Henry Louis Gates Arrest Reports

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Dude, youtube Dr. Gates. He has done countless interviews in which he has expressed his belief that Sgt. Crowley was acting as a rogue cop arresting Gates for the sole reason of being black. For Chrissakes, he is still *considering legal action against Crowley.


YouTube - Henry Louis Gates: James Crowley Is "A Rogue Policeman"

YouTube - CNN Watch: Telling Only Henry Louis Gates' Version 7/22/09

Dude, you're not reading what I wrote. I never said that he didn't call Crowley a rogue cop. All I said was that he didn't feel it was racial profiling when he was arrested. He felt it was profiling from the initial contact with the officer, BEFORE he was arrested. So the arrest was not the catalyst for his accusations, just the result.

I don't even know what you thought I was trying to say.

[MrDeeds]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

Dude, you're not reading what I wrote. I never said that he didn't call Crowley a rogue cop. All I said was that he didn't feel it was racial profiling when he was arrested. He felt it was profiling from the initial contact with the officer, BEFORE he was arrested. So the arrest was not the catalyst for his accusations, just the result.

I don't even know what you thought I was trying to say.

My appologies for misreading your post. I understand what you meant after reading your clarification.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Several of the officers were at the scene, including the black officer who spoke first in the youtube. No Harvard colleagues were at the scene.

My God, you just read anything into it you want, don't you? I said "IF." I never once said Gates' colleagues were there. It's called a hypothetical situation.

And okay, so at least one officer in the video was there. Was the female officer Crowely hugged there? Is it possible that they are backing him up even though they didn't witness the event? Yes? Now apply that hypothetical to Harvard colleagues... pretend they were standing on the porch listening. Would a video interview of those hypothetical (yes, I know, not real) colleagues and some other colleagues that weren't there backing up Gates make you change your opinion on this incident?

I would bet not. THAT'S my point. Not that his colleagues were there.

[billms]

Look at that. They put the cuffs on in front. What does he have to complain about? Whiner.

[MrDeeds]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

My God, you just read anything into it you want, don't you? I said "IF." I never once said Gates' colleagues were there. It's called a hypothetical situation.

And okay, so at least one officer in the video was there. Was the female officer Crowely hugged there? Is it possible that they are backing him up even though they didn't witness the event? Yes? Now apply that hypothetical to Harvard colleagues... pretend they were standing on the porch listening. Would a video interview of those hypothetical (yes, I know, not real) colleagues and some other colleagues that weren't there backing up Gates make you change your opinion on this incident?

I would bet not. THAT'S my point. Not that his colleagues were there.

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

I think if there were a video going around of CNN interviewing Gates' colleagues at Harvard expressing unwavering support for his behavior, it would do little to sway the opinion of those who think he's entirely at fault.

I am not misreading you. You did not say that "if the colleagues were there" in your post. Of course, if Harvard colleagues had witnessed the episode such a video would carry importance, but they didn't. That's why the video of the fellow officers is relevant. Some of them were at the scene.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

I am not misreading you. You did not say that "if the colleagues were there" in your post. Of course, if Harvard colleagues had witnessed the episode such a video would carry importance, but they didn't. That's why the video of the fellow officers is relevant. Some of them were at the scene.

And some were not. I have no problem with your opinion of the importance of the interview. I just don't want the hypothetical mixed with the actual.

Are you indicating that if such a video existed (Harvard colleagues interviewed in support of Gates), that you'd be likely to let it influence your opinion about this incident? Or would it be a non-factor in crafting your opinion?

[sub rosa]

Originally Posted by DGTigers

Does that make all cops bad? If so, I remember reading about a professor murdering someone once, we should lock Gates up for good before he does the same. I don't remember anyone arguing that all cops were innocent of everything. Crowley just isn't guilty of being a racist. The next guy might be.

i think you missed my point. maybe it wasn't made very well. my youtube moment was in response to the one that was posted earlier - where all the cops are standing up for crowley. the point i'm trying to make is that cops don't always put in their police reports "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and they sometimes feel comfortable taking liberties with people, especially when no one is looking - because they know their buddies on the force will take their side no matter what.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by sub rosa

the point i'm trying to make is that cops don't always put in their police reports "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and they sometimes feel comfortable taking liberties with people, especially when no one is looking - because they know their buddies on the force will take their side no matter what.

That's what I alluded to earlier. Just because black cops back up white cops amid charges of racial profiling doesn't mean that the charges couldn't possibly be true. There's nothing to say that black cops consider themselves black before they consider themselves cops. It might be more important to them to be a cop than black.

It's why you sometimes hear of blacks being pulled over for DWB, even when the cop is black. There may be a pressure to fit into the culture of that police department, and for a black cop to remain a cop, they might be required to comply with that system (i.e. one that promotes racial profling).

(Note: I'm not saying Cambridge is one of those departments.)

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by sub rosa

i think you missed my point. maybe it wasn't made very well. my youtube moment was in response to the one that was posted earlier - where all the cops are standing up for crowley. the point i'm trying to make is that cops don't always put in their police reports "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and they sometimes feel comfortable taking liberties with people, especially when no one is looking - because they know their buddies on the force will take their side no matter what.

I understand what you're saying, but you have to be careful. Your can't just automatically dismiss cops sides because "their buddies on the force will take their side no matter what," because that's one of those arguments to which there's really no response, and it really transcends and overbears the discussion.

It's analogous to a conservative being against universal health care because "I don't trust the government to run anything well." If that's their belief, there's really no point discussing cutting costs, a public option, etc. because that belief trumps everything.

BTW, as an aside, I keep hearing people talk about this not being a case of racism, but still being a 'teaching moment' about racism. But nobody says what that lesson is. What are we supposed to learn about racism from an incident that wasn't? Because I don't see any good lessons yet.

[sub rosa]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

I understand what you're saying, but you have to be careful. Your can't just automatically dismiss cops sides because "their buddies on the force will take their side no matter what," because that's one of those arguments to which there's really no response, and it really transcends and overbears the discussion.

you make an excellent point and i wholeheartedly agree. i raise the issue of the "blue code" only in response to the suggestion made earlier by someone that it was must see tv to watch a clip of cops taking crowley's side - even some who were there.

[SweetLou]

How in the hell do you think a guy wearing THAT shirt is a suspect.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by SweetLou

How in the hell do you think a guy wearing THAT shirt is a suspect.

How many Cambridge policemen does it take to arrest one 58 year old 150 pound Harvard professor? It's a good thing they were there to keep him from swearing, who knows what might have happened, someone might have shut their doors. Heavens to Betsy, we can't have that sort of thing in Cambridge.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by SweetLou

Does anybody know who took that picture, by the way? It would have been pretty early in the incident to get a news photog there, wouldn't it? Especially not knowing how this thing would blow up.

Neighbor with a cell phone?

[Ingefanclub]

This is really starting to seem like Gates set this up.
He already had a breakin at his home, so people were on the lookout for breakins in the neighborhood. Then in broad daylight he tries to wedge his way into his home.

That would frighten me to try for fear of a cop sticking a gun in my face as I tried to wedge into my own home. The cop shows up and asks Gates onto his porch and Gates immedietly says "Why because I'm a black man in America?"

He is an annoying push the buttons guy. The guy who is always angry and bitching about someone.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by Ingefanclub

This is really starting to seem like Gates set this up.
He already had a breakin at his home, so people were on the lookout for breakins in the neighborhood. Then in broad daylight he tries to wedge his way into his home.

That would frighten me to try for fear of a cop sticking a gun in my face as I tried to wedge into my own home. The cop shows up and asks Gates onto his porch and Gates immedietly says "Why because I'm a black man in America?"

He is an annoying push the buttons guy. The guy who is always angry and bitching about someone.

Are you serious?

[Buddha]

Here's what we can all learn from this incident: when a police officer asks you to step outside your house (even onto your porch), it's so he can arrest you. NEVER step outside your house, and never let them into your house without a warrant.

Man, you'd think Gates would have learned that by now. Then again, he's probably been busy studying and reading history books instead of watching Law & Order.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by Ingefanclub

This is really starting to seem like Gates set this up.
He already had a breakin at his home, so people were on the lookout for breakins in the neighborhood. Then in broad daylight he tries to wedge his way into his home.

That would frighten me to try for fear of a cop sticking a gun in my face as I tried to wedge into my own home. The cop shows up and asks Gates onto his porch and Gates immedietly says "Why because I'm a black man in America?"

He is an annoying push the buttons guy. The guy who is always angry and bitching about someone.

Wow.

Just... wow.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

Does anybody know who took that picture, by the way? It would have been pretty early in the incident to get a news photog there, wouldn't it? Especially not knowing how this thing would blow up.

Neighbor with a cell phone?

I wondered too.

He also looks like he's not fully outside... w/ cuffs on.

[MrDeeds]

Originally Posted by Buddha

How many Cambridge policemen does it take to arrest one 58 year old 150 pound Harvard professor? It's a good thing they were there to keep him from swearing, who knows what might have happened, someone might have shut their doors. Heavens to Betsy, we can't have that sort of thing in Cambridge.

Dr. Gates house had been broken into before, and there had been a series of break in's in that particular neighborhood.

The cops had no way of knowing how many suspects their might be. They didn't know if the suspects might be armed. etc. etc.

Hence, several squad cars were called to the scene.

[MrDeeds]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Here's what we can all learn from this incident: when a police officer asks you to step outside your house (even onto your porch), it's so he can arrest you.

hahahahahaha

Thanks for teaching us all.

[billms]

Are you a police man or just speculating? Just wondering... We all do the latter...

[MrDeeds]

Originally Posted by billms

Are you a police man or just speculating? Just wondering... We all do the latter...

Just pointing out the obvious reason as to why so many cops were on the scene.

[Ingefanclub]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Here's what we can all learn from this incident: when a police officer asks you to step outside your house (even onto your porch), it's so he can arrest you. NEVER step outside your house, and never let them into your house without a warrant.

Man, you'd think Gates would have learned that by now. Then again, he's probably been busy studying and reading history books instead of watching Law & Order.

I stepped outside my apartment in an incident I described earlier and was not arrested. Anyhow I think both parties were at fault in this case. I just believe Gates was the worse offender.

And yes I am serious because it sounds like when the cops knocked on Gates door and asked him to come out he hollered through the door "Why because I am a black man in America?" Maybe I am wrong like Obama and getting the story wrong but it was as if Gates had his lines prepared in advance. The cop wouldn't even know Gates was black until he got inside the house so why was Gates shouting nonsense about his color?

Okay I read the story and it looks like Gates shouted this after. I have a dream that Crowley and Gates can have a beer together hand in hand at the table and be brothers!

[Chevycola]

Originally Posted by billms

I made a statement about parks - and by extension mandela. Do you disagree? Because I think it is relevant to some of the arguments put forth here. That is a far cry from equating gates with them.

In a thread about what is America's biggest current race topic, you inserted 2 of the most famous blacks that have been jailed in history. Why? They have nothing in common with Gates, other than race. Not from the reasons they were arrested - to the fact that the charges against Gates were immediatley dropped. Gates' arrest won't lead to anything, let alone the reform of 2 country's racial political policies. It would seem to me you brought them up to specifically fan racial flames. If not - tell us why you think they are relevent to bring up in this conversation.

[SweetLou]

Originally Posted by Ingefanclub

And yes I am serious because it sounds like when the cops knocked on Gates door and asked him to come out he hollered through the door "Why because I am a black man in America?" Maybe I am wrong like Obama and getting the story wrong but it was as if Gates had his lines prepared in advance. The cop wouldn't even know Gates was black until he got inside the house so why was Gates shouting nonsense about his color?

I think every black person in Massachusetts has that line prepared.

[Chevycola]

Hey you - black officer - Godddammit - get out of the picture - you are ruining my claims of racism you big dummy!!!!

[billms]

Originally Posted by Chevycola

In a thread about what is America's biggest current race topic, you inserted 2 of the most famous blacks that have been jailed in history. Why? They have nothing in common with Gates, other than race. Not from the reasons they were arrested - to the fact that the charges against Gates were immediatley dropped. Gates' arrest won't lead to anything, let alone the reform of 2 country's racial political policies. It would seem to me you brought them up to specifically fan racial flames. If not - tell us why you think they are relevent to bring up in this conversation.

Actually they do have a lot to do with gates. They got arrested in situations where if they had shutup an done what the authorities told them to do things would have gone easier on them. People have put forward that the same is true of gates's situation (I certainly believe it is) and I provided two good examples of why this can be the *wrong* strategy, morally speaking.

But I already said that and you didn't get it so I guess this message is kind of pointless.

How, pray tell, could I possibly be "fanning racial flames" by bringing them up? That makes no sense.

[Chevycola]

Originally Posted by billms

Actually they do have a lot to do with gates. They got arrested in situations where if they had shutup an done what the authorities told them to do things would have gone easier on them. People have put forward that the same is true of gates's situation (I certainly believe it is) and I provided two good examples of why this can be the *wrong* strategy, morally speaking.

But I already said that and you didn't get it so I guess this message is kind of pointless.

How, pray tell, could I possibly be "fanning racial flames" by bringing them up? That makes no sense.

Fanning racail flames by bringing up 2 famous black people who were arrested in a thread about another black man who was arrested. The comparision is being made - and you had to know it would be. However, Mandela and Parks were deliberately fighting for freedom for not only themselves, but for an entire group of oppressed people. Gates is doing no such thing. Both of your examples delieberately set out to get arrested. Gates (hopefully) did no such thing. He was just being a loudmouthed jerk playing the "I"m Robert Gates!" card. The "why" here with these 2 arrests negates bringing up Parks and Manella, otherwise you could bring up every person that's ever been arrested that meets those qualifications. But you don't. You bring up 2 blacks from history and their historical stands against racism. Again - that's not what this is/was about.

If you disagree - then I guess we disagree. However, I don't think it's pointless to question your reasons for bringing up Rosa Parks and Nelson Mandela in a topic about Professor Gates. I mean, what's next? Are you going to bring up 2 of the worst cops in history to balance your historical references to 2 of the bravest social disobediant blacks in history? Then you'd really be able to contrast your take on this to an extreme.

[billms]

This is hardly a message board of racial outrage and anger. The idea that any flames exist to be fanned is silly.

Gates is not equal to parks or mandela. But parks and mandela are not equal to each other. Each is, in fact, a distinct individual. In the specific area I mentioned they do however share useful traits.

The fact is that I don't happen to have a list of every person thats ever been arrested that meets those qualifications. I doubt you or anybody else does either. So that "point" is kinda dumb, huh?

Lets back up a bit. The suggestion has been put out that Gates, regardless of if he was right or wrong, was a damn fool for not shutting up. Things would have gone easier for him if he had. Do you agree with that? (I do). Do you think we, as a society, should tolerate that sort of state of affairs? (I don't).

[Chevycola]

Originally Posted by billms

This is hardly a message board of racial outrage and anger. The idea that any flames exist to be fanned is silly.

Gates is not equal to parks or mandela. But parks and mandela are not equal to each other. Each is, in fact, a distinct individual. In the specific area I mentioned they do however share useful traits.

The fact is that I don't happen to have a list of every person thats ever been arrested that meets those qualifications. I doubt you or anybody else does either. So that "point" is kinda dumb, huh?

Lets back up a bit. The suggestion has been put out that Gates, regardless of if he was right or wrong, was a damn fool for not shutting up. Things would have gone easier for him if he had. Do you agree with that? (I do). Do you think we, as a society, should tolerate that sort of state of affairs? (I don't).

I would answer your questions, but since you think I'm silly, dumb and pointless, why bother?

But I will say that I never said this was a board of racial outrage. What I did say was that this was a thread about what is America's biggest current race topic. I also said It would seem to me you brought them up to specifically fan racial flames. If not - tell us why you think they are relevent to bring up in this conversation. I didn't say you were racist or anything. I said it seems - andn then offered you teh opportunity to retort. You then asked how could you be fannign the flames - and I answered. In the course of your responses - i've become pointless, silly and dumb. I think you need to work on your people skills.

Another quick point - you bring up Mandela and Parks in the same topic as Gates because they didn't shut up. This apparently is enough to warrent a comparison. Using that thin criteria, I could bring up other famous black me who have been arrested - such as O.J. Simpson and Michael Jackson. Hey - both black men who were arrested and aquitted. Neither was convicted (well, OJ was in round 2), just like Gates. But I'll try to be more discriminating in my examples than you have been.

[eastside billee]

Ok, it's been a number of days now. Tons of reports, tons of crap.

I've given some thought to this. A little common sense on both parties parts would've avoided a bad situation. Really, honestly - did that cop think a crippled old man who claims to be a professor was robbing a house? Logically speaking, that would not be the situation. A small degree of thought might've suggested what Gates said was true.

On the other hand, being combative, refusing to give I.D. and name calling never works when you're dealing with a cop, be it black, white or whatever.

Two ships crashing in the night. So sad it has come down to all this.

[billms]

Originally Posted by Chevycola

I would answer your questions, but since you think I'm silly, dumb and pointless, why bother?

But I will say that I never said this was a board of racial outrage. What I did say was that this was a thread about what is America's biggest current race topic. I also said It would seem to me you brought them up to specifically fan racial flames. If not - tell us why you think they are relevent to bring up in this conversation. I didn't say you were racist or anything. I said it seems - andn then offered you teh opportunity to retort. You then asked how could you be fannign the flames - and I answered. In the course of your responses - i've become pointless, silly and dumb. I think you need to work on your people skills.

Another quick point - you bring up Mandela and Parks in the same topic as Gates because they didn't shut up. This apparently is enough to warrent a comparison. Using that thin criteria, I could bring up other famous black me who have been arrested - such as O.J. Simpson and Michael Jackson. Hey - both black men who were arrested and aquitted. Neither was convicted (well, OJ was in round 2), just like Gates. But I'll try to be more discriminating in my examples than you have been.

I called the ideas you expressed in that post those things - not you. Your perspective is a bit askew.

So, this is not a board of racial out rage. Have you ever seen it here? I haven't. In the whole time I've been here I've never seen any flames of racism. The issue has come up but not in some heated manner that polarized people.

Thus, yes, the idea that anybody would fan flames that don't exist is silly.

You then say

If not - tell us why you think they are relevent to bring up in this conversation.

I have. At least twice. You don't like it or agree with it. I understand that. I fail to see how you can't understand that I've answered that question multiple times. But thats a burden I'll have to carry.

Feel free to bring up OJ. If I have a question about why you think he is relevent I'll ask it. And when you answer I'll listen.

But I won't because OJ would be a dumb comparision - and fortunately you didn't really bring him up. Because otherwise I'd have to point out that I think the comparison is dumb and then you would confuse your self with your opinions again and conversation would deteriorate.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by billms

So, this is not a board of racial out rage. Have you ever seen it here? I haven't. In the whole time I've been here I've never seen any flames of racism. The issue has come up but not in some heated manner that polarized people.

[billms]

what is that from?

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Some of the things I've read on this page are just plain whack.

[billms]

fo shizzle

[Chevycola]

Originally Posted by billms

I called the ideas you expressed in that post those things - not you. Your perspective is a bit askew.

So, this is not a board of racial out rage. Have you ever seen it here? I haven't. In the whole time I've been here I've never seen any flames of racism. The issue has come up but not in some heated manner that polarized people.

Thus, yes, the idea that anybody would fan flames that don't exist is silly.

You then say

I have. At least twice. You don't like it or agree with it. I understand that. I fail to see how you can't understand that I've answered that question multiple times. But thats a burden I'll have to carry.

Feel free to bring up OJ. If I have a question about why you think he is relevent I'll ask it. And when you answer I'll listen.

But I won't because OJ would be a dumb comparision - and fortunately you didn't really bring him up. Because otherwise I'd have to point out that I think the comparison is dumb and then you would confuse your self with your opinions again and conversation would deteriorate.

Whatever. I don't think you need to be even calling opinions dumb, silly, their points are pointless. It just gets emotions flowing. I've done it sometimes and it never moves disucssions forwards when i do. Do you talk that way to people in everyday face to face conversations?? Or just here on possting boards? If calling things dumb is your thing, maybe you should invest in a thesaurus. theres got to be a better way to make your point. anyway, i let you know ho w i feel about it. i mostly lurk out here - but it seems like you want to get under peoles skin here most of thei time in additon to discuiing topics.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Here's what we can all learn from this incident: when a police officer asks you to step outside your house (even onto your porch), it's so he can arrest you. NEVER step outside your house, and never let them into your house without a warrant.

Man, you'd think Gates would have learned that by now. Then again, he's probably been busy studying and reading history books instead of watching Law & Order.

No. The lesson is comply with the lawful request of a police officer for proper identification; be polite; don't act erratically; and don't make comments about the officer's mother.

[Mark The Shark]

Originally Posted by billms

I made a statement about parks - and by extension mandela. Do you disagree? Because I think it is relevant to some of the arguments put forth here. That is a far cry from equating gates with them.

Parks and Mandela deliberately disobeyed the law in order to challenge a law they thought unjust.

Gates deliberately disobeyed a lawful order from a police officer because he didn't want to ID with his address -- i.e., "don't you know who I am."

This comparison is absurd.

[sub rosa]

here we go again... it depends on who you believe. gates says it escalated after he already showed id proving he was a resident of the house. crowley says it escalated right from the jump.