Henry Louis Gates Arrest Reports

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Tell that to the dead police officer at the Holocaust Museum who was 6'6", 280 pounds and killed by an 88 year old man. Violent crimes by seniors in this country are escalating. Erratic behavior, as Gates' behavior was described by the BLACK officer on the scene, needs to be addressed. We get it - you think the officer shouldn't have arrested him. However, it was his call, it was backed up by the black office on site, and is not a reason for Obama to turn this into what he did - a NATIONAL race issue which is further dividing, not uniting, people at large.

Gates had no gun and was no threat to anyone.

He was arrested because the cop got tired of listening to Gates yell at him. It was silly. Any comparison to some guy shooting up the Holocaust museum is meaningless.

If he were an old man brandishing a weapon? Sure, that's different. But Gates was no threat to anyone.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Buddha

But Gates was no threat to anyone.

No? Yelling "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO A BLACK MAN IN AN AMERICA" in an area that, per bill,

Originally Posted by billms

The cop was in his house and he felt threatened. And there is a *long* history of racism from the cops in the area.

is not an attempt to incite a riot?

C'mon.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Obstruct justice, DISTURB THE PEACE, and attempt to incite a riot.

Got it now Einsteins?

I understand the second one. What would be the reasoning behind nos. 1 and 3?

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

I understand the second one. What would be the reasoning behind nos. 1 and 3?

Refusing to produce proper identification and as to the third one please see my recent reply to Buddha just above your post.

[billms]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

No? Yelling "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS TO A BLACK MAN IN AN AMERICA" in an area that, per bill,



is not an attempt to incite a riot?

C'mon.

no - its not - not with that evidence.

[billms]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Refusing to produce proper identification and as to the third one please see my recent reply to Buddha just above your post.

what constitutes proper identification

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by billms

no - its not - not with that evidence.

Yes, yes it is. It carries the same weight as "get him!" in a neighborhood that may be already edgy about police/community relationships.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by billms

what constitutes proper identification

Proof that it is indeed his residence which he failed/refused to produce.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Refusing to produce proper identification and as to the third one please see my recent reply to Buddha just above your post.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the proposed charges as they relate to this case. Although I'll freely admit I'm not a lawyer. It seems that if those were obvious charges to be made, they would have been filed upon his arrival at the station, to make this thing stick.

And there is as much evidence that he did provide ID as there is any evidence that he didn't.

[billms]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Yes, yes it is. It carries the same weight as "get him!" in a neighborhood that may be already edgy about police/community relationships.

just because one *could* have started doesn't mean you've done anything to show that he was attempting to start one - apples and oranges :)

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by billms

just because one *could* have started doesn't mean you've done anything to show that he was attempting to start one - apples and oranges :)

I'll think we'll agree to disagree.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

I don't agree with your interpretation of the proposed charges as they relate to this case. Although I'll freely admit I'm not a lawyer. It seems that if those were obvious charges to be made, they would have been filed upon his arrival at the station, to make this thing stick.

And there is as much evidence that he did provide ID as there is any evidence that he didn't.

I think that they bowed under the pressure of racial tension. I don't know the history of the area but Bill suggests there has been a history of strained relations between the officers and community.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

I think that they bowed under the pressure of racial tension. I don't know the history of the area but Bill suggests there has been a history of strained relations between the officers and community.

Maybe, but they didn't pull back on the disorderly conduct charge. It seems they wanted this guy charged with something, and one instead of three charges was never going to be viewed as a gentler act.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

Actually, I can read quite well, thank you. Which is how I know that the charge was disorderly conduct, not disturbing the peace. But who needs silly things like actual facts to creep in? Either way, I've never and would never attack your intelligence.

Actually, in many municipalities, DISORDERLY CONDUCT--DISTURBING THE PEACE is the same thing. While technically you are correct, it was listed as disorderly conduct, they are the same thing.

Also, in Massachusetts and other states, such laws give police wide power to arrest someone acting abusively toward them in public.

"You might think that in the United States, you have a right to state an opinion, even an offensive opinion. But prosecutors like to say you don't have a right to mouth off to the police," said Boston defense lawyer Samuel Goldberg.

For his part, Gates continued to loudly berate Crowley as he was leaving the house, according the police report.

Gates was placed under arrest, the police report said, because of "his continued tumultuous behavior outside the residence, in view of the public."

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Actually, in many municipalities, DISORDERLY CONDUCT--DISTURBING THE PEACE is the same thing. While technically you are correct, it was listed as disorderly conduct, they are the same thing.

I know in practice they're much the same, but you asked if I could read, and then cited the charge "specifically" as something it wasn't. Sarcastic I was (insert Yoda voice), but just defending my honor (such that it is).

Regardless, that part of it wasn't the crux of my post. The fact that I had been addressing the "do you know who I am" part was the main point.

[DGTigers]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Does anyone on this chat board believe that Professor Gates was arrested because he is a black man? Would a white Harvard professor who was acting in the same manner have been arrested by this white officer?

No. He was arrested because he was acting like a damn fool.

Would Gates have acted like that if officer Crowley was black?

[pfife]

Originally Posted by DGTigers

No. He was arrested because he was acting like a damn fool.

acting like a "damn fool" is illegal?

When's the raid on this mb?

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by DGTigers

No. He was arrested because he was acting like a damn fool.

Would Gates have acted like that if officer Crowley was black?

Maybe. Many blacks (especially activists) believe that a police officer's only color he or she is attuned to is blue.

In other words: a black officer's a cop first, a black person second.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Buddha

If the cop comes into his home, demands id and then pulls a power play on him? Yeah, I think it would be legal for him to do that. I don't think Arnold should be arrested for that.

How about the point at which the officer walks out of the house, and he follows him, continuing to rant like a madman and starts shouting to people on the sidewalk and out in their yards on the street? Do they just drive off and leave him like that?

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by Melody

How about the point at which the officer walks out of the house, and he follows him, continuing to rant like a madman and starts shouting to people on the sidewalk and out in their yards on the street? Do they just drive off and leave him like that?

Yes.

[billms]

Damn right thats what they should do.

[sinister porpoise]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Actually, in many municipalities, DISORDERLY CONDUCT--DISTURBING THE PEACE is the same thing. While technically you are correct, it was listed as disorderly conduct, they are the same thing.

Also, in Massachusetts and other states, such laws give police wide power to arrest someone acting abusively toward them in public.

Full quote..

Henry Louis Gates case: Should yelling at a cop be a crime? - State/Nation/World - Belleville News-Democrat

"You might think that in the United States, you have a right to state an opinion, even an offensive opinion. But prosecutors like to say you don't have a right to mouth off to the police," said Samuel Goldberg, a Boston criminal defense lawyer.

"Gates was saying, 'You are hassling me because I'm black.' I understand how that's offensive to a police officer," Goldberg said. "It's astounding to me to call it criminal."

Matt Cameron, a criminal defense lawyer in East Boston, said the state's law against "disorderly conduct" dates to the 1600s.

"It's a handy tool for the police because it is so broad and confusing," he said.

Police can arrest people, even in their own homes, for accosting them, interfering with an investigation or resisting a lawful arrest.

But Gates was not accused of interfering with an investigation.

"I would say it is not constitutional to arrest someone in his home just for being loud and abusive to a police officer," said Boston University law professor Tracey Maclin.

[billms]

That there is a lawyering professor. Thats an Eleet. You can't go listening to him SP.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by Melody

How about the point at which the officer walks out of the house, and he follows him, continuing to rant like a madman and starts shouting to people on the sidewalk and out in their yards on the street? Do they just drive off and leave him like that?

It would depend on the situation. Are his actions threatening to cause some sort of disturbance if they don't arrest him? I would doubt it.

Arresting someone should be the last resort, not the first.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

Full quote..

Henry Louis Gates case: Should yelling at a cop be a crime? - State/Nation/World - Belleville News-Democrat

I see what you did.

Solid work SP.

[BIGorangeD]

Did Al Sharpton lose his map to Massachusetts cuz I ain't seen him their yet.

[billms]

Its a long way from Western Michigan to Cambridge. Do you go by Eagle Eyes or Gov. Palin?

[pfife]

Originally Posted by billms

That there is a lawyering professor. Thats an Eleet. You can't go listening to him SP.

The first paragraph isn't. But the second one is!!!

[ewsieg]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Of course age matters. IMO, there's a big difference between some old man yelling and some teenager. Police need to use discretion and use their authority judiciously, not just when they're pissed off at some old guy screaming at them.

Why do old people get to act like dicks and young kids can't?

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by ewsieg

Why do old people get to act like dicks and young kids can't?

Because old people vote in large numbers, and young people don't.

And that's the way we like it, whippersnapper!

[BIGorangeD]

Originally Posted by billms

Its a long way from Western Michigan to Cambridge. Do you go by Eagle Eyes or Gov. Palin?

Alan Keyes:)

[billms]

Originally Posted by ewsieg

Why do old people get to act like dicks and young kids can't?

Who called you old?

[MrDeeds]

Anyone who has defended this Gates character should watch this:

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Must see: Cambridge cops

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Anyone who has defended this Gates character should watch this:

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Must see: Cambridge cops

I don't defend either side. I've been pretty consistent in saying that either side could be telling the truth, lying, or employing a mixture of both.

If they're being sincere, then the officers sticking together is admirable.

That said, this certainly doesn't appear to be the smoking gun against Gates you seem to insinuate. I would expect any police force to stick together in this type of situation.

[JohnJMS]

Can anyone here state that they have themselves yelled repeatedly at a cop, calling him names, refusing instructions and continuing to yell at him out in public after being told to calm down, and NOT be arrested? Can anyone here say they have ever witnessed such an event?

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Can anyone here state that they have themselves yelled repeatedly at a cop, calling him names, using the term 'mother ****er', continuing to yell at him out in public after being told to calm down, and NOT be arrested? Can anyone here say they have ever witnessed such an event?

I haven't done it, and I haven't witnessed such an event.

Why do you ask?

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

I haven't done it, and I haven't witnessed such an event.

Why do you ask?

Because I'm wondering what the result were if anyone ever was engaged in, or witnessed such a scene, and if so, what were the results.

On a side note, what would be people's honest expectations. Me? My expectations are that someone who is not displaying control with a police officer is likely in a mental state where he might do harm to others, or even himself. If I witnessed anything like that - I'd expect the person who was out of control with a police officer, even verbally to the extent that Gates was, to be arrested. Not necessarily prosecuted - but arrested. Gates challenges authority. Something tells me that if one of Gates' students behaved that way in his class, or out in the hallway - he'd expect campus police to take them away.

[pfife]

I don't think Gates house and Harvard Classrooms/hallways are comparable.

[billms]

Originally Posted by pfife

I don't think Gates house and Harvard Classrooms/hallways are comparable.

Of course they are not. What a dumb thing to suggest. What makes you say that?

[pfife]

Originally Posted by billms

Of course they are not. What a dumb thing to suggest. What makes you say that?

This:

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Something tells me that if one of Gates' students behaved that way in his class, or out in the hallway - he'd expect campus police to take them away.