John Dingell's Town hall on healthcare in Romulus

[Ingefanclub]

YouTube - John Dingell booed, jeered at townhall meeting

This protesting stuff is fun! I can see why the hippies liked it so much in the 60s. I was at the Tax Tea Party in Lansing on April 15th and got some footage but haven't put it on youtube yet.

The democrats are really getting slammed like never before. Clinton really was lucky not to have the internet usage like today but then again Clinton all in all didn't do that bad a job as President.

By the way Dingell did not announce this townhall until Thursday morning..it took place Thursday night and lines stretched around the building as people tried to get in but was far too many people to all make it in.

[Sparks4Ever]

Dingell does not deserve that kind of treatment. All this shows me is that right-wing protesters can be just as rude as left-wing or anti-war protesters. Embarrassing.

[CMRivdog]

I'm going to throw this in here....maybe it belongs in the multi page right/left wing are rabble rouser thread..

Why The Brawls of August Are Good - The Atlantic Politics Channel

At least you can say there's some civic engagement going on.Yes, a lot of it is based on fear mongering and stoked emotions. Rush Limbaugh's rant yesterday comparing the "Democrat party" to Hitler was among the more absurd things ever spoken. But the enemy of legislation is apathy and we're not in an apathetic season. There's real passion over this issue, even if a lot of it is based on willful ignorance.

[hueytaxi]

Same problem developed into a near riot during a St. Petersburg town hall meeting on health care two days agol.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by Sparks4Ever

Dingell does not deserve that kind of treatment. All this shows me is that right-wing protesters can be just as rude as left-wing or anti-war protesters. Embarrassing.

Left-wing and anti-war protesters aren't rude. At least, that's what I've been hearing on this site lately.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with vocalizing your displeasure at your elected representatives. I don't think the meeting should be "disrupted," but some boos are perfectly appropriate. I don't get to complain when my boss yells at me; our elected representatives are in no better position.

[Oblong]

at least the right wing ones take showers.

[TheCouga]

Originally Posted by Mark The Shark

Left-wing and anti-war protesters aren't rude. At least, that's what I've been hearing on this site lately.

No, you haven't.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by TheCouga

No, you haven't.

That's exactly what the implication has been.

[TheCouga]

Originally Posted by Mark The Shark

That's exactly what the implication has been.

No, it hasn't.

The implication has been that pundits and politicians on the left do not actively encourage screaming, yelling, anger, putting the "fear of god" into your politicians, and comparing the President to a Nazi at what would otherwise be an informative, civil event -- while the politicians and pundits on the right do.

Nowhere in this implication does it infer that no one on the left is crazy, nor does it infer that no one on the left protests.

[holygoat]

"Get in their faces."

[TheCouga]

Originally Posted by holygoat

"Get in their faces."

You can't possibly be comparing that to what is advocated by right-wing leaders, can you?

[Edman85]

Originally Posted by TheCouga

You can't possibly be comparing that to what is advocated by right-wing leaders, can you?

Any specific examples? Limbaugh doesn't count.

[DrWho17]

I saw Nancy Pelosi compare protestors to Nazi's, I saw Brian Baird compare them to Timothy McVeigh and later Hitler's brown shirts, I saw Obama invite the American people to shut up, and advise his supporters to hit back twice as hard, as the SEIU thugs did to the poor guy in Florida.

Have you been listening to the Liberal pundits and the whitehouse calling these people plants and nutjobs? Or the whitehouse putting up a webpage wanting email addresses of people opposed to their plan? Pretty demeaning and threatening stuff to be saying to the majority of Americans, and it's the majority of Americans who are against this health care takeover.

Dingle deserved what he got, he held a town hall meeting on health care, and the people in the audience were more familiar with the specifics of the proposed bills then he was.

The silent majority is now in force, and will not be silent anymore. I'm pretty upbeat about this, the American people are fighting back, the Government should be afraid of the people not the other way around.

[MrDeeds]

Originally Posted by DrWho17

I saw Nancy Pelosi compare protestors to Nazi's, I saw Brian Baird compare them to Timothy McVeigh and later Hitler's brown shirts, I saw Obama invite the American people to shut up, and advise his supporters to hit back twice as hard, as the SEIU thugs did to the poor guy in Florida.

Have you been listening to the Liberal pundits and the whitehouse calling these people plants and nutjobs? Or the whitehouse putting up a webpage wanting email addresses of people opposed to their plan? Pretty demeaning and threatening stuff to be saying to the majority of Americans, and it's the majority of Americans who are against this health care takeover.

Dingle deserved what he got, he held a town hall meeting on health care, and the people in the audience were more familiar with the specifics of the proposed bills then he was.

The silent majority is now in force, and will not be silent anymore. I'm pretty upbeat about this, the American people are fighting back, the Government should be afraid of the people not the other way around.

These American's are too stupid to know what's good for them.

[TheCouga]

Originally Posted by Edman85

Any specific examples? Limbaugh doesn't count.

Why doesn't he count? Doesn't he have an audience of like 20 million conservatives or something? Should Glenn Beck not count, too?

What about all of the elected Republican Congressmen who have been feeding the birther conspiracy? What about the ones calling our President a Communist?

[holygoat]

When did Limbaugh encourage anybody to do anything other than show up and challenge Congressional members who support the bill? And second hand hearsay doesn't count.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by TheCouga

Why doesn't he count? Doesn't he have an audience of like 20 million conservatives or something? Should Glenn Beck not count, too?

What about all of the elected Republican Congressmen who have been feeding the birther conspiracy? What about the ones calling our President a Communist?

You didn't seem so upset when it was Al Gore claiming that George W. Bush "betrayed this country" or with all the crap being spewed on Daily Kos or Democratic Underground.

I understand you're upset that the GOP is going after "your guy" in the White House in a manner you think is unfair. I just don't feel particularly sympathetic after the past 8 years.

[holygoat]

Let's take a ride in the Way-Back Machine!:

USA Today 3/16/2005:

Santorum was among dozens of members of Congress who ran gantlets of demonstrators and shouted over hecklers at Social Security events last month. Many who showed up to protest were alerted by e-mails and bused in by anti-Bush organizations such as MoveOn.org and USAction, a liberal advocacy group. They came with prepared questions and instructions on how to confront lawmakers.

MoveOn, which campaigned against Bush's re-election and is now focused on defeating his Social Security proposals, has issued a guide for activists. It includes such tips as: "Ask pointed questions that put the representative or senator on record on important issues like benefit cuts, raising the retirement age and new debt necessary to pay for privatization." It also includes a section on "How to talk to a conservative about Social Security (if you must)." The group says it sent activists to 28 meetings.

Pryce says of such efforts: "It's 'Rabble Rousing 101.' " She contends that the groups gave their followers "everything but eggs to throw at us."

BTW, that is true astroturf, and they had no compunction about being up front about it. Neither did Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer or Barack Obama have any problem with a billion-dollar political action organization bussing in professional protesters to fight against Social Security reforms. Back then, this was considered to be the nec plus ultra of community organized, grass-roots activism in motion.

Today, the very same people decry such actions as thug tactics akin to membership in the Nazi Party, nevermind the fact that they have no evidence of any Obama protesters being bussed to town hall meetings, or anyone carrying swastikas. But the most farcical part is that, even if they could present solid evidence that those protesting the Democrat health takeover were funded and organized by Rush Limbaugh himself, they would have no grounds to criticize them, as they are the inventors and perfecters of such tactics.

Just a little something to keep in mind as you hear politicians and Big Media refer to these protestors as "astroturf", "thugs" and "Nazis".

[Ingefanclub]

Dingell has been a congressman for 54 years.
He is older than a tree.

[pfife]

damn I looked for Michigan ones and didn't see one online. I wanted to go to one of these. This one was probably less than 1/2 hour from my house.

[sloan]

i love this stuff, and i love that the dems are so scared that they have to put the idea out there that these 'mobs' are put in place by the right. give me a break. these are angry americans. i'm one of them, i have not been able to make it out to a meeting, however. i'm not paid, i'm not a republican, but you bet your *** i'd be in dingle's face the way these people were. i'm proud that americans are getting fed up with gov't. i'm happy with the idea of 'taking back the country'. i don't want the govt's hands in everything. i do not believe gov't run anything is truly successful. i think there must be some middle ground to this health care issue. i don't know what it is though.

additionally, i just don't get how liberals feel good about sitting back and letting the gov't take over things like health care. i wish someone could explain the whole 'they'll take care of us' mentality.

[billms]

the fact is that the gop, lobbiests and fox are doing a lot to build this up - that does not mean some people are not going on their own - and the fact that you wanted to go doesn't mean they are manufacturing a lot of it

how about this - if you think the country has gone somewhere and has to be taken back i guess you don't love it enough - so why don't you just leave? :)

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by billms

the fact is that the gop, lobbiests and fox are doing a lot to build this up

That used to be called Community Organizing. Obama just doesn't like it anymore because they are organizing to oppose Him.

[billms]

Good point - ACORN has always had lots big corporate money.

[TheCouga]

Originally Posted by sloan

i love this stuff, and i love that the dems are so scared that they have to put the idea out there that these 'mobs' are put in place by the right.

The mobs aren't scary to the Democrats. They are a godsend. They allow the Democrats to portray Republicans as a bunch of looney tunes who are fed lies and misinformation by AM radio and conspiracy theory websites. They make the GOP far less appealing for moderates and independents.

Originally Posted by sloan

additionally, i just don't get how liberals feel good about sitting back and letting the gov't take over things like health care. i wish someone could explain the whole 'they'll take care of us' mentality.

I don't understand how letting private insurers "take care of us" is any better. Why is it so appealing to you to be "taken care of" by large corporations? Is it any better than being "taken care of" by government? You're "taken care of" by dozens of organizations each day. The police department "takes care of you" by protecting you from crime. The US military "takes care of you" by protecting our borders. The water treatment people "take care of you" by making sure your drinking and bathing water is clean. The FDA "takes care of you" by ensuring your food is not diseased. Would we really be better off if nobody was "taking care of us"?

I think what you need to do is define what "take care of" really means. To me, it's just a mindless slogan that means absolutely nothing that conservative pundits use to make the thought of government doing anything look weak.

[eastside billee]

Good point - ACORN has always had lots big corporate money.

Now they're using my money to do their dirty work. Now we see SEIU and ACORN
activists in their unorganized matching T-Shirts trying to intimidate people attending Town Hall meetings who disagree with Obama's policy. I'd be damned if they'd intimidate me. Although they did beat one guy in St. Louis. I find it so funny that when people use the "Hitler card" when referring to Obama, everyone gets so upset and appalled.....but yet using Gestapo tactics to shut up citizens is supposed to be considered transparent, and uniting the Nation. Nice job Mr. O. These tactics won't last too long. There's too many of us and not enough of them. It's also quite funny that two union members yell racial slurs at a black man and then punch him in the face, and so far neither Obama, Carnahan or the SEIU has condemned the union thugs for “acting stupidly.”

You know how several people on this board say about Palin "I hope she runs"......well,
I hope Obama raises taxes. For the first time in my life I want the President to raise my taxes and raise them high! Please Mr. Dimwit, I mean President, I want to be a Patriot. Raise my taxes - go ahead....make my day.

I'm done rambling.

[ewsieg]

Originally Posted by TheCouga

Why doesn't he count? Doesn't he have an audience of like 20 million conservatives or something? Should Glenn Beck not count, too?

Because when you listen to Rush in context you understand that's not what he's saying. Glen Beck, he's bi-polar. Sometimes I can't think of someone more correct than him, sometimes I can't think of anyone more wrong than him.

Instead, you folks on the left love to take a snippet and run with it. Don't get me wrong, my side does too, but at least we admit it.

[sinister porpoise]

Limbaugh Wire | Media Matters for America

[TheCouga]

Originally Posted by ewsieg

Because when you listen to Rush in context you understand that's not what he's saying.

I've known quite a few Limbaugh listeners, and they all seem to take him pretty seriously. So seem to be the people showing up at these town halls. Maybe you realize that's not what he's really saying, because you take him with a grain of salt, but I'm not sure most (or even the majority of his listeners) do the same.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

Limbaugh Wire | Media Matters for America

Media matters never, ever takes things out of context.

[sinister porpoise]

Your basis for implying that Media Matters takes things out of context is what besides blind partisanship? Because no, they do not take things out of context. They provide full context with everything they post.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

Your basis for implying that Media Matters takes things out of context is what besides blind partisanship? Because no, they do not take things out of context. They provide full context with everything they post.

Your basis for believing everything they say is what besides partisanship and their agreement with your worldview?

[sinister porpoise]

Originally Posted by Mark The Shark

Your basis for believing everything they say is what besides partisanship and their agreement with your worldview?

They post transcripts and/or recordings of media figures saying things. Independently verifiable.

So for example
Limbaugh: "Adolf Hitler, like Barack Obama, also ruled by dictate" | Media Matters for America
they have a headline of a quote and then there's a video. Full context unless I find or am given reason to think otherwise.

[holygoat]

Originally Posted by billms

how about this - if you think the country has gone somewhere and has to be taken back i guess you don't love it enough - so why don't you just leave? :)

My guess is that he'd rather fight for what he believes in than just cede it to those who would steal his freedom for themselves. :)

[holygoat]

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

They post transcripts and/or recordings of media figures saying things. Independently verifiable.

So for example
Limbaugh: "Adolf Hitler, like Barack Obama, also ruled by dictate" | Media Matters for America
they have a headline of a quote and then there's a video. Full context unless I find or am given reason to think otherwise.

You'll notice that Limbaugh was reacting specifically to Nancy Pelosi's claim that town hall protesters we're showing up carrying swastikas, a tacit accusation that they are Nazis, and pointing out that the current Democratic Party leadership is closer to the Nazi ideal than are the protesters they smear with that label. When pushed, the Liberal leadership either plays the racist or Nazi card. They've got nothing else.

Their claims of "astroturf" are laughably hollow, coming as they do from the Party who invented and perfected it. Busing in paid MoveOn.org protesters to fight Social Security reform = grassroots community organizing; driving yourself to protest Democrat health proposal = fake, astroturf thuggery. That dog just won't hunt, and a majority of the American public knows it.

[sinister porpoise]

Originally Posted by holygoat

You'll notice that Limbaugh was reacting specifically to Nancy Pelosi's claim that town hall protesters we're showing up carrying swastikas, a tacit accusation that they are Nazis, and pointing out that the current Democratic Party leadership is closer to the Nazi ideal than are the protesters they smear with that label.

Daily Dose - ADL Condemns Nazi Slurs in Health-Care Debate

The ADL, the nation's largest Jewish civil rights group, focused particular criticism on conservative talk-show host Rush Limbaugh, who has compared President Obama's health-care reform logo to a swastika symbol and has repeatedly likened Obama to Adolf Hitler, who ordered the systematic murders of 6 million Jews and millions of others.

"Regardless of the political differences and the substantive differences in the debate over health care, the use of Nazi symbolism is outrageous, offensive and inappropriate," said ADL national director Abraham H. Foxman, a Holocaust survivor. "Americans should be able to disagree on the issues without coloring it with Nazi imagery and comparisons to Hitler. This is not where the debate should be at all."

A handful of protesters and speakers who have disrupted town halls hosted by Democratic members of Congress over the past week have sought to compare Obama administration policies to those of the Nazis by waving placards featuring swastikas or by making the connection during speeches. During a meeting in Denver co-hosted by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Thursday, for example, a toddler in a stroller was photographed holding a sign featuring a crossed-out swastika and the slogan: "Say No to Fascism!"

The comparisons appear to stem in part from erroneous claims by opponents, including some Republican lawmakers, that a House health-care reform bill would lead to euthanasia for the elderly. The bill includes a proposal to allow Medicare to reimburse physicians who counsel elderly or terminally-ill patients about what medical interventions they would prefer near the end of life and how to prepare instructions such as living wills.

Limbaugh has made numerous Nazi comparisons during his critiques of Democratic health-care proposals, arguing that there are numerous "similarities between the Democratic Party of today and the Nazis in Germany" and saying: "Adolf Hitler, like Barack Obama, also ruled by dictate." Fox News television host Glenn Beck also accused the Obama administration of being "in love with eugenics," the discredited racial theory embraced by the Nazis.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

Daily Dose - ADL Condemns Nazi Slurs in Health-Care Debate

Isn't that Couga holding up one of those signs?

[Edman85]

Originally Posted by TheCouga

Why doesn't he count? Doesn't he have an audience of like 20 million conservatives or something? Should Glenn Beck not count, too?

What about all of the elected Republican Congressmen who have been feeding the birther conspiracy? What about the ones calling our President a Communist?

He's not Speaker of the House. He's not in Congress. He's not the President.

[Edman85]

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

Your basis for implying that Media Matters takes things out of context is what besides blind partisanship? Because no, they do not take things out of context. They provide full context with everything they post.

It was in response to Pelosi implying those opposing UHC are Nazi's!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't get what all the rage is about. The Speaker of the House calls one side nazis, no media coverage. A radio host calls the other nazis in direct response ("Mrs. Pelosi, you asked for this."), everybody gets bent out of shape... What the **** is with the double standard?

[Oblong]

Originally Posted by Edman85

He's not Speaker of the House. He's not in Congress. He's not the President.

yeah but then who does Couga have to represent the other side in such a negative way? Your taking away his whole argument and his sole reason to exist.