Game #45: Bucks @ Pistons - 1/29/13

**Buddha** · 01-29-2013, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by MC24

Drummond will be a more dominant player than Dwight. Drummond's upside is Shaq and I'm not kidding or joking around.

This kid should have gone top 3 and I think he would have gone #1 if he hadn't picked a school that hid his talents.

How is Monroe limited btw? Good rebounder, good post game, starting to develop a jumper and when he and Drummond are on the floor, his defense is much better.

How is he limited? He's a 6'11 man who can't dunk. That's damn limited. When he plays against a team without a frontline (like Miami), he can score. When he plays against a team with a good frontline (like Chicago), he's invisible. His lack of athleticism makes him a very limited player at the moment.

He's also a bad post defender, can't block shots because he can't jump, and can't shoot.

Unless he can find that jump shot, he'll never be anything more than a decent player against small teams.

**Buddha** · 01-29-2013, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

I would rather cut Stuckey than trade him for Gay. Stuckey is not guaranteed all the money left on his contract; if we cut him by June 30...he would only get $4 million dollars.

Then cut him. Now. It would save the team a lot of aggravation and would likely make them better in the long run by finding out whether or not English can play.

It is a too early to write off Brandon Knight. He is barely 21 years old. He might not be worth much now but if you limit your expectations to combo guard off the bench rather than starting point guard, there is more of a future for him.

It's early, but there are a lot of worrying signs.

**Buddha** · 01-29-2013, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

I don't normally make it a point to defend Brandon Knight but why are you judging him as a finished product? He has so much more athleticism than Gordon it is not even a noteworthy comparison. Best case for Brandon Knight is something like Jason Terry and while I admit that is unlikely, you have to give him some time develop to see what he becomes.

You obviously don't remember Ben Gordon when he came into the league. To paraphrase Charlie Murphy, that cat could ball. Gordon was an amazing scorer for a little man, but his problem was he dominated the ball and the Bulls had just fallen into the #1 pick in the draft and ended up with some guy named Rose.

Gordon was a much better scorer than Knight is.

Knight is young and has time to develop, but I don't see it right now. I see an undersized three point shooter. There are worse things you could be, but this team needs a point guard in the worst way.

And do you know how you spell Middleton? S-u-m-m-e-r-s. Coming soon to the D-League playoff game near you.

**MC24** · 01-30-2013, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Buddha

How is he limited? He's a 6'11 man who can't dunk. That's damn limited. When he plays against a team without a frontline (like Miami), he can score. When he plays against a team with a good frontline (like Chicago), he's invisible. His lack of athleticism makes him a very limited player at the moment.

He's also a bad post defender, can't block shots because he can't jump, and can't shoot.

Unless he can find that jump shot, he'll never be anything more than a decent player against small teams.

I don't think you've watched a single minutes of Greg Monroe's career if you believe this. He has proven he can score on good defensive bigs like an Andrew Bogut.

This whole "he's not an athletic freak so he's an average player" crap needs to stop.

**T&P_Fan** · 01-30-2013, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by MC24

Gay is a lot like Demarcus Cousins. Overrated chucker. Overpaid to boot.

There is no comparison to be made between Cousins and Gay. I don't even know why you would try. Two completely different players, two completely different games, two completely different styles.

Cousins is a really good player who would help any team, the dude is just a loose cannon. Gay is a overrated chucker.

**T&P_Fan** · 01-30-2013, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by MC24

I don't think you've watched a single minutes of Greg Monroe's career if you believe this. He has proven he can score on good defensive bigs like an Andrew Bogut.

This whole "he's not an athletic freak so he's an average player" crap needs to stop.

This is all incorrect. Buddha is absolutely correct. Andrew Bogut? Give me a break, when he hasn't been injured he has been hobbled on the court since Monroe came into the league. And yes, when Monroe goes against guys like Noah or Andy V (before he got hurt) Monroe was invisible.

No where did Buddha say that because Monroe is not athletic that it makes him a bad player, he indicated that without it he will need post moves and a jumper, like Tim Duncan, only Monroe doesn't have any of those things. Monroe is an average player, but he has to develop better post moves and a jumper, or else he will get blocked by Noah every time.

**Deleterious** · 01-30-2013, 09:34 AM

Monroe has played 2 games against Bogut. He scores 19.5 PPG. He scored 32 in one, 7 in the other.

Monroe has played 4 games against Varejao. He scores 9.5 PPG against him.

Monroe has played 7 games against Noah. He scores 12 PPG against him.

**T&P_Fan** · 01-30-2013, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Monroe has played 2 games against Bogut. He scores 19.5 PPG. He scored 32 in one, 7 in the other.

Monroe has played 4 games against Varejao. He scores 9.5 PPG against him.

Monroe has played 7 games against Noah. He scores 12 PPG against him.

This seems about right. Varejao works him out.

**Buddha** · 01-30-2013, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by MC24

I don't think you've watched a single minutes of Greg Monroe's career if you believe this. He has proven he can score on good defensive bigs like an Andrew Bogut.

This whole "he's not an athletic freak so he's an average player" crap needs to stop.

I've watched as much of his career as I could and followed him when I couldn't see it. All of people's doubts about Monroe when he came out of college have come true, IMO.

He needs a jumper. If he can develop an outside shot he can be ok offensively (the black Kevin Love). But if he doesn't, he'll always be limited against more athletic bigs (Andrew Bogut doesn't really count as an athletic big, BTW) who are good defenders. Right now there is no reason for them to follow Monroe away from the basket because he won't shoot it. And if Monroe goes to the basket, they can just block his shot because he can't jump.

Monroe hasn't really progressed this year as far as I can see. If anything he has regressed a bit. If the current Greg Monroe (sans jumper) is your building block, then you're going to be in line for a lot of NBA man of the year awards....and a lot of first round playoff losses.

He can still develop a jumper, but I would deal him for Cousins in a heartbeat.

**DTroppens** · 01-30-2013, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Buddha

Monroe hasn't really progressed this year as far as I can see. If anything he has regressed a bit.

+1. If I had to write a one sentence thing about Monroe, it would be the combination of these two sentences. He's been somewhat disappointing this season.

**Gehringer_2** · 01-30-2013, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Buddha

I've watched as much of his career as I could and followed him when I couldn't see it. All of people's doubts about Monroe when he came out of college have come true, IMO.

He needs a jumper

Yeah. I'd be a lot more impressed if the Pistons promo of Monroe had featured him practicing jumpers instead if doing hop drills on the backboard.

**Deleterious** · 01-30-2013, 10:52 AM

Monroe and the Pistons would be better served by working on his defense.

I will take 16 and 8 all year if he plays above average defense.

**DaBishop** · 01-30-2013, 11:02 AM

Couple of things...doesn't Varajeo and Noah have that effect on lots of players? Aren't Varajeo, Bogut, Aldridge, Noah, and virtually all big men much better players now then they were in their third seasons? This is the same thing for fans of every team, but people always expect their players to be finished products on their time table. Monroe is still 22 years old and you're complaining that the best big men in the league, guys in the primes of their careers, are better then him and get the better of him. Good lord...Why aren't we just happy we have a player who's in the discussion at 22 years old. Noah wasn't. Varajeo wasn't. Bogut wasn't. His PER is better over his first 3 years of his career then guys like Aldridge, Lopez, Horford, Jefferson, Hibbert, even arguably Howard. Yes, we all wanted him to grow this season into a 20-10 guy and if he did he'd be arguably the best Center in the league but at 22 16-9 is pretty darn good and as he continues to mature people who think he's peaked are being extremely pessimistic about him.

**DaBishop** · 01-30-2013, 02:53 PM

Andre Drummond battled cold during his 18-18 game « PistonPowered

hopefully explains why Drummond was tired last night

**DrWho17** · 01-30-2013, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Buddha

At this point, what is Brandon Knight? He's an undersized shooting guard. He's Ben Gordon who plays better defense but doesn't have the offensive dynamism that Gordon had before he got to Detroit and got fat and happy.

Singler is nothing. Charlie V is nothing. Daye is Charlie V only five years younger. Prince is and old, overpaid role player. Maxiell is too small to play in the NBA unless he's the 8th or 9th man playing 10-15 minutes a night.

Who the hell knows what Jerebko is because they never play him anymore. Same with English.

Middleton is a bust. You know it. I know it. We all knew it as soon as they drafted him and we all said "WHO?"

Let's face it, this team needs to get lucky in the lottery or their ceiling is the Atlanta Hawks.

Heh, did you see who was playing with Dwight Howard in Orlando, you can have a bunch of bums on your team and win in the NBA if you've got a guy like Drummond holding it down on the defensive end.

**DrWho17** · 01-30-2013, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

And he's done some of that this year. Is it real? Is it Bynum maturing as a player and doing what it takes to be an effective player? Maybe. You are right. I've even said he's been the closest thing we have that looks like a PG. But I guess before I think Bynum has matured, I'd like to see this continue into March. He'll get that chance. There's no reason for him not to. But I'm not holding my breath that 12 months from now I'll think of Bynum as a different player than what I've thought about him most of his career. If he does show some of this, then there may be reason to try to keep him for two years at a reasonable wage. But, like I said, I want to see this continue before giving him credit for too much of anything yet.

Bynum is so much better when he has a guy like Drummond opening up the middle of the court for him. With Daye/Villanueva on the court camping out at the 3-point line he has some serious room to manuever and drive, Stuckey is playing really bad right now, but I think Singler would be better on the second team rather then trying to guard guys like Monta Ellis everynight, and Stuckey would be better starting, if only for his ability to defend the smaller/quicker guys but hopefully he can do some ball handling/distributing as well.

**Hart** · 01-30-2013, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Buddha

You obviously don't remember Ben Gordon when he came into the league. To paraphrase Charlie Murphy, that cat could ball. Gordon was an amazing scorer for a little man, but his problem was he dominated the ball and the Bulls had just fallen into the #1 pick in the draft and ended up with some guy named Rose.

Gordon was a much better scorer than Knight is.

Knight is young and has time to develop, but I don't see it right now. I see an undersized three point shooter. There are worse things you could be, but this team needs a point guard in the worst way.

And do you know how you spell Middleton? S-u-m-m-e-r-s. Coming soon to the D-League playoff game near you.

I was not trying to say Gordon was not good for the Bulls. He just does not have Knight's athleticism. Gordon was one of the premier shooters in the league, which Knight will never be.

**Hart** · 01-30-2013, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Monroe and the Pistons would be better served by working on his defense.

I will take 16 and 8 all year if he plays above average defense.

It is a stretch for him to become above average on defense. Defense starts with athleticism and Monroe is just too limited there. Where he needs to make his money is on offense. Learn to hit a jump shot...as Buddha said. And learn to finish with his right hand. That is what he needs to work on.

**Deleterious** · 01-30-2013, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

It is a stretch for him to become above average on defense. Defense starts with athleticism and Monroe is just too limited there. Where he needs to make his money is on offense. Learn to hit a jump shot...as Buddha said. And learn to finish with his right hand. That is what he needs to work on.

That just isnt true. Kendrick Perkins is considered one of the best low post defenders in the league and Monroe is more athletic.

Being an elite shot blocker is about athleticism but you can be a good defender without blocking shots.

**Hart** · 01-30-2013, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

That just isnt true. Kendrick Perkins is considered one of the best low post defenders in the league and Monroe is more athletic.

Being an elite shot blocker is about athleticism but you can be a good defender without blocking shots.

There are exceptions. Perkins is one of them because he is a beast of a man.

**DaBishop** · 01-30-2013, 07:06 PM

Bill Laimbeer was a pretty solid defender so there goes the "you need to be athletic" to be a god defender argument.

**Hart** · 01-30-2013, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by DaBishop

Bill Laimbeer was a pretty solid defender so there goes the "you need to be athletic" to be a god defender argument.

I said defense starts with athleticism and it is a stretch for Monroe to become a good defender because of his athleticism. I never said it was impossible. Finding exceptions does not mean we should consider Monroe to have a bright future on defense.

**DaBishop** · 01-30-2013, 07:27 PM

well here's an article that points to Monroe's defense is better suited to playing PF and if he can bring his offensive game to work at the PF position as well we'll be looking pretty good.

Is Greg Monroe capable of defending NBA power forwards? - Detroit Bad Boys

**Hart** · 01-30-2013, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by DaBishop

well here's an article that points to Monroe's defense is better suited to playing PF and if he can bring his offensive game to work at the PF position as well we'll be looking pretty good.

Is Greg Monroe capable of defending NBA power forwards? - Detroit Bad Boys

I hope this article is right. I used to try and make the argument he was a better fit for power forward but this year has me questioning that.