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  1. #1
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Default Biden recommends committing a felony, rather than self defense




    What a loony toon this guy is. Scary that he is so close to the Whitehouse.

    So his response to a question regarding how people will defend themselves if certain firearms and high capacity mags are made illegal, is to commit two counts of assault with the deadly weapon. Great, what a jackass.



    A double barrel shotgun is one of the worst weapons you can choose for self-defense, unless you are very proficient at reloading under duress (not many people fit that category).

    And his comment about AR-15's being hard to aim and hard to use is absolutely false. Kids can easily shoot these, and do, at Appleseed events. Plus, Police Agencies have recommended AR-15's due to their accuracy and ease of use. There's a link to a good article on that recommendation, but I can't post it right now.
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    Obviously, I think Biden's wrong, but I don't follow your argument. Commit a felony rather than self-defense? What does that mean?

    (Sorry for being slow)

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    Going outside and firing "two blasts" from your double barrel shotgun at an unknown person who you haven't identified as an armed threat is a felony... twice over. It's assault with a deadly weapon.

    Moreover, it's not self-defense. And it leaves you with a paperweight that needs to be reloaded to be of any use if Biden's tactic didn't work.
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    Firing rounds at unidentified people? When did Biden get a job with the LAPD?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    Going outside and firing "two blasts" from your double barrel shotgun at an unknown person
    That's not what Biden suggests in the video.

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    Clearly you should fire 20 to 30 .223 rounds rapidly at the unidentified person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister porpoise View Post
    That's not what Biden suggests in the video.
    Yes it is.
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    Seriously, the suggestion to venture outside your dwelling and engage anyone with a weapon is armed assault, discharging the weapon without justification can be considered attempted homicide with any firearm.
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    In some places, what he is saying may be unlawful, but I can't see how people think he's saying to engage and shoot at unidentified people outside of his home. He was making a point that if you believe that a criminal fears a target has a gun and if you have a feeling someone is targeting you, go let them hear you fire off a few shots with a 12 guage. Another words, make them know you have a gun.

    As someone that does wholeheartedly believe in guns for personal protection, it makes sense to me. Now will the criminal know it's a double barrelled shotgun and realize he now has a small opening to raid the house before the gun can be reloaded....possibly. I'd say more than 9 out of 10 times a would be attacker would be too busy running in the opposite direction of the noise.

    To be fair, I don't think it's the smartest response. I'd tell my wife to stay in our home and call the police, with the shotgun in hand. If someone comes into the house, announce that police have been called and that you have a shotgun. Pull the trigger only if you really have to. I'd think most police departments would say the same thing. But interview any tea partier and if you gave them what I preferred or what Biden said (assuming they don't know Biden said it) and I wouldn't be surprised if most backed Biden's statement.
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    That is not the first shotgun idiocy out of Biden. Maybe he has stock in Benelli or something. In January he commented the best remedy for post disaster anarchy would be a shotgun.
    Now in Wsieg's scenario, if someone enters my house and I am armed, I am not about to announce my presence and endanger myself. As soon as I can id a target, I will be prepared to stop the intruder. Now I do agree somewhat with the shotgun route in defense, but the double barrel shotgun is too long and unwieldy for easy use, plus the limited rounds. A simple short barreled Mossberg 500 is cheap and easier to use. I prefer my shotgun rounds in a large frame pistol.

    Also if Biden is correct, why does our military prefer variants of the M-16 if they are difficult to use or aim rather than double barreled shotguns? Why? Because they don't agree with Biden's assessment.
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    Huey, he's just making a point that you can still scare off would be criminals with what will still be available for purchase. I don't think he truly meant that all you'd be allowed to have is a double barrel shotgun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewsieg View Post
    Huey, he's just making a point that you can still scare off would be criminals with what will still be available for purchase. I don't think he truly meant that all you'd be allowed to have is a double barrel shotgun.
    I somewhat agree because he and the admin could not *** such legislation, but as far as what is in his mind, I think he stated exactly what he said. And today Press Sec jay Carney stated the President agrees with the Vice President.

    And the attempt to "scare off" "would be criminals" by blasting a shotgun off of your porch would still be at least a misdemeanor in most municipalities. Poor advice.
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    hahahahahahahahahaha

    fail

    shoot at an unknow person? It would be much stronger argument if he actually said that. What a crock

    yet again, the gun luvrs just conjure up facts that don't exist. Per usual. Now we get to treat ourselves to them reading Biden's mind. I'll take a pass on that trash
    Last edited by pfife; 02-20-2013 at 09:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballmich View Post
    What a loony toon this guy is. Scary that he is so close to the Whitehouse.

    So his response to a question regarding how people will defend themselves if certain firearms and high capacity mags are made illegal, is to commit two counts of assault with the deadly weapon. Great, what a jackass.



    A double barrel shotgun is one of the worst weapons you can choose for self-defense, unless you are very proficient at reloading under duress (not many people fit that category).

    And his comment about AR-15's being hard to aim and hard to use is absolutely false. Kids can easily shoot these, and do, at Appleseed events. Plus, Police Agencies have recommended AR-15's due to their accuracy and ease of use. There's a link to a good article on that recommendation, but I can't post it right now.
    Hilarious that if this person is unknown, per your other messages, that using self defense is an option.

    Glad I don't have to defend that paradox. I'm sure you won't either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    hahahahahahahahahaha

    fail

    shoot at an unknow person? It would be much stronger argument if he actually said that. What a crock

    yet again, the gun luvrs just conjure up facts that don't exist. Per usual. Now we get to treat ourselves to them reading Biden's mind. I'll take a pass on that trash
    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    Hilarious that if this person is unknown, per your other messages, that using self defense is an option.

    Glad I don't have to defend that paradox. I'm sure you won't either.
    Your last two posts make little sense. expand please.
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    i believe that huey has said in prior gun-control threads that the best firearm for home self-defense is a shotgun rather than a handgun. please correct me if i am wrong.

    what vice pres. biden suggested, as i understand it, was to go outside and fire two warning shots into the air to frighten off someone who was trying to break in. that certainly is not a felony, and wouldn't likely be prosecuted as any crime given the factual scenario.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub rosa View Post
    i believe that huey has said in prior gun-control threads that the best firearm for home self-defense is a shotgun rather than a handgun. please correct me if i am wrong.

    what vice pres. biden suggested, as i understand it, was to go outside and fire two warning shots into the air to frighten off someone who was trying to break in. that certainly is not a felony, and wouldn't likely be prosecuted as any crime given the factual scenario.
    In the People's Republic of Ann Arbor it might qualify as illegal discharge of a firearm, but I think that is a misdemeanor...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewsieg View Post
    To be fair, I don't think it's the smartest response. I'd tell my wife to stay in our home and call the police, with the shotgun in hand. If someone comes into the house, announce that police have been called and that you have a shotgun. Pull the trigger only if you really have to. I'd think most police departments would say the same thing. But interview any tea partier and if you gave them what I preferred or what Biden said (assuming they don't know Biden said it) and I wouldn't be surprised if most backed Biden's statement.
    This is precisely what I have told my wife.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hueytaxi View Post
    Your last two posts make little sense. expand please.
    Do they ever?
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    In the People's Republic of Ann Arbor it might qualify as illegal discharge of a firearm, but I think that is a misdemeanor...
    i'm sure that discharging a firearm within city limits is a misdemeanor in many jurisdictions. but given the factual scenario, i think prosecuting authority would choose not to prosecute. and if they did, if i were the defense attorney i would argue duress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub rosa View Post
    i believe that huey has said in prior gun-control threads that the best firearm for home self-defense is a shotgun rather than a handgun. please correct me if i am wrong.

    what vice pres. biden suggested, as i understand it, was to go outside and fire two warning shots into the air to frighten off someone who was trying to break in. that certainly is not a felony, and wouldn't likely be prosecuted as any crime given the factual scenario.
    It becomes a felony if you hit someone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    hahahahahahahahahaha

    fail

    shoot at an unknow person? It would be much stronger argument if he actually said that. What a crock

    yet again, the gun luvrs just conjure up facts that don't exist. Per usual. Now we get to treat ourselves to them reading Biden's mind. I'll take a pass on that trash
    He said to shoot, to let the unknown person know you have a shotgun. What are you shooting at? Your walls? Your ceiling? All the great outdoors? Maybe, at 179 degrees, you and Biden haven't realized that a shot in the air must come down. If Captain Semantics wants to parse the difference between shooting a shotgun at an unidentified person rather than shooting one near an unidentified person, he should put his dunce cap on and sit in the corner with that argument.
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    I love Joe Biden and all, but sometimes he says some really really stupid things that he shouldn't. This is one of those times. At least he's not a freaking Sith Lord like the last VP... still though this was pretty inexcusable and stupid for him to say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shabba4detroit View Post
    It becomes a felony if you hit someone.
    Or in the vicinity of someone, which becomes assault with a deadly weapon. Twice over, if you fire twice, as Biden suggests.
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    I'm reminded of this very old joke

    Acts 2:38
    An elderly woman had just returned to her home from an evening of religious service when she was startled by an intruder. As she caught the man in the act of robbing her home of its valuables, she yelled, "Stop - Acts 2:38!" (..turn from your sin...) The burglar stopped dead in his tracks. The woman calmly called the police and explained what she had done.

    As the officer cuffed the man to take him in, he asked the burglar, "Why did you just stand there? All the old lady did was yell a scripture to you."

    "Scripture?" replied the burglar, "She said she had an AXE and two 38's!"

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    Bob Owens lays it out here:

    Biden doesn’t define what constitutes a “problem” to him, but the laws of each state, while they vary from one to another, generally only allow the use of a firearm to defend human life. Further, the threat must satisfy a test where a reasonable person would find the threat to be both life-threatening and immediate.
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    I have no use for Biden and his advice.

    Just today I declared my house a no intruder zone. So I'm set.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    I have no use for Biden and his advice.

    Just today I declared my house a no intruder zone. So I'm set.
    Congrats.
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    To get back to Sub rosa, yes, I have recommended a shotgun for some. Not for an avid shooter though. A shotgun can be a very simple area weapon delivering a greater chance for the inexperienced to actually hit their target. BUT, the average hunting shotgun is a long gun. It can be difficult to maneuver within the home effectively. While I do possess a legal short barrel shotgun, it has a folding stock reducing the length be about 1/3. The other factor in shot shells is the range is reduced compared to a cartridge round. even the lowly .22LR carries a warning that the bullet has a one mile range.
    Shooting in the air (RE: Shabba's comment) is never wise for the reason stated. Soft ground would be much more appropriate if forced to go that direction. My preference would never be to fire my weapon in order to "scare off" an intruder. While it demonstrates you have a weapon, it also pinpoints your position as a target. Now the bottom line of owning a gun for home defense is knowing in your head if you could use it to actually kill another. This is huge and if any doubt exists, then the gun is not an answer. For most, the gun is not an answer.
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    I'd also point out that Biden recommended a 'double barrel shotgun', not just a shotgun. I agree that a shotgun is a good home defense choice for most people, if we are talking about a semi-automatic or pump action variant. But a double barrel shotgun is a poor choice, because (as Huey has pointed out) it is long and unweildy in a home defense situation, and it has limited capacity at two shells.

    Hey, maybe Biden has sawed off his double barrel shotgun like it's the 19th century again (hope he left it a legal length), and maybe his wife Jill is extremely proficient at reloading, making the double barrel an okay option for them. For most people, this won't be the case, making the double barrel shotgun a poor choice for the average person.
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    Just as an aside, most people who are intruders are not expert marksmen. They are guys who got a gun and rob homes. An intruder who can see the trajectory of a bullet and determine where you are and operate like a trained marine is unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Do they ever?
    troll on
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    Quote Originally Posted by hueytaxi View Post
    Your last two posts make little sense. expand please.
    I don't care if it made sense to you or not. You've disearned my time. If you can't figure out that it's not self defense to shoot at "an unknown person who you haven't identified as an armed threat", that's you and your neighbor's problem. I'm glad you don't live near me and my family.
    Last edited by pfife; 02-21-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shabba4detroit View Post
    He said to shoot, to let the unknown person know you have a shotgun. What are you shooting at? Your walls? Your ceiling? All the great outdoors? Maybe, at 179 degrees, you and Biden haven't realized that a shot in the air must come down. If Captain Semantics wants to parse the difference between shooting a shotgun at an unidentified person rather than shooting one near an unidentified person, he should put his dunce cap on and sit in the corner with that argument.
    yeah don't care about your irrelevant nonsense. You've disearned my time with your lying about me.
    Last edited by pfife; 02-21-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    Just as an aside, most people who are intruders are not expert marksmen. They are guys who got a gun and rob homes. An intruder who can see the trajectory of a bullet and determine where you are and operate like a trained marine is unlikely.
    most intruders aren't armed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    most intruders aren't armed.
    That too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    Just as an aside, most people who are intruders are not expert marksmen. They are guys who got a gun and rob homes. An intruder who can see the trajectory of a bullet and determine where you are and operate like a trained marine is unlikely.
    Willing to risk a life on your theory? I won't risk mine or my family"s. Hint: Muzzle flash is a dead give away.pun intended)
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    I don't care if it made sense to you or not. You've disearned my time. If you can't figure out that it's not self defense to shoot at "an unknown person who you haven't identified as an armed threat", that's you and your neighbor's problem. I'm glad you don't live near me and my family.
    So you accept an intruder into your home without an introduction?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfife View Post
    most intruders aren't armed.
    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    That too.
    So happy to have expert opinions here. Secondly why does it matter?
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    By Todd in forum MotownSports Bar and Grill
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-29-2002, 09:06 AM

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