damn I looked for Michigan ones and didn't see one online. I wanted to go to one of these. This one was probably less than 1/2 hour from my house.
Right....Dingell announced the meeting on Thursday morning and it was held Thursday evening. They were hoping to suppress the mob by not announcing a meeting until the last minute. I am sure they succeeded in keeping the vast majority of angry Republicans away from Romulus but a few of them got in.
__________________
"Clete Thomas always has a crazy look on his face. His eyes are just huge. He looks like at any minute he could snap and kill a guy..... or hit a baseball 422 feet" ...ScrubBeaterUpper
yeah but then who does Couga have to represent the other side in such a negative way? Your taking away his whole argument and his sole reason to exist.
Precisely. Couga is following Democratic talking points to the letter, attempting to make Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck the leaders and face of the GOP. That would be like saying Air America's Al Franken is a standard bearer of the Democratic Party - oh wait! Dammit - he actually IS!
He's not Speaker of the House. He's not in Congress. He's not the President.
He is the leader of the Republican party. The majority of congressional Republicans answer to him. The millions of people who listen to him are Republicans' constituents. Whether you like it or not, he represents your "side," and if Republican politicians think what he says is crazy, they should denounce him.
The same goes for Glenn Beck joking about poisoning the Speaker of the House on national TV.
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
It was in response to Pelosi implying those opposing UHC are Nazi's!!!!!!!!!!!
This didn't happen.
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
Honestly, I hope this is all schtick. I hope you aren't as dumb as you put on in these threads.
Logic fail.
Describing reality (the fact that protesters were carrying Nazi signs to the meetings) is not implying that anyone is a Nazi.
And furthermore, correcting the errant information in your posts is not "dumb."
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
but keep trying to pound that home! i'm sure you'll convince someone, someday..
Why don't Republican leaders denounce him, then?
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
Maybe we should elect him to the Senate like Al Frankin.
__________________
I hate Sydney Crosby
2010 Adopted Tiger -- DH (hopefully) Carlos Guillen
Previous adoptees: Gerald Laird (2009), Zach Miner (2008), Dusty Ryan (2007),
It was in response to Pelosi implying those opposing UHC are Nazi's!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't get what all the rage is about. The Speaker of the House calls one side nazis, no media coverage. A radio host calls the other nazis in direct response ("Mrs. Pelosi, you asked for this."), everybody gets bent out of shape... What the **** is with the double standard?
The mobs aren't scary to the Democrats. They are a godsend. They allow the Democrats to portray Republicans as a bunch of looney tunes who are fed lies and misinformation by AM radio and conspiracy theory websites. They make the GOP far less appealing for moderates and independents.
I don't understand how letting private insurers "take care of us" is any better. Why is it so appealing to you to be "taken care of" by large corporations? Is it any better than being "taken care of" by government? You're "taken care of" by dozens of organizations each day. The police department "takes care of you" by protecting you from crime. The US military "takes care of you" by protecting our borders. The water treatment people "take care of you" by making sure your drinking and bathing water is clean. The FDA "takes care of you" by ensuring your food is not diseased. Would we really be better off if nobody was "taking care of us"?
I think what you need to do is define what "take care of" really means. To me, it's just a mindless slogan that means absolutely nothing that conservative pundits use to make the thought of government doing anything look weak.
lol the gov't IS a large corporation. there is corruption going on in all of those organizations. and in some cases it's laughable how poor of a job they do to 'take care of me.' but yeah, health care is a different ballgame anyway.
why would they do it now? how long have rush and hannity been around? and you know it's true.. the dems and pres looove to keep pounding away that rush is the leader of the repub party.. YOU even keep doing it on their behalf! there's always going to be radio and tv entertainers who are conservatives because they represent a large part of the country. it doesn't mean they are leading the party.
Reader Sean Sorrentino reports on another swastika sighting:
I went to the Philadelphia Town Hall and enjoyed the opportunity to tell Benedict Arlen [Specter (R2D2., Pa.)] exactly how I felt about this unprecedented power grab. In the famous YouTube video of the Bible-waving lady used in the latest Democratic Party video you can see me just behind and to the left of the Bible lady [at 0:16]. I’m in a red shirt with a backpack and a ponytail. (Strange for a lifelong Republican, but even so . . .)
You can see that Barbara Boxer is correct about the well-dressed part as well. I changed out of my normal cargo pants and put on slacks. I wore leather shoes rather than my normal “urban hiker” boots. I took a shower and brushed my hair. I also left my gun, pepper spray and knife at home. (Pennsylvania is a right-to-carry state, and I have a license to carry.) I did all of these things out of respect for the process. Maybe it has something to do with the way I was raised, but I think that if you are going to “peaceably assemble,” you should at least dress nicely and take a shower out of respect for your fellow citizens. Who knew that was a bad thing?
There were in fact swastikas displayed on several of the signs outside. Signs were not permitted inside the hall. Apparently they were willing to let the “Tell the Government NO!” bumper stickers go, but my “ObamaCare is bad medicine” sign was not permitted. On the walkway in front of the building on Arch Street, there were some antiabortion/antieuthanasia protesters. There was at least one sign that protested “Obama’s Nazi healthcare” bill. Apparently the contention was that the bill would fund abortions and would lead to euthanasia of senior citizens, and that this was basically Nazi territory.
This, I believe, is where the swastikas were spotted. You can be the judge of whether or not this is effective or even reasonable debate. I personally don’t see how it helps to compare Obama to Nazis, but then I couldn’t see what the left was getting at with the whole Bush-Hitler thing either, so maybe my fascism meter is broken.
This doesn't reflect on all right-wingers. These guys can be dismissed as kooks, just the same as Limbaugh.. no need to defend it
Rush Limbaugh was so influential the Republicans nominated John McCain for president last year. He really is the puppet master of the Republican party, orchestrating all the moves of the Republicans straight out of his EIB headquarters in Palm Beach.
Anyways this is ridiculous, the guy with the Bill Maher quote running in his signature is complaining about Rush Limbaugh being a bomb thrower, at least make an attempt to be a slight bit less openly hypocritical.
She said she is seeing swastikas at rallies because there are plenty of them there, from protesters calling UHC/Obama Nazi
Desperately Seeking Swastikas - WSJ.com
This doesn't reflect on all right-wingers. These guys can be dismissed as kooks, just the same as Limbaugh.. no need to defend it
From your link.
Let’s review her words again: “I think they’re AstroTurf. You be the judge. They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care.” Who carries swastikas? Nazis. Pelosi did not complain that the protesters were comparing ObamaCare to Nazism; she insinuated that they are Nazis.
The most charitable thing that can be said about the speaker’s comment is that it was no better than the speech she was criticizing. She likened her political opponents to Nazis, just as a handful of them had done to their opponents.
But it is one thing for a citizen to say vile things about an elected official, quite something else for an elected official to say vile things about a citizen. As speaker of the House, Pelosi is not only the representative of her San Francisco constituents but a leader of her party and the leader of a branch of the federal government.
It is despicable for someone in her position to liken private citizens to Nazis. Nancy Pelosi owes America an apology.
There are people carrying swastikas in this meetings. Pelosi said so. There is no "imply" involved.
People are carrying swastikas because they are being extremely dramatic with regards to their hatred of current policy, so they liken that policy they are protesting to Nazism. Like I said before you could merely say they don't represent you and that Nazi references are bad rather than defending people that glibly pull out the Nazis card.
There were in fact swastikas displayed on several of the signs outside. Signs were not permitted inside the hall. Apparently they were willing to let the “Tell the Government NO!” bumper stickers go, but my “ObamaCare is bad medicine” sign was not permitted. On the walkway in front of the building on Arch Street, there were some antiabortion/antieuthanasia protesters. There was at least one sign that protested “Obama’s Nazi healthcare” bill. Apparently the contention was that the bill would fund abortions and would lead to euthanasia of senior citizens, and that this was basically Nazi territory.
This, I believe, is where the swastikas were spotted. You can be the judge of whether or not this is effective or even reasonable debate. I personally don’t see how it helps to compare Obama to Nazis, but then I couldn’t see what the left was getting at with the whole Bush-Hitler thing either, so maybe my fascism meter is broken.
A handful of protesters and speakers who have disrupted town halls hosted by Democratic members of Congress over the past week have sought to compare Obama administration policies to those of the Nazis by waving placards featuring swastikas or by making the connection during speeches. During a meeting in Denver co-hosted by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Thursday, for example, a toddler in a stroller was photographed holding a sign featuring a crossed-out swastika and the slogan: "Say No to Fascism!"
Now they're using my money to do their dirty work. Now we see SEIU and ACORN
activists in their unorganized matching T-Shirts trying to intimidate people attending Town Hall meetings who disagree with Obama's policy. I'd be damned if they'd intimidate me. Although they did beat one guy in St. Louis. I find it so funny that when people use the "Hitler card" when referring to Obama, everyone gets so upset and appalled.....but yet using Gestapo tactics to shut up citizens is supposed to be considered transparent, and uniting the Nation. Nice job Mr. O. These tactics won't last too long. There's too many of us and not enough of them. It's also quite funny that two union members yell racial slurs at a black man and then punch him in the face, and so far neither Obama, Carnahan or the SEIU has condemned the union thugs for “acting stupidly.”
You know how several people on this board say about Palin "I hope she runs"......well,
I hope Obama raises taxes. For the first time in my life I want the President to raise my taxes and raise them high! Please Mr. Dimwit, I mean President, I want to be a Patriot. Raise my taxes - go ahead....make my day.
I'm done rambling.
You know this is one thing I think we can agree on.
None of the ACORN or SIEU thug activities would be possible without the 129 B$ they got from the stimulus.
Their claims of "astroturf" are laughably hollow, coming as they do from the Party who invented and perfected it. Busing in paid MoveOn.org protesters to fight Social Security reform = grassroots community organizing; driving yourself to protest Democrat health proposal = fake, astroturf thuggery. That dog just won't hunt, and a majority of the American public knows it.
Astroturf was going on before moveon.
Also, moveon does not hide who they are and they are funded mostly by small individual donations not large industries or lobbiests. And they tell you who funded them.
In other words they fail the definition of astroturf.
Also, moveon does not hide who they are and they are funded mostly by small individual donations not large industries or lobbiests. And they tell you who funded them.
George Soros?
__________________
I hate Sydney Crosby
2010 Adopted Tiger -- DH (hopefully) Carlos Guillen
Previous adoptees: Gerald Laird (2009), Zach Miner (2008), Dusty Ryan (2007),
How else to explain what happened Thursday at a meeting held by Rep. Bob Inglis, R-S.C.? The best video of the meeting is available from anybodybutbob.com, an anti-Inglis site, and has been heavily edited, so it’s not clear what we don’t get to see. Still, it’s obvious that the congressman, who is a conservative, has his head much too squarely on his shoulders for his constituents' taste.
In the statement that has gotten the most attention, Inglis says of Glenn Beck, “Turn that television off when he comes on. Let me tell you why. You want to know why? He’s trading on fear.” The crowd is not pleased, and the whole moment brings back memories of earlier this year when Republicans kept having to apologize to Rush Limbaugh.
But it’s not just the Beck exchange that deserves attention. The whole video is amazing. There’s a near-constant stream of patter from the crowd, heckling Inglis: “Hey Bob!” “Pay attention!” “Your boss is talking, Bob!” “Step it up, Inglis!”
And it seems like the more acute a questioner’s paranoia, the more eager the crowd’s support. The video begins with a woman saying she's afraid of President Obama and the congressman asking why -- in response, the audience erupts with people calling the president a socialist. “You should be afraid of Obama!” one says.
Later, a woman named Rose asks about being forced to accept vaccinations, and the crowd applauds. You can hear a shout about “martial law!” One man, seemingly with the approval of his peers, describes how everyone he knows is talking about revolution. Apparently there’s even widespread concern about the involvement of the federal government in the regulation of light-bulb efficiency. “Where in the Constitution does Congress decide our light-bulb, like our toilet and everything else? And you voted for it.” (That last bit is true.)
The thing kind of speaks for itself. Inglis has tacked toward the center in recent years, but he hasn't exactly become Dennis Kucinich. When Mitt Romney, a Mormon, was running for president, Inglis told him, “You cannot say, ‘I am a Christian, just like you.’”
If this guy is a sell-out Constitution-violating secular statist to a significant portion of the party base -- it’s hard to know how representative this crowd really is -- then the GOP is heading to some strange places.
Rush Limbaugh was so influential the Republicans nominated John McCain for president last year. He really is the puppet master of the Republican party, orchestrating all the moves of the Republicans straight out of his EIB headquarters in Palm Beach.
Anyways this is ridiculous, the guy with the Bill Maher quote running in his signature is complaining about Rush Limbaugh being a bomb thrower, at least make an attempt to be a slight bit less openly hypocritical.
So who is the leader of the GOP? Boner? Mcain? Who?
If he's a small individual donor, it's totally true.
__________________
I hate Sydney Crosby
2010 Adopted Tiger -- DH (hopefully) Carlos Guillen
Previous adoptees: Gerald Laird (2009), Zach Miner (2008), Dusty Ryan (2007),
Also, moveon does not hide who they are and they are funded mostly by small individual donations not large industries or lobbiests. And they tell you who funded them.
While moveon.org does get lots of donations from it's members, average donation of $50, it is like any other organization - it's going to be steered by the people that do the heaviest donating, in this case:
Linda Pritzker has donated at least US$4,000,000.
George Soros has donated at least US$1,460,000.
Peter B. Lewis has donated at least US$500,000.
Also, moveon does not hide who they are and they are funded mostly by small individual donations not large industries or lobbiests. And they tell you who funded them.
In other words they fail the definition of astroturf.
MoveOn.org is the very definition of astroturf. Astroturf, in the political world, means fake grass roots. When you have an organization that is funded primarily by multi-billionaire George Soros busing in and paying thousands of people hundreds of miles from their home districts to hold up professionally printed protest signs and shout down conservatives, that is astroturf. That's what the Soros funded MoveOn.org did in 2005.
There is no proof that that is happening today with the healthcare town hall protesters, btw. But even if there was, the left would have no leg to stand on to cry about it, because the left does it more often and with far wealthier and more politically connected organizations. The left invented astroturf. The left perfected astroturf. Astroturfers can not complain about astroturf being used against them. Especially when it likely isn't. A Community Organizer can't complain when communities organize against him.
MoveOn.org is the very definition of astroturf. Astroturf, in the political world, means fake grass roots. When you have an organization that is funded primarily by multi-billionaire George Soros busing in and paying thousands of people hundreds of miles from their home districts to hold up professionally printed protest signs and shout down conservatives, that is astroturf. That's what the Soros funded MoveOn.org did in 2005.
There is no proof that that is happening today with the healthcare town hall protesters, btw. But even if there was, the left would have no leg to stand on to cry about it, because the left does it more often and with far wealthier and more politically connected organizations. The left invented astroturf. The left perfected astroturf. Astroturfers can not complain about astroturf being used against them. Especially when it likely isn't. A Community Organizer can't complain when communities organize against him.
You're dramatically wrong. Move On is fueled mostly by volunteers, and is funded just as much by small donations as it is big donors. Move On has tens of thousands of volunteers around the country that have been with the organization for years. They are not just a bunch of spontaneous people whipped up into a frenzy by a campaign of cheap scare tactics, lies, and misinformation like the people shouting about some BS they read in a chain e-mail produced by one of these Astroturf conservative organizations at these town halls.
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
I generally find it hard to determine why you post on this forum. You don't read what anyone posts on here. You invent things that you claim other people said, and then you argue with your own inventions. It's like you're debating yourself. You get pretty snippy with yourself fairly often, though. Maybe you need to take it easy.
You fit the mold of the fake conservative "macho man" perfectly. You're admittedly not interested in rational debate. You take any little snippet you can from anything your political opposition says and you twist it around into something that victimizes yourself. You're just interested in "shouting people down" to make yourself feel big.
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
I generally find it hard to determine why you post on this forum. You don't read what anyone posts on here. You invent things that you claim other people said, and then you argue with your own inventions. It's like you're debating yourself. You get pretty snippy with yourself fairly often, though. Maybe you need to take it easy.
You fit the mold of the fake conservative "macho man" perfectly. You're admittedly not interested in rational debate. You take any little snippet you can from anything your political opposition says and you twist it around into something that victimizes yourself. You're just interested in "shouting people down" to make yourself feel big.
These guys must have a playbook. Whenever challenged - make it about the person challenging them and attack attack attack. Not what anyone says, but attack personally. This is a pattern with a few posters out here. Then they draw you into the personal battles, and then backpeddle to try and claim the high ground. I count the word "You/Your/yourself/You're" used 19 times in just 2 paragraphs. See? The attempt is to make the other person the topic, and not the issues.
I generally find it hard to determine why you post on this forum. You don't read what anyone posts on here. You invent things that you claim other people said, and then you argue with your own inventions. It's like you're debating yourself. You get pretty snippy with yourself fairly often, though. Maybe you need to take it easy.
You fit the mold of the fake conservative "macho man" perfectly. You're admittedly not interested in rational debate. You take any little snippet you can from anything your political opposition says and you twist it around into something that victimizes yourself. You're just interested in "shouting people down" to make yourself feel big.
he's having fun
he's got his perspective and voices it and will fly off the handle at a moments notice BUT will never expect anybody to take him too seriously
i actually find it refreshing - he's one of the few posters who will say something outrageous and then say "never mind - i was drinking - or - i was having a bad day" - well - ok - this is part of the bar and grill - go for it
so yeah - he is interested in shouting people down sometimes - but i don't' remember him denying it - its recreation - and i find that oddly refreshing - maybe john is right and i need to find a therapist
I generally find it hard to determine why you post on this forum. You don't read what anyone posts on here. You invent things that you claim other people said, and then you argue with your own inventions. It's like you're debating yourself. You get pretty snippy with yourself fairly often, though. Maybe you need to take it easy.
You fit the mold of the fake conservative "macho man" perfectly. You're admittedly not interested in rational debate. You take any little snippet you can from anything your political opposition says and you twist it around into something that victimizes yourself. You're just interested in "shouting people down" to make yourself feel big.
I generally find it hard to determine why you post on this forum. You don't read what anyone posts on here. You invent things that you claim other people said, and then you argue with your own inventions. It's like you're debating yourself. You get pretty snippy with yourself fairly often, though. Maybe you need to take it easy.
You fit the mold of the fake liberal "macho man" perfectly. You're not interested in rational debate. You take any little snippet you can from anything your political opposition says and you twist it around into something that victimizes yourself. You're just interested in "shouting people down" to make yourself feel big.
he's got his perspective and voices it and will fly off the handle at a moments notice BUT will never expect anybody to take him too seriously
i actually find it refreshing - he's one of the few posters who will say something outrageous and then say "never mind - i was drinking - or - i was having a bad day" - well - ok - this is part of the bar and grill - go for it
so yeah - he is interested in shouting people down sometimes - but i don't' remember him denying it - its recreation - and i find that oddly refreshing - maybe john is right and i need to find a therapist
I'd believe that if 85% of his posts weren't incendiary. I know he's just being a punk on here, and I remember him admitting to such. But he goes beyond that pretty often and tries to get under people's skin. Everyone does that on here, but for him, it's pretty much the ONLY thing he does.
I'm sure I take politics too seriously for him to take me seriously, but I do think that rational leadership is what leads any country in the right direction -- and in a democracy, rational debate and analysis of policy amongst people is the first step towards electing that sort of leader. I see hardly any attempt from him to engage in this sort of discussion.
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
I generally find it hard to determine why you post on this forum. You don't read what anyone posts on here. You invent things that you claim other people said, and then you argue with your own inventions. It's like you're debating yourself. You get pretty snippy with yourself fairly often, though. Maybe you need to take it easy.
You fit the mold of the fake liberal "macho man" perfectly. You're not interested in rational debate. You take any little snippet you can from anything your political opposition says and you twist it around into something that victimizes yourself. You're just interested in "shouting people down" to make yourself feel big.
Nah.
I don't shout people down unless they start personally attacking others.
Despite all the heated rhetoric on here, I do see a difference in the way the two sides are going about debate. There's nothing wrong with protesting or voicing your opinion as loud as and as obnoxiously as you want. I think both sides do that. I do think that there's a MAJOR difference between the two parties, though.
Republicans tend to use as the basis for their arguments absolutist, ideological premises, such as "government is evil," "government spending is always bad," "taxes should be completely abolished" "Democrats are socialists," etc. Platitudes such as "government spending is always bad" are purely statements of ideological extremists. It leaves no room for government spending to ever be good. Liberals, of course, can be seen making all the same arguments, only replace "government" with "large corporations."
The difference comes in between the two parties. Leaders of the Republican Party engage in this rhetoric routinely and often. They send out memos from Frank Luntz encouraging their elected officials to use this kind of rhetoric. And the leading conservative voices take pride in the amount of times they mutter the phrase "big government is evil."
Elected Democrats don't do this. They don't demonize corporations and say they are always bad. Their strategy is never to abolish all corporations in favor of government. They call for a balance between government and the free market. They are open to ideas of both the free market and government co-existing in one country, and their policies reflect that. That is a much more pragmatic and moderate intellectual approach to solving problems.
For Republicans, the solution is always to eliminate government. There's no thought process put into their recommended solution. That's their only solution to every problem. They proudly admit this. There's never any other solution that might work. They never use any facts, figures, or logical arguments to back it up. They already know their answer before they have even done any analysis. Even if elimination of government regulation causes disaster like it did with our financial crisis, their solution is to blame it on the government, and advocate for even more elimination of government. Even when our private healthcare system costs twice as much per person as government-run systems do in other developed countries, they absurdly make the claim that it's government healthcare that's going to cost a lot.
This, to me, is the most clear distinction between blind ideology and a rational centrism. Rational centrists have an open mind, and freely admit that stringent ideologies often fail to produce an intelligent solution most of the time. They think that in some cases, government works better at solving problems than private enterprise, and in some cases, private enterprise works better than government. When trying to tackle a problem, they examine the merits and drawbacks of both possible solutions.
Self-proclaimed "conservatives" on this board -- the same ones who most often use the typical ideologically extreme conservative platitudes mentioned above -- love to tell me how I am sooo far to the left, and that I am a zealot of a liberal ideology. But I have NEVER on here advocated that only government can solve our problems, as they advocate that only the free market can solve our problems. I, and other "liberals" on here advocate for a healthy, rational balance between government and the free market. The Democratic Party is similar in their legislative pursuits. Industry and business are a gigantic donor to and constituency of the Democratic Party. They are not even close to being socialists. The thought that anyone could make that assertion and expect anyone to take them seriously is absurd. There are a few people in this country that actually are socialists and argue that all large business and free enterprise should be abolished. They make up, at most, 2-3% of the population, and the majority of them are members of the green party or some socialist party. They are ideologically extreme, and they fail to have an open mind as to what method might solve society's problems. Then, at the other ideological extreme, you have conservatives, that make up about 30% of the population, and over half of the Republican Party. These are people who believe that government and taxation is never the answer, in any amount. Elected Republican officials work to advance this ideology at the expense of their constituency actually opening their mind and thinking about problems independently. That's why we see a plan to simply give people the option of having government healthcare if they so choose it demonized as "communist" and "killing old people" and "death panels." The ideological right will tolerate no deviation from their rigid philosophy.
There is a big difference between the Democratic and Republican parties, and there is a huge difference between the rhetoric that each side uses to advance their cause. It is not the case that each side is equally ideological. And it is not the case that I am an ideological liberal. If I demonize people on here, it's because people are using ideology instead of rationality to advance their cause. I don't hate conservatives, nor do I think conservative ideas can never work. In fact, I have routinely stood up for the free market here, and acknowledged it's huge part in getting us to where we are today. I just think it should be regulated where it is necessary, and I do think it is a far from perfect system. That's not liberalism, nor is it ideological extremism. I demonize "conservatives" because they don't use facts to support their side of things -- they use platitudes that have no rational value, such as "government is evil" and "taxes mean socialism." Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to their own facts. Furthermore, no one is entitled to use a blanket ideology in place of facts, and have their point of view equally respected. So next time you accuse me of being "far left," think about that.
With regard to the disruptors at the town halls, I haven't seen a single person on here or anywhere, say that they don't have a right to protest or voice their opinion. The problem is, their goal is not to have an open discussion. Their goal is to yell and shout and scream, and drown out a reality-based discussion at venues that are supposed to provide the public a service, and call anyone that opposes them or corrects them a "liar." This is most definitely un-American. Liberals try to do this too, but rarely are they encouraged to do so by such influential leaders of the movement, including elected representatives. A good chunk of Congressional Republicans are directly encouraging the birther movement. How many elected Democrats encouraged the "Bush was behind 9/11" movement, and drafted up legislation to investigate whether this was true? How many elected Democrats openly called Bush a "fascist" while he was President?
I hope conservatives can go back to supporting conservative philosophy with rationality and logic. It would be good for this country. Many conservatives are very smart people, and it's a shame that they are encouraged not to think about politics by their leaders. The ideological, Karl Rove-style nonsense they routinely spout these days only hurts their cause. I also hope that they keep an open mind, and realize that one singular ideology is never always a solution to every problem. I hope they realize that both the free market and America itself have flaws -- but despite those flaws, each are generally a good thing.
__________________
"Governing doesn’t disappear when government shrinks; instead corporations come to govern your life — like HMO’s, oil companies, drug companies, agribusiness, and so on, with accountability only to maximizing profit, not to public needs." - George Lakoff
2007 AAT: Lester Oliveros
2008-2010 AAT: Francisco Martinez
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