Why are some people so upset with Obama's speech to the children?

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by DrWho17

You have backed off and now realize the content that was to be given in my post was correct, until it was changed after public outcry.

I haven't backed off anything.

Now that the content of the speech is out, do YOU want to back off? Or do you still really believe this is about indoctrinating children rather than making a simple speech about staying in school?

The only reason that the phrase "help the President" was changed was to appease the people who went ape **** over something innocuous. Because it was innocuous, they changed it. Why fight over a stupid line in a lesson plan? If people are really going to get THAT worked up about, just change it.

It's no use fighting over something that stupid. If your side realized that, it would never have been an unnecessary national issue in the first place.

It was changed because people objected to the political stuff I included in my original post, not because "people don't like Obama" as I mentioned in my post.

I think this is untrue for the reasons stated above. The people playing "politics" here are the people such as yourself who are getting all worked up over a throwaway line in a lesson plan for a speech on staying in school.

Your paranoia and Obama hatred are driving this "issue," not anything Obama has said or done. This is only confirmed by the content of the speech itself.

I also mentioned in my original post no one would really care much about it, I wouldn't, if he was just welcoming the kids back to school and advising them to study hard and use his personal example to inspire the children into the future.

And now that the speech has actually come out, can you admit that you were "caring" for nothing?

You don't like the Chavez comparison that is nice I didn't like all the Hitler references to Bush either, and how the patriot act was going to move us into a Bush dictatorship. I'll continue to amuse myself with equal accusations against "your guy".

You can amuse yourself all you want, however, I'm sure you are aware that you are simply mimicking the same behavior you once found so reprehensible. Instead of repeating it, maybe you should not act that way? Or, if you insist, don't be astonished when people get mad about it.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

You keep telling yourself that.

Don't you think it's similar? I do.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Why do I want to help the president, when I believe helping him will hurt the country.

Don't you feel a little silly now that the content of the speech has been released?

I'm not in favor of his presidential citizen police force, I'm not in favor of the recent appointment of an FCC chairman who has expressed admiration for Hugo Chavez's handling of the media and laid out detailed plans to silence media opposition.

Wow, load on the hyperbole Batman. What was that you said about people overreacting to the Patriot Act?

I'm not in favor of the government Nationalizing the banks, big industry, or the health care system.

Fair enough. Hard to see what this has to do with responsibility and staying in school, but whatever.

I'm opposed to policies which lead to increased wealth redistribution.

Darn those Democrats and their attempt to help poor people.

I'm opposed to having people in a position of power in the Executive branch who support violent revolution and overthrow of the government, I'm opposed to advisors who support Eugenics, I'm opposed to advisors who support forced euthanasia. I'm opposed to appeasing dictators in the hopes that they will reciprocate in kind.

Well, then you should have no beef with Obama. Unless, of course, you're referring to internet rumors and quotes taken without context. If so, then I'm glad we got rid of a President who hates black people, ordered 9/11 to secure the power of the executive, and invaded Iraq to avenge the failed assasination of his father. Phew! That was lucky, huh?

It's not in my interest to see a president succeed who I think if he succeeds will turn America into something I don't want it to be, which is a land dominated by mediocrity.

See hyperbole comment, supra

[monkeynuts]

Originally Posted by hueytaxi

Looney toon right wing extremist.....

Considering he flipped out before ever reading the speech, I think he still qualifies as a little whacky.

[DrWho17]

Buddha, you are moving the goalpost, I posted quotes from the lesson plans passed out to the schools and stated that's what I didn't like, before the WH used better judgement and changed the speech and rewrote the additional materials as to be less politically oriented in nature. Now that the speech is out is irrelevant, at the time of the post my quotes were accurate.

WH withdraws call for students to 'help' Obama - Washington Times

I posted in my original post I wouldn't care if it was just something about staying in school and working hard, I think I even posted somewhere that I wouldn't have a problem if Obama used his own personal story as an example of where working hard in school can get you.

The rest of the stuff was you responded to is my interpretation of the facts at hand of the subjects, feel free to disagree all you like, you have trust in politicians or at least this politician, I don't especially with professed communist, professed domestic terrorist and professed socialist included in his administration as policy advisors. It may not concern you but it does me.

I will stop comparing Obama to dictators directly, I'll just note his plans similarity to other countries plans, and pledge to not do it for amusement any longer as you correctly stated two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not a Republican really either before you classify me, I have conservative viewpoints and if I had to classify myself I would call myself a Libertarian. I believe both of the big parties are concerned about nothing more then accumulating power and are corrupt operations. I would favor Republicans over Democrats this is true, but that is only because the choice is between bad and really bad.

[MrDeeds]

Interesting to find out that when GHW Bush spoke to students, Democrats held investigative hearings on Capitol Hill and the Washington Post ran a front page story claiming the speech to be a political stunt that exploited students. What a bunch of whackos.

When Bush spoke to students, Democrats investigated, held hearings | Washington Examiner

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Don't you think it's similar? I do.

Think what's similar? Seriously, before I answer, I think I need some clarification.

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Buddha

What the frick did they think he was going to say? Every protest over this has been a massive overreaction, IMO.

The entire overreaction could have been avoided if the Obama administration had been clear about the contents of the speech from the beginning. The fact that this whole incident occurred shows that the administration doesn't really understand all the people (not just Dem supporters) that they are representing.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Interesting to find out that when GHW Bush spoke to students, Democrats held investigative hearings on Capitol Hill and the Washington Post ran a front page story claiming the speech to be a political stunt that exploited students. What a bunch of whackos.

When Bush spoke to students, Democrats investigated, held hearings | Washington Examiner

Once again, there is nothing unique about the current political bickering. The only difference is that the people who liked it in December are upset and vice versa.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

Think what's similar? Seriously, before I answer, I think I need some clarification.

Then hatred for Bush and the hatred for Obama. I think they're similar. Lots of overreaction to anything they do/did.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Interesting to find out that when GHW Bush spoke to students, Democrats held investigative hearings on Capitol Hill and the Washington Post ran a front page story claiming the speech to be a political stunt that exploited students. What a bunch of whackos.

When Bush spoke to students, Democrats investigated, held hearings | Washington Examiner

Like I said, it was stupid then and it's stupid now.

I'm all for not having an "imperial Presidency," but come on, show some respect for the office.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by thewave84

The entire overreaction could have been avoided if the Obama administration had been clear about the contents of the speech from the beginning. The fact that this whole incident occurred shows that the administration doesn't really understand all the people (not just Dem supporters) that they are representing.

I don't think it shows that at all. I think it shows that some people will overreact to anything that Obama does.

And those people will get the most attention on "news" shows and internet message boards because their opinions are controversial. They cause people to get upset and take sides and show interest in an otherwise completely uninteresting topic.

To me, this is much more about the need to feed the 24 hour news cycle than it is about anything else.

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Buddha

I don't think it shows that at all. I think it shows that some people will overreact to anything that Obama does.

And those people will get the most attention on "news" shows and internet message boards because their opinions are controversial. They cause people to get upset and take sides and show interest in an otherwise completely uninteresting topic.

To me, this is much more about the need to feed the 24 hour news cycle than it is about anything else.

I disagree. If they had said from the beginning that this is going to be a completely non-partisan speech about the importance of staying in school and listening to your teachers there would have been no problem. And especially if they hadn't included the part about writing how you can "help Obama" during a time when everyone knows that Obama favors a very controversial health-care package. Yes, people misinterpreted the point of the speech, but I think the administration gave them plenty to misinterpret.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Buddha, you are moving the goalpost, I posted quotes from the lesson plans passed out to the schools and stated that's what I didn't like, before the WH used better judgement and changed the speech and rewrote the additional materials as to be less politically oriented in nature. Now that the speech is out is irrelevant, at the time of the post my quotes were accurate.

WH withdraws call for students to 'help' Obama - Washington Times

I posted in my original post I wouldn't care if it was just something about staying in school and working hard, I think I even posted somewhere that I wouldn't have a problem if Obama used his own personal story as an example of where working hard in school can get you.

I'm not moving the goal posts at all. What's the objection to saying "help the President?" Help with what?

You have to take that lesson plan with the context of what he's going to say in the speech. Being the rational person that I am, I figured the Obama speech would be nothing more than a "stay in school, take responsibility" type speech.

I don't have a problem with the President telling students to do that. I don't have a problem with a lesson plan following that speech offering advice on what to ask students, and I don't have a problem with them asking them to help the President in almost any logical scenario, especially when the speech is going to be centered on going to school and doing well.

As I said before, they changed the speech because the one line to which you objected was nothing. It was a throwaway and when a few people got crazy about it, they just changed it. It wasn't an admission of anything, it was just a bone to shut people up. It was inconsequential. It always has been.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by thewave84

I disagree. If they had said from the beginning that this is going to be a completely non-partisan speech about the importance of staying in school and listening to your teachers there would have been no problem. And especially if they hadn't included the part about writing how you can "help Obama" during a time when everyone knows that Obama favors a very controversial health-care package. Yes, people misinterpreted the point of the speech, but I think the administration gave them plenty to misinterpret.

We will disagree then. When I see the President making a speech to a bunch of kids, I don't assume the worst because I don't agree with him. Apparently that's what many people here did.

Although seeing the speech Reagan gave, maybe I should reasses my postion? Then again, I can guarantee you that everyone who got all hot and bothered about what Obama might say would never cast the same aspersions over the great Gipper.

[Boilerfan]

Write me a letter -- and I'm serious about this one -- write me a letter about ways you can help us achieve our goals.

GHW Bush In an address to students on October 1, 1991.

George Bush Presidential Library and Museum :: Public Papers - 1991 - October

I see that when a Republican does this it is doing what is best for the country. If a Democrat does it is is brainwashing Socialism. Yes Democrats were upset when he gave this speech, read the speech, it had some political parts to it. It was silly to get upset about it then and it is just as silly now.

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Boilerfan

George Bush Presidential Library and Museum :: Public Papers - 1991 - October

I see that when a Republican does this it is doing what is best for the country. If a Democrat does it is is brainwashing Socialism. Yes Democrats were upset when he gave this speech, read the speech, it had some political parts to it. It was silly to get upset about it then and it is just as silly now.

The funny thing about it is the complaints against Bush were Democratic congress members, not some fringe bloggers or wacko parents. So I would think the judgementalism of some of our Dem-leaning posters might ease off a bit.

[CMRivdog]

Originally Posted by thewave84

The funny thing about it is the complaints against Bush were Democratic congress members, not some fringe bloggers or wacko parents. So I would think the judgementalism of some of our Dem-leaning posters might ease off a bit.

Most of not all the world was still on dial up then, if they had internet service. There were very few discussion boards. Fox News Channel was still a twinkle in Roger Ailes eye. MSNBC was not even thought about. CNN was ruled by King Ted.

Things were a whole lot different then

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by thewave84

The funny thing about it is the complaints against Bush were Democratic congress members, not some fringe bloggers or wacko parents. So I would think the judgementalism of some of our Dem-leaning posters might ease off a bit.

Which poster?

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Which poster?

I could probably find at least 10 in this thread.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by thewave84

I could probably find at least 10 in this thread.

Like who?

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Like who?

You are a smart guy, if you review the thread I'm sure you can find some.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by thewave84

You are a smart guy, if you review the thread I'm sure you can find some.

Hey, if you want to cop out, that's fine with me. Most of the people on this thread have said that if/when the Democrats did the same thing, it was just as stupid.

I know that's what I've been saying.

[Boilerfan]

Originally Posted by thewave84

The funny thing about it is the complaints against Bush were Democratic congress members, not some fringe bloggers or wacko parents. So I would think the judgementalism of some of our Dem-leaning posters might ease off a bit.

And their complaints were that he used government money to deliver a political speech to school children. Yes their complaints were silly and partisan, but you can not deny the fact that he pushed his policies in the speech.

You never did address the fact he solicited letters from the kids.

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Boilerfan

You never did address the fact he solicited letters from the kids.

What was I supposed to address? Sorry, you might be confusing me with someone else. I don't think I complained about anything to do with letters.

[shabba4detroit]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Then hatred for Bush and the hatred for Obama. I think they're similar. Lots of overreaction to anything they do/did.

Absolutely it's similar. It's par for the course. There was Clinton hate and Reagan hate and Bush hate and Obama hate. There will always be naysayers.

But to suggest that the Obama hate is more visceral than the Bush hate, or that the Obama haters are less reasonable than the Bush haters is ridiculous.

[FloridaTigers]

I heard parts of the speech today on CNN a while ago. He spoke about "working hard" and "Your goal can be something as simple as doing all your homework, paying attention in class, or spending time each day reading a book."

The horrors! The horrors! Our kids are certainly pinko commies now!

[Melody]

Laura Bush, Newt Gingrich and Lamar Alexander, George H.W. Bush's former education secretary now a congressman representing TN, have all gone on record to endorse President Obama giving this speech, and speaking to school children in general.

Alexander called the controversy, "silly." I agree.

[Chaz]

for all those that protested his speech, what was the most scariest part of it? I have not seen it yet except for him saying take responsibility and don't drop out of school

[hueytaxi]

Originally Posted by Chaz

for all those that protested his speech, what was the most scariest part of it? I have not seen it yet except for him saying take responsibility and don't drop out of school

I listened and didn't find anything I would object to. Was there a GOP followup broadcast?

[billms]

i believe they are still in hiding with their fingers in their ears

[sub rosa]

Originally Posted by Chaz

for all those that protested his speech, what was the most scariest part of it? I have not seen it yet except for him saying take responsibility and don't drop out of school

he said all praises to allah and called on the spirit of karl marx to guide us through these tough times, and urged all the little children to smoke dope and drop out and burn the american flag.

other than that, it was pretty moderate.

[Chaz]

Originally Posted by sub rosa

he said all praises to allah and called on the spirit of karl marx to guide us through these tough times, and urged all the little children to smoke dope and drop out and burn the american flag.

other than that, it was pretty moderate.

You know, I was hoping he would not mention that stuff

[DrWho17]

Here's an article comparing the reaction to Bush Sr.'s speech to schoolchildren. Probably no congressional investigation this time will be forthcoming.

1991 Bush speech to schools spurred congressional investigation

[Melody]

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Here's an article comparing the reaction to Bush Sr.'s speech to schoolchildren. Probably no congressional investigation this time will be forthcoming.

1991 Bush speech to schools spurred congressional investigation

Thanks for that link. I didn't remember a congressional investigation at ALL. And that was during the period of time I was serving on the PTA board at a public school so we were being fed a lot of education related political news.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Here's an article comparing the reaction to Bush Sr.'s speech to schoolchildren. Probably no congressional investigation this time will be forthcoming.

1991 Bush speech to schools spurred congressional investigation

C'mon Doc. Didn't you get the memo that only Republicans overreact stupidly to Presidential speeches to children?

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by Chaz

for all those that protested his speech, what was the most scariest part of it? I have not seen it yet except for him saying take responsibility and don't drop out of school

I think many people on the right protested the speech because they were worried about this happening:

CNSNews.com - Obama Pitched Universal Health Care to Students in Meeting Prior to His Speech on Education

Although the president avoided controversial topics in his speech, he did promote health care reform in a face-to-face discussion at Wakefield High School. Asked by a student how he stays motivated to do his job, Obama replied that his staff gives him 10 letters every day from “ordinary folks.”

“Some of the stories are really depressing,” Obama told the 40 freshman, who were chosen to meet with the president during freshman orientation, according to school officials.

“You hear about people who are sick but don't have health care, and suddenly they get a bill for $100,000, and there's no way they can pay for it, and they're about to lose their house. And you’re just reminded that the country is full of really good people who sometimes are going through a hard time,” Obama said.

“They just need a break. They need a little bit of help. Maybe the way things are set up right now isn't always fair for people, and that motivates you, because you say, well, I can't make everything perfect, I can't prevent somebody from getting sick, but maybe I can make sure that they've got insurance so that when they do get sick, they're going to get some help.”

Another student asked the president about health care in Iraq and Afghanistan: “And my question is, currently 36 countries have universal health coverage, including Iraq and Afghanistan, which have it paid for by the United States. Why can't the United States have universal health coverage?”

“Well, I think that’s the question I’ve been asking Congress, because I think we need it,” Obama said. “I think we can do it. And I'm going to be making a speech tomorrow night, talking about my plan to make sure that everybody has access to affordable health care.”

Obama told the students that in the 1940s and 50s, “most of the wealthy countries around the world decided to set up health care systems that covered everybody. The United States -- for a number of different reasons -- organized their health care around employer-based health insurance.”

Obama noted that most Americans received health insurance through their jobs. “And you can see some problems with that,” Obama continued: “Number one is, if you lose your job, then you don’t have health insurance. The other thing is some employers may not want to do right by their employees by giving them health insurance, and then they're kind of out of luck.”

Obama noted that the majority of Americans still have health insurance through their jobs: “Most of them are happy with it, but a lot of people fall through the cracks,” Obama said. “If you’re self-employed, if you start your own business, if you are working in a job that doesn't offer health insurance, then you’re -- you have real problems.

“So what we’re trying to do is set up a system where people who have health insurance on the job, they can keep it, but if you don't have health insurance for the job, if you’re self-employed, if you’re unemployed, that you're able to get health insurance through another way,” Obama said.

“And we can afford to do it and it will actually, I think, over time save us money if we set that up.”

I'm glad he didn't go down that road when he did his national address, but I can understand why parents were initially concerned. I'm VERY glad this stupid thing is over. It started to feel like the media was never going to stop talking about it!

[Boilerfan]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

I think many people on the right protested the speech because they were worried about this happening:

CNSNews.com - Obama Pitched Universal Health Care to Students in Meeting Prior to His Speech on Education



I'm glad he didn't go down that road when he did his national address, but I can understand why parents were initially concerned. I'm VERY glad this stupid thing is over. It started to feel like the media was never going to stop talking about it!

I listened to that. He was taking questions from kids. Was he not to answer them? Or was he to screen the questions so nothing political was asked?

[Boilerfan]

Originally Posted by Mark The Shark

C'mon Doc. Didn't you get the memo that only Republicans overreact stupidly to Presidential speeches to children?

First off let me say once again that the outrage over both speeches was silly.

I do think that there is a difference between the two, though. In 91 the Dems felt his speech was political and came at a time when the campaign for the election of 92 was getting started. It also came after the speech was delivered. The outrage over Obama's speech came before the speech was given and was about fears that he was indoctrinating kids into communism/socialism/fascism or what ever ism you want.

[ewsieg]

Originally Posted by Boilerfan

I listened to that. He was taking questions from kids. Was he not to answer them? Or was he to screen the questions so nothing political was asked?

He has no problem planting questions any other time, why is it so shocking some of us on the right might think he might have planted some more?