founded on Christianity.

[Duane B. Sims]

Originally Posted by pfife

I'm in agreement, but I also don't have an issue w/ store owners for instance mandating Happy Holidays instead, solely because it's a greeting that is applicable to many more people, and I'd imagine that greeting more people in an applicable way is good business move.

I agree. But where PC comes in is when someone gets offended by seeing a Christmas tree, manger, etc.

I don't think they should put mangers on city government property, because it's flirting with the church/state line.

If a private business wants to put up a manger, however, nobody should be offended by it. And if they are, then they're being overly PC.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by pfife

I think its because the people with the power to designate what days are holidays are Christians.

This could be correct. For the record: I don't think the US is a Christian nation nor would I want it to be. I do believe it was founded on Christian principles.

I just like to throw that question out there to people espousing their views on the particular religion of a nation.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

Are the basic principles of Christianity (do not kill, steal, lie, cheat, respect others) principles of Hinduism, Islam, Shintoism, Sikhism, Buddhism?

I dunno. Perhaps. How many people of those religions made up the founding fathers?

[Duane B. Sims]

I've always thought this nation was founded on the belief that people should be allowed to celebrate their religions without fear of persecution.

In other words, a private business or homeowner should be able to put up a Christmas tree without worrying he'll be picketed or branded insensitive.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

I dunno. Perhaps. How many people of those religions made up the founding fathers?

How many were Christians?

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Duane B. Sims

I've always thought this nation was founded on the belief that people should be allowed to celebrate their religions without fear of persecution.

In other words, a private business or homeowner should be able to put up a Christmas tree without worrying he'll be picketed or branded insensitive.

And how many private homeowners are picketed? Seems like an extremely rare situation because last I checked people put up decorations all over the place every year and no one cares. Honestly man, there is no war on Christmas. It is hardly even religious at this point, its a commercial holiday.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

How many were Christians?

24 out of 56.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Good question. I'm sure you know.

From what I remember most were Deist, not necessarily Christian.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

This could be correct. For the record: I don't think the US is a Christian nation nor would I want it to be. I do believe it was founded on Christian principles.

I just like to throw that question out there to people espousing their views on the particular religion of a nation.

I think that its founded on a number of near universal principles that are also Christian principles.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

From what I remember most were Deist, not necessarily Christian.

I edited my post. I checked and 24 were.

http://christianity.about.com/od/ind...ingfathers.htm

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

This is not a Christian nation and to go around saying Merry Christmas to everyone even though they might be Jewish, atheist, agnostic, whatever is silly.

Christmas is a term that refers to a particular day -- a federal holiday, I might add, that it is as much . When I say Merry Christmas, I am wishing that this particular day is merry for you -- regardless if you celebrate that day religiously or not, because, frankly, I've never known an atheist to turn down a Christmas present. Much like I presume that a wish for a Happy Hanukkah is a wish for me to have 8 happy days (and 8 crazy nights) regardless of whether I celebrate it or not.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

From what I remember most were Deist, not necessarily Christian.

this is what I've read too, but I don't know the breakdown in terms of proportion.

[Duane B. Sims]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

And how many private homeowners are picketed? Honestly man, there is no war on Christmas. It is hardly even religious at this point, its a commercial holiday.

A perfect example: Best Buy stopped mentioning Christmas in its advertising because it was determined to be offensive.

And yet the same chain had no problem wishing people "A happy Eid al-Adha this year."

That's PC.

Nobody said anything about a "war on Christmas." There is, however, a war against common sense.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

Christmas is a term that refers to a particular day -- a federal holiday, I might add, that it is as much . When I say Merry Christmas, I am wishing that this particular day is merry for you -- regardless if you celebrate that day religiously or not, because, frankly, I've never known an atheist to turn down a Christmas present. Much like I presume that a wish for a Happy Hanukkah is a wish for me to have 8 happy days (and 8 crazy nights) regardless of whether I celebrate it or not.

in that case, when someone tells me Merry Christmas, I'm now offended that they want me to only have 1 good day, and not 8. I will now tell everyone Happy Hanukkah.

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Then why, pray tell, are Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving national holidays when Kwanzaa, Channukah, etc are not?

Easter isn't a national holiday. Thanksgiving isn't a Christian holiday.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

I edited my post. I checked and 24 were.

Founding Fathers Quotes - Christian Quotes of the Founding Fathers

OK, if we take those numbers less than half were Christian..so wouldn't America be founded on Agnostic principles?

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

Easter isn't a national holiday.

It's not? It was observed as one when I served in the military.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

OK, if we take those numbers less than half were Christian..so wouldn't America be founded on Agnostic principles?

Only if someone didn't really know what Agnostic means.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Duane B. Sims

A perfect example: Best Buy stopped mentioning Christmas in its advertising because it was determined to be offensive.

And yet the same chain had no problem wishing people "A happy Eid al-Adha this year."

That's PC.

Nobody said anything about a "war on Christmas." There is, however, a war against common sense.

I think its common sense for Best Buy to understand Christmas is the same time frame as Chanakuh and so they use the generic Happy Holidays to greet Christians and Jews yet during Eid there is not another major religious holiday so they can wish Muslims happy Eid. It is what is best for business, and uses plenty of common sense.

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by Oblong

I do think the word needs to attain the same level of offensiveness as the "N" word.

(Second time I've used that today)

I think it's more offensive because it "attacks" a more defenseless group.

A black guy most likely has the ability and wherewithal to defend himself against the use of such offensive language either through rhetoric or the asswhupping he'll put upon the offender. A mentally handicapped person most likely does not have such ability or wherewithal.

[Duane B. Sims]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

And how many private homeowners are picketed?

It took me all of five minutes, in between doing my job, to find one example:

CNN.com - Transcripts


I'm certain there are more. I can do more exhaustive research on the matter if you wish. Or we can just stipulate that political correctness has gotten ridiculous in some circles.

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

It's not? It was observed as one when I served in the military.

Maybe it was just another Sunday.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

I think it's more offensive because it "attacks" a more defenseless group.

A black guy most likely has the ability and wherewithal to defend himself against the use of such offensive language either through rhetoric or the asswhupping he'll put upon the offender. A mentally handicapped person most likely does not have such ability or wherewithal.

Depending on when in history it was used that is true. In the time when lynchings were common, black people were pretty defenseless to the police and majority of the population- and if they did respond they could not defend their family which would be terrorized.

But yes..calling someone a retard is a low, low thing to do and one of the worst things to say in the English language along with the N word, C word to women, etc.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Duane B. Sims

It took me all of five minutes, in between doing my job, to find one example:

CNN.com - Transcripts


I'm certain there are more. I can do more exhaustive research on the matter if you wish. Or we can just stipulate that political correctness has gotten ridiculous in some circles.

Ya, there are some nutcases who are offended if someone celebrates Christmas in their own home or displays Christmas decorations but I think that is very, very rare.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

It's not? It was observed as one when I served in the military.

Yeah, I am pretty sure its not also. Maybe it coincided with a day off you had already?

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

I think its common sense for Best Buy to understand Christmas is the same time frame as Chanakuh and so they use the generic Happy Holidays to greet Christians and Jews yet during Eid there is not another major religious holiday so they can wish Muslims happy Eid. It is what is best for business, and uses plenty of common sense.

I agree. I think that when I say I am opposed to political correctness, I am opposed to two things -- one: the abuse of "tolerance" to silence opposition.

For instance, if someone is opposed to same sex marriage, it is pc gone wrong to label him a homophobe in order to silence his opinion. Or if someone is in favor of making English the official language, to call him a bigot or racist to silence his opinion. That's PC gone wrong. That has a chilling effect on discourse and is rather harmful.

two: I am opposed to the inherent lack of common sense in political correctness. When it's common sense, it's just correct. When it goes beyond common sense, it's politically correct.

For instance, not calling black people the N word is not political correctness. It's merely being a decent human being. Avoiding the patently offensive is common sense. However, calling black people "African Americans," including all those poor African Americans who were injured or killed in HAITI (which makes them neither African nor American, for those who aren't getting the point) is political correctness.

[Oblong]

Difference between Public Holiday and Federal Holiday. Federal Holidays are decided by Congress. They are: New Year's Day, Martin Luther King, Inauguration Day (when applicable), Washington's Birthday, Memorial Day, Independance Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas.

Public Holidays are less formal. They can include Yom Kippur, Groundhog Day, St. Patrick's Day, Pulaski Day, Good Friday, Easter, Hannukah, etc. It's not up to the feds to decide these things but the group in question and the makers of the calendar!


We do not have National Holidays because that would be unconstitutional.

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

Depending on when in history it was used that is true. .

I can only account for the present. If you can show me how to use it at another point in history, I would prefer you show me how to use the sports almanac to make some well-placed bets, McFly.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

For instance, not calling black people the N word is not political correctness. It's merely being a decent human being. Avoiding the patently offensive is common sense. However, calling black people "African Americans," including all those poor African Americans who were injured or killed in HAITI (which makes them neither African nor American, for those who aren't getting the point) is political correctness.

LOL I haven't heard anyone call Haitians "African Americans" but that is hilariously stupid.

[pfife]

I think there are some cases where pepple just say that b/c its the common term for black people nowadays. Which reminds me, black people aren't black, they're brown.

[DetroitCity313]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

I can only account for the present. If you can show me how to use it at another point in history, I would prefer you show me how to use the sports almanac to make some well-placed bets, McFly.

Honestly man? I made a simple point that language changes over time and while your point does make sense (and I actually agreed with it) that there were points in time when African Americans did not have the "ability or wherewithal" to defend themselves.

[djhutch]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

I edited my post. I checked and 24 were.

Founding Fathers Quotes - Christian Quotes of the Founding Fathers

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

OK, if we take those numbers less than half were Christian..so wouldn't America be founded on Agnostic principles?

It seems to me the difference here is the definition of Christian. Biff, I believe, is using the common definition that Christian means "Follower of Christ." Just because 24 of the 56 were Christian by Biff's definition, does not preclude the founding of America being based on Christian principles, when you consider the number of founding fathers who were deists, believing that there is one God.

The point of setting up a new country was simple - to escape the tyranny of King George. Some of that tyranny came in the form of forced Catholicism, some of it came in the form of abusive taxes. The founding fathers, by and large, were God honoring men who did not want to set up a theocracy, but wanted to allow men & women to worship as THEY saw fit. That's why they said "We don't want Congress to make a law establishing religion" - & Congress hasn't. PC judges & politicians have now twisted that to mean "I'm not a Christian, so you can't put up a nativity at city hall."