Game #23: Pistons @ 76ers - 12/10/12

**Deleterious** · 12-10-2012, 01:02 PM

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Detroit 7-15 (2-10) @ Philadelphia 11-9 (7-5)

Live from the Wells Fargo

Time: 7PM EST

TV: FSD and NBATV

Injury Report

Detroit: None

Philadelphia: Andrew Bynum - Out (Knee). Royal Ivey - Questionable (Groin). Damien Wilkins - Questionable (Calf). Nick Young - Questionable (Toe).

Season Series - Philadelphia 1-0

11/14/12 - DET 94 PHI 76 | Recap | Shot Chart | Game Thread

Team Stats

Team Four Factors | Team Opp
eFG% - 0.464 (25th of 30) | 0.492 (18th of 30)
TOV% - 0.117 (2nd of 30) | 0.150 (8th of 30)
ORB% - 0.246 (25th of 30) | 0.261 (8th of 30)
FT/FGA - 0.175 (28th of 30) | 0.190 (8th of 30)

Team Leaders
Win Shares - Thaddeus Young 2.0
Minutes Per Game - Jrue Holiday 38.5
Points Per Game - Jrue Holiday 17.6
Rebounds Per Game - Thaddeus Young 7.4
Assists Per Game - Jrue Holiday 8.9
Steals Per Game - Thaddeus Young 1.5
Blocks Per Game - Spencer Hawes 1.1

Team Four Factors | Team Opp
eFG% - 0.482 (18th of 30) | 0.475 (7th of 30)
TOV% - 0.144 (19th of 30) | 0.125 (26th of 30)
ORB% - 0.269 (14th of 30) | 0.298 (29th of 30)
FT/FGA - 0.228 (10th of 30) | 0.220 (21st of 30)

Team Leaders
Win Shares - Andre Drummond 1.4
Minutes Per Game - Tayshaun Prince 32.8
Points Per Game - Greg Monroe 15.0
Rebounds Per Game - Greg Monroe 9.2
Assists Per Game - Brandon Knight 5.0
Steals Per Game - Greg Monroe 1.5
Blocks Per Game - Jason Maxiell 1.5

**Deleterious** · 12-10-2012, 01:03 PM

*****ATTENTION*****

For those that cant normally watch a game. Tonights is on NBATV. Enjoy.

**Deleterious** · 12-10-2012, 03:17 PM

NBA.com: Pistons News | The Charlie V Factor

**Deleterious** · 12-10-2012, 03:19 PM

I hope DTroppens doesn't get fired for yelling obscenities in the office after reading that.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 12-10-2012, 03:34 PM

'...and overall shot-making aplomb Charlie V offers.'

I don't know why, but this quote made me laugh.

**DTroppens** · 12-10-2012, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

I hope DTroppens doesn't get fired for yelling obscenities in the office after reading that.

Now I have to read it. If it's about Charlie V getting playing time to make him more marketable, I'm all for it. Anything beyond that, I might cringe. That said, he certainly is playing with more zest than he has since he's been here. Based on the "Charlie V curve" he hasn't been complete garbage.

**DTroppens** · 12-10-2012, 03:50 PM

" arguably the most naturally gifted scorer on the roster"

Apparently the reporter has never seen Charlie V work in the post.
He was Rick Mahorned the other night.

**DTroppens** · 12-10-2012, 04:04 PM

Some of it I actually agree with. He's showing a nice touch with his dishes, making some nice assists - quality assists. He's been a mad man with setting screens, particularly the first four or five games when he returned. Most were haphazzardly placed, but he wasn't getting called for offensive fouls, so what does it matter? He'd go trying to set three picks in 24 seconds. And he's tried to be more active on the defensive end.

But to credit Charlie V for the increase in offensive production beyond a minor measurable amount I think it stretching it. He's had a couple productive offensive games off the bench, but he's also been a detriment with some really pour games. For the most part, he's been in between. He's been a reasonably steady performer in terms of effort off the bench. Sometimes he brings something to the table with what he can bring, sometimes it's not there on that night. But the key is he's working. And, really, that's what bothered me most about Charlie V. He showed 0% desire for two years. He flat out didn't move on defense and the only place he moved to on offense was to his little spot behind the three-point arc. He's a 6-11 legit frame you'd expect to get rebounds, but acted as though the paint was under quarantine. I understand some 6-11 players can hit jump shots and the three - more than ever before. Fine, take them, but having a 6-11 guy hanging around the perimeter defeats the purpose of having a guy like that. I can find 1,000 guys on the playground/college ranks/waiver wire/some strange offshoot pro league that can satisfy that role that are 6-2 to 6-4. I don't need my 6-11 guy who should have some muscle to be able to do the things you need a 6-11 guy to do.

And the worse thing was there was a half-season where they were cramming down our throats how great Charlie V was, how hard he was working and how well he was diversifying his game. That's what put Charlie V on my crap list. I'd hear this night after night, and instead of seeing what they were saying was happening was seeing someone who didn't want to be physical in the paint, was getting fewer rebounds than ever before, was prone to being mentally weak, showed no diversity to his game, was showing less effort and was doing one thing - looking for treys. And we were paying him a long term contract for good money to see that crap. Gosh, that's what just drove me up the wall. Charlie V became the symbolic player of what was all wrong with the Pistons, and a big part of it had to do they were really working on cramming how good he was to us during broadcasts, during pregame shows, during postgame shows and whenever Joe D or someone from the front office could say anything. They put the spotlight on him and it was a miserable failure. If they didn't do it, I might not have been smart enough to pick up on him as much as (at least I think) I have.

I still think he's a waste. I have no doubt he'll return to his mentally weak driven attitude down the road somewhere. But if he provides a role, and he creates value so we can get his butt out of Auburn Hills sooner, that's fine with me. Hey, it's not like anyone else is doing anything to plop his butt on the bench right now anyway. And that's pretty damning for those who can't.

**DTroppens** · 12-10-2012, 04:13 PM

Wow, I just noticed how long that post was and it just flowed on the keyboard so quickly too.

Okay, maybe I still have some Charlie V issues that need addressing. Admitting you have a problem is the first step, right?

**DTroppens** · 12-10-2012, 09:14 PM

I've missed all but about five minutes I heard on the radio in the fourth quarter. Pistons trail by two with 3:22left.

**DTroppens** · 12-10-2012, 09:14 PM

From what I heard it sounds like Monroe and Knight have had productive offensive nights.

**Buddha** · 12-10-2012, 09:49 PM

I don't care how unproductive he is, Drummond shouldn't be playing on 14 minutes.

**ScrubBeaterUpper** · 12-10-2012, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Buddha

I don't care how unproductive he is, Drummond shouldn't be playing on 14 minutes.

NO rebounds is a good reason to only play 14 minutes. Not even attempting to box out while Hawes grabs the board, and then staring at Hawes as he puts the ball back into the hoop, is plenty reason to bench him IMO.

Drummonds effort and motor are inconsistent, like his pre-draft critics said. It is just not as pronounced as they made it out to be.

**ScrubBeaterUpper** · 12-10-2012, 11:49 PM

Drummonds good nights are far outweighing his bad nights, but he has some real head scratching moments that NBA players do not have.

Still very raw.

**DTroppens** · 12-11-2012, 10:02 AM

I put on the replay, but I have to admit, I hardly watched the game.

**Deleterious** · 12-11-2012, 11:22 AM

I watched until someone shot a boring free throw, then I instantly turned it off.

**Deleterious** · 12-11-2012, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

I put on the replay, but I have to admit, I hardly watched the game.

You had as much interest in the game as Drummond did.

**DTroppens** · 12-11-2012, 12:47 PM

[QUOTE=Deleterious;2849942]You had as much interest in the game as Drummond did.[/QUOTE

That was actually the biggest reason I wanted to see the game. I saw Buddha's post, saw the box score and wanted to see what the heck happened to Drummond. But I had work to do on the computer and I knew the results of the game (saw or heard the fourth quarter), so it was tough to keep my attention on the game. It was like having the radio on.

**Deleterious** · 12-11-2012, 12:51 PM

3 games in 4 nights is what happened to Drummond. Tonight is the 4th in 5 nights. That is 2 weeks worth of games in college. Lets hope he can focus and fight through it a bit.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-11-2012, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

I watched until someone shot a boring free throw, then I instantly turned it off.

HA! I see you're still at it.

I thought this Pistons competed well, but down the stretch they looked tired. There were to key plays. I think it was 93-91, Stuckey drove down to the baseline just outside the paint, got stuck and ended up throwing it away to the sixers. The Sixers scored and then on the next possession Stuckey took an off balance deep 3 that wasn't close and then Philly scored again, game over. Stuckey has his moments, but as long as he has been in the NBA he has been a dreadful end of the game player. He gets a lot of opportunities and continually fails.

**Deleterious** · 12-11-2012, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

HA! I see you're still at it.

I thought this Pistons competed well, but down the stretch they looked tired. There were to key plays. I think it was 93-91, Stuckey drove down to the baseline just outside the paint, got stuck and ended up throwing it away to the sixers. The Sixers scored and then on the next possession Stuckey took an off balance deep 3 that wasn't close and then Philly scored again, game over. Stuckey has his moments, but as long as he has been in the NBA he has been a dreadful end of the game player. He gets a lot of opportunities and continually fails.

In the interest of fairness I should say this. The first 50 or so free throws were fine. I don't really find the first 50 or 60 free throws boring. Its just the last couple at the end of the game...

**MC24** · 12-11-2012, 03:24 PM

This team won't go anywhere with Knight at point. He's turning into another Stuckey. Doesn't know how to run an offense, get others involved, etc.

I hope we can unload Tay at the deadline. Dumars needs to get rid of him. Slows things down too much.

**DaBishop** · 12-11-2012, 04:26 PM

I don't like this "Drummond shows a lack of effort or doesnt' box out" and he gets benched for the rest of the game. Why the heck is Frank 'grounding' him like a petulant child. How about sit him down, ream him out for his poor play and then get him back on the court later in the game. I just don't understand that.

**ScrubBeaterUpper** · 12-11-2012, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by DaBishop

I don't like this "Drummond shows a lack of effort or doesnt' box out" and he gets benched for the rest of the game. Why the heck is Frank 'grounding' him like a petulant child. How about sit him down, ream him out for his poor play and then get him back on the court later in the game. I just don't understand that.

Fair point. Also worth discussing is whether he has NBA conditioning at this stage. That is something someone his size will have to see for himself before he undertstands the level of fitness he will need.

Monroe had the same issue, so I do not blame him or think he is lazy. Give Drummond some time