Game #58: Rockets Vs Pistons - 2/22/11

**Deleterious** · 02-22-2011, 01:40 AM

26-31 (11-18) @ 21-36 (14-15)

Live from the Palace of Auburn Hills

Game Info: 7:30 PM ET, February 22, 2011

TV:

Injury Report:

Houston: Courtney Lee - Questionable (Pneumonia). Yao Ming - Out (Ankle).

Detroit: Rip Hamilton - Questionable (Groin)

Season Series: Houston 1-0

12/7/10 - DET 83 HOU 97 | Recap | Shot Chart | Game Thread

Win Probability

45%

Team Stats

Team Four Factors

eFG% 0.500 (12th of 30)
TOV% 0.124 (1st of 30)
ORB% 0.267 (12th of 30)
FT/FGA 0.241 (6th of 30)

Team Leaders

Win Shares Kevin Martin 6.4
Minutes Per Game Luis Scola 33.5
Points Per Game Kevin Martin 23.0
Rebounds Per Game Luis Scola 8.4
Assists Per Game Kyle Lowry 6.4
Steals Per Game Kyle Lowry 1.5
Blocks Per Game Shane Battier 1.2

Team Four Factors

eFG% 0.486 (21st of 30)
TOV% 0.124 (2nd of 30)
ORB% 0.263 (15th of 30)
FT/FGA 0.209 (29th of 30)

Team Leaders

Win Shares Greg Monroe 3.1
Minutes Per Game Tayshaun Prince 33.5
Points Per Game Tayshaun Prince 14.6
Rebounds Per Game Greg Monroe 6.4
Assists Per Game Tracy McGrady 3.3
Steals Per Game Greg Monroe 0.9
Blocks Per Game Tayshaun Prince 0.6

**T&P_Fan** · 02-22-2011, 07:34 AM

So were not going to make any moves before the deadline are we del?

**Deleterious** · 02-22-2011, 08:05 AM

Sure doesn't look good, does it? I cant remember a trade deadline with less Piston rumors. Maybe that means something will actually happen?

I think the entire league was waiting on the Anthony deal. So maybe now things will take off now.

Anyone interested in Raymond Felton?

**T&P_Fan** · 02-22-2011, 09:08 AM

I would be interested in Felton, he is better than any option we have at PG and he is good shooter. Question becomes what is the cost. I guess we will see if Joe has room to make a move before Thursday, but I am just going to assume we wont make any moves.

**dalemotown** · 02-22-2011, 10:02 AM

Yeah, I'm afraid the Pistons are stuck with this roster - maybe I'm wrong...

Tay has been dropping little provocative statements, perhaps to remind Joe he's hoping to be traded; but the fact is Tay's expiring deal probably has more value to the Pistons, than trading for a mid-level player, with multiple years.

...Rip?...they're gonna have to buy him out. No one wants Rip - not for anything of value.

**Deleterious** · 02-22-2011, 10:11 AM

Unfortunately, his expiring contract has almost no value to the Pistons.

**DTroppens** · 02-22-2011, 10:23 AM

I read a story about the Pistons most likely to move, and it wasn't encouraging. I think it had Prince at No. 1, but he already has an expiring contract. Rip was next but who wants him? Then there were the rest - McGrady, Wilcox and Summers.

I don't see much happening with that list. Even Prince - with the ownership thing in flux, I don't see them getting rid of Prince for anything with any great commitment of years.

Honestly, I was hoping there was a strong desire for teams to get Maxiell.

**Deleterious** · 02-22-2011, 10:25 AM

We need Joe to get fired and land a new job with another team. Maybe then someone would be interested in all of our players.

**dalemotown** · 02-22-2011, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Unfortunately, his expiring contract has almost no value to the Pistons.

??....reduction-of-cap for '11-'12??....

...the money can be spent to bolster another position, since Daye and Jerebko are the future at the 3-spot....OH, WAIT: Joe's making that decision? Never mind LOL

**DTroppens** · 02-22-2011, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

We need Joe to get fired and land a new job with another team. Maybe then someone would be interested in all of our players.

Now that's an idea.

**Deleterious** · 02-22-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by dalemotown

??....reduction-of-cap for '11-'12??....

...the money can be spent to bolster another position, since Daye and Jerebko are the future at the 3-spot....OH, WAIT: Joe's making that decision? Never mind LOL

If the Pistons let Prince walk, they will have $7-$9 million in cap space, depending on what they do with a few other guys like Summers, Jerebko, etc.

Now assume they traded Prince for a guy making exactly the same money, but a longer contract. They would be eligible for the MLE which is $6 million. So they would have $6 million in cap space.

So the difference in letting him walk is only $1-$3 million in cap space. Because you dont get to use your cap space + the MLE. You only get to use whichever one is greater.

Thats why I said flipping Prince for something of value was so big. Possibly the most important part of the rebuild. They could have obtained a player or players worth his contract, plus had the chance to use the MLE in the off season.

**Deleterious** · 02-22-2011, 02:37 PM

Looks like none of that will matter.

Joe Dumars wants Tayshaun Prince back with Pistons | detnews.com | The Detroit News

Joe Dumars wants Tayshaun Prince back with Pistons
Terry Foster / The Detroit News
Auburn Hills — Pistons president Joe Dumars said Tuesday he wants to begin talks to sign Tayshaun Prince to a new contract once the season is done.

That is if Prince isn't dealt before Thursday's 3 p.m. trade deadline — and all indications point to Prince remaining a Piston for the final 25 games of the season.

Prince, 30, has said he wants to remain a Piston but would not be opposed to being traded to an NBA title contender. But Dumars hopes Prince remains with the Pistons and said he will trade him only if presented with an unbelievable deal.

Prince is in the final year of his contract; his salary this season is $11.1 million.

"I would," Dumars said when asked if he would like Prince to return next season. "And we've talked about that. Tayshaun has been good here for a long time so I absolutely want to have that conversation at some point."

Prince doesn't think he'll be traded

"It was brought up that if I could go to a team where I could win, my answer was yes," Prince said. "But at the same time, if it did not pan out, of course I would want to finish the final 25 games. I've been through the good times and the bad times. I never once walked in there (to Dumars' office) and said I've got to go. I've struck through the thick and thin."

Dumars said he has been given permission to make trades, despite the possible sale of the team soon. But it is believed he cannot make a trade for a player with a long-term contract or a high salary. He is allowed to trade for draft picks and expiring contracts.

"There are some parameters for us to make a deal," Dumars said. "Yes, I can make a deal, but it has to fit within the parameters."

Dumars said he has had trade talks with many teams over the past few weeks, but added, "Now we don't have a deal to pull the trigger on."

Dumars said he doesn't know if the team will trade Richard Hamilton. He refused comment about the strained relationship between Hamilton and coach John Kuester.

"As I've said before, I will deal with that stuff privately," Dumars said.

Please fire Joe before he has a shot at making such a huge mistake.

**dalemotown** · 02-22-2011, 04:07 PM

Joe's got 2004 stuck up his channel. He's delusional.

Some here mentioned they were afraid he was gonna try to hang on to Tay - for yet another contract.

Idiocy. Absurdity. Get over 2004 - it's OVER.
This team - especially in this market - may never be relevant, again.

**Deleterious** · 02-22-2011, 04:42 PM

Twitter

Tayshaun Prince: "I'm not going anywhere". Q: So you are not being traded? Prince: "No". Q: How do you know? Prince: "Cuz I know"

Maybe Prince doesn't know about all the contending teams that want him.

Also, a little talk about a buyout for Rip. I find it hard to believe with 2 years left, but I guess stranger things have happened.

Richard Hamilton taking a buyout to join the Celtics is realistic, says Marc Spears PistonPowered

**Truth** · 02-22-2011, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

I read a story about the Pistons most likely to move, and it wasn't encouraging. I think it had Prince at No. 1, but he already has an expiring contract. Rip was next but who wants him? Then there were the rest - McGrady, Wilcox and Summers.

I don't see much happening with that list. Even Prince - with the ownership thing in flux, I don't see them getting rid of Prince for anything with any great commitment of years.

Honestly, I was hoping there was a strong desire for teams to get Maxiell.

It's not that nobody wants Rip, it's his contract. I don't think they could trade CV or Gordon either. But they should.

**Truth** · 02-22-2011, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by dalemotown

Joe's got 2004 stuck up his channel. He's delusional.

Some here mentioned they were afraid he was gonna try to hang on to Tay - for yet another contract.

Idiocy. Absurdity. Get over 2004 - it's OVER.
This team - especially in this market - may never be relevant, again.

Generally speaking I think Prince is a good guy, with an above average basketball IQ. If the team actually had some worthy pieces it wouldn't be bad to have him around as a mentor. That not being the case, I agree, it's absurd to keep him. What's more absurd is that Dumars seems to think that Prince would want to stay in Detroit. I have to believe that both TMac and Prince, at this stage in their careers, can't wait to get out and look for a role on a contending team.

**Hart** · 02-22-2011, 06:28 PM

I wish we could trade Rip, Gordon, and Stuckey and then draft a shooting guard.

In all honesty, out of those three, I think I think I like Rip the best. If there is anybody willing to take on Gordon, we should trade him now before it is too late.

**Hart** · 02-22-2011, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Truth

Generally speaking I think Prince is a good guy, with an above average basketball IQ. If the team actually had some worthy pieces it wouldn't be bad to have him around as a mentor. That not being the case, I agree, it's absurd to keep him. What's more absurd is that Dumars seems to think that Prince would want to stay in Detroit. I have to believe that both TMac and Prince, at this stage in their careers, can't wait to get out and look for a role on a contending team.

This is how see things as well. Prince is having the best year of his career and it would be nice to keep him around but given our situation, it makes absolutely no sense at all not to trade him.

**Buddha** · 02-22-2011, 07:42 PM

i love Houston. the most efficient team that will never win ****.

**Hart** · 02-22-2011, 08:14 PM

Really hoping to see Monroe step up his rebounding these last 25 games. It has been weak lately and I want to see a strong finish.

**EatEmUpTigers711** · 02-23-2011, 02:43 AM

Just checked the box score. Nice to see Prince with such a monster game after the stories about Joe D wanting to re-sign him hit the papers today....

1 Point, 1 Rebound in 30 minutes of play....

And speaking of Monroe & his rebounds, he had 12 Points & 12 boards in 27 minutes tonight. Not too bad.

**dalemotown** · 02-23-2011, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by EatEmUpTigers711

Just checked the box score. Nice to see Prince with such a monster game after the stories about Joe D wanting to re-sign him hit the papers today....

1 Point, 1 Rebound in 30 minutes of play....

LOL - nice!

Prince is ready to move on. Joe's not. It's that simple. "Long live 2004!"

**T&P_Fan** · 02-23-2011, 10:41 AM

What a meltdown at the end last night. Pistons were up 94-93 at one point. Just another loss. Lottery bound for sure this year.

**dalemotown** · 02-23-2011, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Lottery bound for sure this year.

There was a time that would be a very exciting consolation prize....

But unless you suck bad enough to pick in the top 3-4 picks, you can expect more Darren Dayes and Greg Monroes: pretty-good-but-not-great players.

**DetroitCity313** · 02-23-2011, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by dalemotown

There was a time that would be a very exciting consolation prize....

But unless you suck bad enough to pick in the top 3-4 picks, you can expect more Darren Dayes and Greg Monroes: pretty-good-but-not-great players.

If we get another Greg Monroe in the post we will be improving greatly. It may not be the most exciting of picks, but I think building a base of solid young players is just as important as getting that one superstar. And really, every year their are one or two players in the 8-14 range who end up being all-stars or close to all-stars at some point in their careers. And the top 3 pick is not a gaurantee of a superstar. Look at guys like Beasley, Thabeet, Harden, Oden for top 3 picks who have not been superstars and probably wont be superstars.

**DTroppens** · 02-23-2011, 11:12 AM

Eh,
we've seen last night's game about 10 times before this year.

**DTroppens** · 02-23-2011, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Truth

It's not that nobody wants Rip, it's his contract. I don't think they could trade CV or Gordon either. But they should.

I know. It's why I wouldn't want him. I quit looking at that link with all the Pistons locked in contracts just out of sheer depression seeing who is locked in for how long for how much. Rip's contract is the one that may put you over the edge.

Of course Charlie V's doesn't make you feel very good either, maybe worse than Rip's.

**DetroitCity313** · 02-23-2011, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

I know. It's why I wouldn't want him. I quit looking at that link with all the Pistons locked in contracts just out of sheer depression seeing who is locked in for how long for how much. Rip's contract is the one that may put you over the edge.

Of course Charlie V's doesn't make you feel very good either, maybe worse than Rip's.

On the bright side this is another year off his contract, we will be able to trade him eventually.

**DTroppens** · 02-23-2011, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Truth

Generally speaking I think Prince is a good guy, with an above average basketball IQ. If the team actually had some worthy pieces it wouldn't be bad to have him around as a mentor. That not being the case, I agree, it's absurd to keep him. What's more absurd is that Dumars seems to think that Prince would want to stay in Detroit. I have to believe that both TMac and Prince, at this stage in their careers, can't wait to get out and look for a role on a contending team.

If anyone had value of the old core or of the vets here, it's Prince. The problem is because everyone else is so locked in, it makes it nearly impossible to keep him. It's hard to see how you are going to open money for "the future" anywhere else because I can't see anyone else taking those contracts from the Pistons to open up other money. So, it makes Prince, who is probably the most attractive of the holdovers, the easiest to let go to get the next "era" started.

So when you hear Dumars saying he wants to keep him, you understand why, but realize the reality of the situation makes you yell "No, you can't keep him."

It's amazing how screwed up this team and its contracts are.

**DetroitCity313** · 02-23-2011, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

If anyone had value of the old core or of the vets here, it's Prince. The problem is because everyone else is so locked in, it makes it nearly impossible to keep him. It's hard to see how you are going to open money for "the future" anywhere else because I can't see anyone else taking those contracts from the Pistons to open up other money. So, it makes Prince, who is probably the most attractive of the holdovers, the easiest to let go to get the next "era" started.

So when you hear Dumars saying he wants to keep him, you understand why, but realize the reality of the situation makes you yell "No, you can't keep him."

It's amazing how screwed up this team and its contracts are.

I am suprised we cant get someone of value for Prince. He has an expiring contract, has had a very good year, is a proven winner and does not require a team to change their entire offense or defense to implement him. I really thought we could deal him to a contender.

**Deleterious** · 02-23-2011, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

It's amazing how screwed up this team and its contracts are.

Cap management is almost as important as identifying talent nowdays.

**dalemotown** · 02-23-2011, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

.......every year their are one or two players in the 8-14 range who end up being all-stars or close to all-stars at some point in their careers. And the top 3 pick is not a gaurantee of a superstar. Look at guys like Beasley, Thabeet, Harden, Oden for top 3 picks who have not been superstars and probably wont be superstars.

Sure, it's not impossible to get what turns out to be a premium player between 8 and 14...

....Question: who's our G.M.?....

....Right.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-23-2011, 01:42 PM

Think Big Ben retires after this year? Also I think having Jerebko back next year will help. I was really looking forward to watching his progress this year, didnt even last a preseason quarter.

**DetroitCity313** · 02-23-2011, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by dalemotown

Sure, it's not impossible to get what turns out to be a premium player between 8 and 14...

....Question: who's our G.M.?....

....Right.

Our GM has not made bad mid-first round picks, he has made bad early round picks.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-23-2011, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

Our GM has not made bad mid-first round picks, he has made bad early round picks.

Yes he has. Specifically 09. We needed a point guard, still do, but Joe passed on Darren Collison and Ty Lawson because he was convinced Stuckey was the PG of the future (he was the only one). Instead he drafted a taller and weaker Tayshaun in Austin Daye.

**Nastradamus** · 02-23-2011, 02:37 PM

Prince would be smart to hold on to IMO, as he is so versatile and experienced. He can be a leader for this team. Daye and he can share the SF spot IMO. Jerebko is not a SF, maybe part time. He can't score,shoot or handle enough to play SF regularly and many SFs are too athletic for him to guard. He's better off as a 4. He can defend many 4s, especially as a backup(25 minute guy) and his shooting and handling are a strength there as opposed to a weakness. He provides a matchup problem as opposed to the other way around at the 3. His shot is improving so he can play a strech 4 role even better. He'll never score quite as much as a Charlie V can, but his defense and effort more than make up for it. I like the idea of Monroe starting at the 4(I see him as a Gasol type player, not that they are equal by any means), a big C like Perkins starting at the 5 and Jerebko being the 3rd man in the rotation, coming in at the 4 often times and moving Monroe to the 5. Monroe has the potential to give us a big, length frontcourt that we can use to our advantage against many other teams that can't match that size. The same way it is for the Lakers with 7 foot Gasol at the 4.

**Nastradamus** · 02-23-2011, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Yes he has. Specifically 09. We needed a point guard, still do, but Joe passed on Darren Collison and Ty Lawson because he was convinced Stuckey was the PG of the future (he was the only one). Instead he drafted a taller and weaker Tayshaun in Austin Daye.

First of all, neither Collison or Lawson has been that good. Collison was made by that NO system and has struggled in Indy. He's talented on the dribble drive, but he can't shoot or defend very well. He's not a title caliber PG by any means. Right now neither is better than Stuckey despite being more "pure PGs". Its hard to say right now, but I find it hard to believe that Daye will end up looking like a mistake. Like it or not, we had just taken Stuckey the year before. Giving up on him, especially after dealing Chauncey, made little sense. Stuckey,Afflalo,Jerebko,Daye and Monroe were all very good value the last 3 years in the draft IMO. Summers and White have potential too.

**Nastradamus** · 02-23-2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Think Big Ben retires after this year? Also I think having Jerebko back next year will help. I was really looking forward to watching his progress this year, didnt even last a preseason quarter.

We'd be a different team if he had played IMO. We don't have anyone who brings his intensity,effort and defense in the frontcourt other than the aging Ben. He could have had us in the 8 spot probably, which we aren't that far out of.

**Betrayer** · 02-23-2011, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Yes he has. Specifically 09. We needed a point guard, still do, but Joe passed on Darren Collison and Ty Lawson because he was convinced Stuckey was the PG of the future (he was the only one). Instead he drafted a taller and weaker Tayshaun in Austin Daye.

Let's also not forget that DeJuan Blair fell in that draft and was right in his lap...but he picked Summers instead. That's the difference between a good GM and a bad one. San Antonio just keeps rolling along without missing a beat.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 02-23-2011, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

I am suprised we cant get someone of value for Prince. He has an expiring contract, has had a very good year, is a proven winner and does not require a team to change their entire offense or defense to implement him. I really thought we could deal him to a contender.

The Pistons probably could get something of value for Prince, but Joe isn't interested in dealing Tayshaun. So they will get nothing for him and let him walk or sign him to an extention, which will only serve to prolong the time before the rebuild starts.