Henry Louis Gates Arrest Reports

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

They should be arrested on what charge?

Comtempt of Court is a specific charge that can be leveled against someone. Hurting a police officer's feelings or ego with words is not.

And who are officers to DEMAND respect? All humans should receive respect, true enough, but to demand it at the barrel of a gun or at the threat of handcuffs is plain wrong.

Who is a judge to demand respect? That argument doesn't work. Sorry.

Also, if you can read, the specific charge was disturbing the peace. I have freedom of speech - but I can't go on my front porch and scream at people and accuse them of being racists. That's disturbing the peace. If a police officer was present - he may or may not choose to arrest me. If I shout it at him, my odds of getting arrested go way up - no matter what color I am. Give it a try sometime. Have the cops come to your home - go into your front yard and start yelling at them and calling them racists and see how long it takes for you to get yourself into handcuffs. Try it in a court, and it will happen even quicker.

As for "Liberty". "Liberty is a concept of political philosophy and identifies the condition in which an individual has the right to act according to his or her own will." When you behave outside established norms, you forfeit, albeit temporarily, your right to act according to your own will. Liberty is not some absolute right. Liberty is a privilege. When you behave poorly, you lose your privileges.

Buddha thinks the court and your home have different expectations. But when you are outside your home, in public, as Gates was, the 'home' example does not apply.

[sub rosa]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Liberty is not some absolute right. Liberty is a privilege.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." -some whack job.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Who is a judge to demand respect? That argument doesn't work. Sorry.

it's a judge. Argument works. Apology accepted.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by pfife

it's a judge. Argument works. Apology accepted.

No apology given.

But using your logic - Police officer gets to demand respect too. Argument works both ways. Apology accepted.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Show me where I said that.

You think the prosecutors should have charged him for yelling at a cop. Therefore, I'm wondering if you think everyone should be arrested/charged for yelling at everyone, or just for yelling at cops.

It's not that hard to deduce.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by sub rosa

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." -some whack job.

Keep reading. According to your narrow interpretation - anarchy should reign and nobody has the right to have their liberty taken away. Let's get serious.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

You think the prosecutors should have charged him for yelling at a cop. Therefore, I'm wondering if you think everyone should be arrested/charged for yelling at everyone, or just for yelling at cops.

It's not that hard to deduce.

If you go out in public and start yelling obscene things at people - you may get arrested. No - it's really not that hard to deduce.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

No apology given.

False - it's right here:

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Sorry.

But using your logic - Police officer gets to demand respect too. Argument works both ways.

False - that's not my logic. My logic was that there's a difference between the courtroom and that man's house. In addition, there's also a difference between a judge and a police officer.

But don't let what I actually said get in the way of your most ridiculously absurd characterization of my posts.

Apology accepted.

Who apologized to you?

[sub rosa]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Who is a judge to demand respect? That argument doesn't work. Sorry.

it's conferred by the legislature (at least in michigan)

600.1701 Neglect or violation of duty or misconduct; power to punish by fine or imprisonment.

Sec. 1701.

The supreme court, circuit court, and all other courts of record, have power to punish by fine or imprisonment, or both, persons guilty of any neglect or violation of duty or misconduct in all of the following cases:

(a) Disorderly, contemptuous, or insolent behavior, committed during its sitting, in its immediate view and presence, and directly tending to interrupt its proceedings or impair the respect due to its authority.

(b) Any breach of the peace, noise, or disturbance directly tending to interrupt its proceedings.

emphasis added. paragraphs (c)-(m) omitted.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

You think the prosecutors should have charged him for yelling at a cop. Therefore, I'm wondering if you think everyone should be arrested/charged for yelling at everyone, or just for yelling at cops.

It's not that hard to deduce.

Show me where I said I think he should be charged/arrested for yelling at a cop.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Who is a judge to demand respect? That argument doesn't work. Sorry.

Also, if you can read, the specific charge was disturbing the peace. I have freedom of speech - but I can't go on my front porch and scream 'mother ****er' at people. That's disturbing the peace. If a police officer was present - he may or may not choose to arrest me. If I shout it at him, my odds of getting arrested go way up - no matter what color I am. Give it a try sometime. Have the cops come to your home - go into your front yard and start yelling at them and calling them mother ****ers and see how long it takes for you to get yourself into handcuffs. Try it in a court, and it will happen even quicker.

As for "Liberty". "Liberty is a concept of political philosophy and identifies the condition in which an individual has the right to act according to his or her own will." When you behave outside established norms, you forfeit, albeit temporarily, your right to act according to your own will. Liberty is not some absolute right. Liberty is a privilege. When you behave poorly, you lose your privileges.

Buddha thinks the court and your home have different expectations. But when you are outside your home, in public, as Gates was, the 'home' example does not apply.

I don't understand what there is to misunderstand about the police taking away his liberty by arresting him. You can say he DESERVED it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't taken away. What's the argument here?

Also considering the altercation started in his house, I think the distinction between and courtroom and a house does apply. Or even the distinction between a courtroom and one's porch. Different circumstances that call for different behaviors. Courtroom's have their own set of rules.

If I go on my porch and swear, I expect to not get arrested, even if there are police around. Especially if I'm 70 years old and a feeble old man. It doesn't matter if the man is black or white, it's stupid to arrest a 70 year old guy like that. There's no point.

If I'm 25 and acting belligerently to the police, then the situation would be different. I'm much more of a threat at that point.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Show me where I said I think he should be charged/arrested for yelling at a cop.

what the hell did he do then? and if you say 'disturb the peace,' there will be a fist coming through your screen, so duck as you type it.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by pfife

False - it's right here:

That was me projecting sorrow for the example cited. Hence the words "I'm" not there. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

what the hell did he do then? and if you say 'disturb the peace,' there will be a fist coming through your screen, so duck as you type it.

Obstruct justice, DISTURB THE PEACE, and attempt to incite a riot.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by Buddha

I don't understand what there is to misunderstand about the police taking away his liberty by arresting him. You can say he DESERVED it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't taken away. What's the argument here?

Did I ever say he didn't have his liberty taken away? No. What I said was

Took away his Liberty? You make it sound like he lost something he can't get back.

I then also stated

As for "Liberty". "Liberty is a concept of political philosophy and identifies the condition in which an individual has the right to act according to his or her own will." When you behave outside established norms, you forfeit, albeit temporarily, your right to act according to your own will. Liberty is not some absolute right. Liberty is a privilege. When you behave poorly, you lose your privileges.

So I agree, he temporarily lost his liberty. I did say he deserved it several time in these threads by his behavior.

So to quote you - What's the argument here?

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Obstruct justice, DISTURB THE PEACE, and attempt to incite a riot.

i.e. yelling at an officer.

so do you think yelling of any sort should be classified as disturbing the peace or attempting to incite a riot?

this is a question you could have answered several posts and several minutes ago and my wall wouldn't have a head-sized dent in it.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

That was me projecting sorrow for the example cited. Hence the words "I'm" not there. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

wasn't it your example? I believe you're the one who compared yelling at a cop to yelling at a judge.

I have a lot of sorrow for that example too... It was truly pitiful.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Also considering the altercation started in his house, I think the distinction between and courtroom and a house does apply. Or even the distinction between a courtroom and one's porch. Different circumstances that call for different behaviors. Courtroom's have their own set of rules.

If I go on my porch and swear, I expect to not get arrested, even if there are police around. Especially if I'm 70 years old and a feeble old man. It doesn't matter if the man is black or white, it's stupid to arrest a 70 year old guy like that. There's no point.

If I'm 25 and acting belligerently to the police, then the situation would be different. I'm much more of a threat at that point.

It doesn't matter where it started - it's where it ended up. The incident that resulted in his arrest didn't occur inside his house.

There is also a difference between 'go(ing) on my porch and swear(ing)' and getting into a verbal confrontation with a police officer responding to a 911 call.

An age shouldn't matter. We wouldn't want age discrimination to become an issue on top of all the racial garbage, would we?

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

i.e. yelling at an officer.

No. Pay closer attention. I know you really really really want me to say that he should have been arrested for yelling at an officer but I didn't and I won't. Take that petty crap somewhere else because this isn't my first rodeo.

[pfife]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

this isn't my first rodeo.

here's the proof of that...

[Biff Mayhem]

You know better than to post that picture. The proper response is the sheriff of gay county picture.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

No. Pay closer attention. I know you really really really want me to say that he should have been arrested for yelling at an officer but I didn't and I won't. Take that petty crap somewhere else because this isn't my first rodeo.

OK, take your ball and go home. But I just have no idea why in the **** you would post that unless you were trolling or ?????

So I'm forced to just assume trolling.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

OK, take your ball and go home. But I just have no idea why in the **** you would post that unless you were trolling or ?????

So I'm forced to just assume trolling.

Trolling = not falling for a simple and easily avoided trap?

Okay, you're right. I'm trolling.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Buddha

I don't understand what there is to misunderstand about the police taking away his liberty by arresting him. You can say he DESERVED it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't taken away. What's the argument here?

Also considering the altercation started in his house, I think the distinction between and courtroom and a house does apply. Or even the distinction between a courtroom and one's porch. Different circumstances that call for different behaviors. Courtroom's have their own set of rules.

If I go on my porch and swear, I expect to not get arrested, even if there are police around. Especially if I'm 70 years old and a feeble old man. It doesn't matter if the man is black or white, it's stupid to arrest a 70 year old guy like that. There's no point.

If I'm 25 and acting belligerently to the police, then the situation would be different. I'm much more of a threat at that point.

You know, from his pictures I thought Gates was elderly. But as it turns out, he's 58. That's not quite old enough to get away with the crotchety old man defense.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

It doesn't matter where it started - it's where it ended up. The incident that resulted in his arrest didn't occur inside his house.

There is also a difference between 'go(ing) on my porch and swear(ing)' and getting into a verbal confrontation with a police officer responding to a 911 call.

An age shouldn't matter. We wouldn't want age discrimination to become an issue on top of all the racial garbage, would we?

Of course age matters. IMO, there's a big difference between some old man yelling and some teenager. Police need to use discretion and use their authority judiciously, not just when they're pissed off at some old guy screaming at them.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by Melody

You know, from his pictures I thought Gates was elderly. But as it turns out, he's 58. That's not quite old enough to get away with the crotchety old man defense.

It is to me. He wasn't a threat to anything other than that particular officer's mood.

[MrDeeds]

Does anyone on this chat board believe that Professor Gates was arrested because he is a black man? Would a white Harvard professor who was acting in the same manner have been arrested by this white officer?

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Trolling = not falling for a simple and easily avoided trap?

Okay, you're right. I'm trolling.

so explain why he should have been charged, what he did exactly, without broad bureaucratic terms. tell me in terms a caveman could understand. what were his physical actions?

[billms]

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Show me where I said I think he should be charged/arrested for yelling at a cop.

now i'm confused - what then do you think he should have been chared for?

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Does anyone on this chat board believe that Professor Gates was arrested because he is a black man? Would a white Harvard professor who was acting in the same manner have been arrested by this white officer?

If he were a young white man, he would have been arrested. An old white man, who knows. I wouldn't rule it out. An old black woman? I would probably think not. He should not have been arrested, but there was no excuse for his tantrum.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by billms

now i'm confused - what then do you think he should have been chared for?

good luck barking up that tree

is it trolling if 2 people take the bait?

[billms]

Originally Posted by MrDeeds

Does anyone on this chat board believe that Professor Gates was arrested because he is a black man? Would a white Harvard professor who was acting in the same manner have been arrested by this white officer?

From what I know I don't think race entered into the arrest. I think it was a pure power play from a cop who wanted respect.

But I do think that there is nothing unreasonable about Gates thinking race was part of it.

[Melody]

Originally Posted by Buddha

It is to me. He wasn't a threat to anything other than that particular officer's mood.

Arnold Schwartzenegger is 62. Do you suppose it's okay for him to verbally abuse a police officer?

And I sure know that I'm not inclined to let my husband use his age as an excuse for temper tantrums, at least not until he's old enough to draw social security.

[billms]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

so explain why he should have been charged, what he did exactly, without broad bureaucratic terms. tell me in terms a caveman could understand. what were his physical actions?

oh, thats easy, he was yelling at a cop

didn't you know that?

[billms]

Originally Posted by Melody

Arnold Schwartzenegger is 62. Do you suppose it's okay for him to verbally abuse a police officer?

And I sure know that I'm not inclined to let my husband use his age as an excuse for temper tantrums, at least not until he's old enough to draw social security.

What does OK mean? Nice? Polite? Respectful? A "cool thing to do?" No.

Legal? Damn right.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by billms

oh, thats easy, he was yelling at a cop

didn't you know that?

Biff: 2 + 2 = a whole number between 3 and 5.

Me: So 4.

Biff: Show me where I said that.

Me: Well, logically.....

Biff: Forget it junior, I'm not falling for that.

[JohnJMS]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Of course age matters. IMO, there's a big difference between some old man yelling and some teenager. Police need to use discretion and use their authority judiciously, not just when they're pissed off at some old guy screaming at them.

Tell that to the dead police officer at the Holocaust Museum who was 6'6", 280 pounds and killed by an 88 year old man. Violent crimes by seniors in this country are escalating. Erratic behavior, as Gates' behavior was described by the BLACK officer on the scene, needs to be addressed. We get it - you think the officer shouldn't have arrested him. However, it was his call, it was backed up by the black office on site, and is not a reason for Obama to turn this into what he did - a NATIONAL race issue which is further dividing, not uniting, people at large.

[LineCrosser]

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Who is a judge to demand respect? That argument doesn't work. Sorry.

My argument doesn't work? Why? Because you say so? My argument is perfectly sound, thank you, and not reactionary as those I've been opposing.

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

Also, if you can read, the specific charge was disturbing the peace.

Actually, I can read quite well, thank you. Which is how I know that the charge was disorderly conduct, not disturbing the peace. But who needs silly things like actual facts to creep in? Either way, I've never and would never attack your intelligence.

Originally Posted by JohnJMS

I have freedom of speech - but I can't go on my front porch and scream 'mother ****er' at people. That's disturbing the peace. If a police officer was present - he may or may not choose to arrest me. If I shout it at him, my odds of getting arrested go way up - no matter what color I am. Give it a try sometime. Have the cops come to your home - go into your front yard and start yelling at them and calling them mother ****ers and see how long it takes for you to get yourself into handcuffs. Try it in a court, and it will happen even quicker.
Buddha thinks the court and your home have different expectations. But when you are outside your home, in public, as Gates was, the 'home' example does not apply.

You've corrupted the argument to suit your needs. I was talking about Oblong saying that people (anybody, not just Gates) should be arrested simply for saying the phrase "do you know who I am?" I hadn't been talking about Gates for several posts. You had to know that, because you can read.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by Melody

Arnold Schwartzenegger is 62. Do you suppose it's okay for him to verbally abuse a police officer?

And I sure know that I'm not inclined to let my husband use his age as an excuse for temper tantrums, at least not until he's old enough to draw social security.

If the cop comes into his home, demands id and then pulls a power play on him? Yeah, I think it would be legal for him to do that. I don't think Arnold should be arrested for that.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

Biff: 2 + 2 = a whole number between 3 and 5.

Me: So 4.

Biff: Show me where I said that.

Me: Well, logically.....

Biff: Forget it junior, I'm not falling for that.

You're quite new to this aren't you?

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

so explain why he should have been charged, what he did exactly, without broad bureaucratic terms. tell me in terms a caveman could understand. what were his physical actions?

Originally Posted by billms

now i'm confused - what then do you think he should have been chared for?

Originally Posted by Biff Mayhem

Obstruct justice, DISTURB THE PEACE, and attempt to incite a riot.

Got it now Einsteins?