Game#5: Pistons Vs Hawks - 11/3/10

**Euphdude** · 11-03-2010, 09:33 PM

The trade window for Prince and Hamilton has come and gone. We'll never know if Dumars was really serious about trading either -- my guess is he overvalued both players when they were at the peak of their value. Now Hamilton has an albatross of a contract and Prince looks so unmotivated on the court that he's killing any decent value he had.

**Deleterious** · 11-03-2010, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cecil

Why not just keep his expiring contract? Then again it's Dumars spending the money.

They wont gain anything from Prince expiring. Maybe a million or two, but thats about it. Better to flip him for value if you can.

**Euphdude** · 11-03-2010, 09:36 PM

Kuester could be on the hot seat early this season if this keeps up. If he does get canned this year I wonder if any other GM in NBA history would had fired so many coaches during a 5 year time span as Dumars.

**Elevate** · 11-03-2010, 09:39 PM

Dumars should trade Kuester for a 2nd round draft pick.

**DTroppens** · 11-03-2010, 09:39 PM

Atlanta only had three offensive boards tonight. Conversely, the Pistons grabbed about 1/3rd of the boards on their shots tonight.

I'm going to have to watch this game over I guess. Just seeing Monroe playing meaningful minutes will make it worth it.

**Cecil** · 11-03-2010, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

They wont gain anything from Prince expiring. Maybe a million or two, but thats about it. Better to flip him for value if you can.

I don't understand the NBA salary structure. Why would another team get more cap space from his expiring deal than Detroit?

**Deleterious** · 11-03-2010, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Euphdude

Kuester could be on the hot seat early this season if this keeps up. If he does get canned this year I wonder if any other GM in NBA history would had fired so many coaches during a 5 year time span as Dumars.

I wonder how safe his job is, with the pending sale and all.

**DTroppens** · 11-03-2010, 09:41 PM

Hey, Bloodsport is on Vs. for the 40,000th time in the last six months.

**EatEmUpTigers711** · 11-03-2010, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Elevate

Dumars should trade Kuester for a 2nd round draft pick.

Too much....probably only looking at getting a busted ball rack back for him at this point, but I'd still take that deal any day of the week.

**Deleterious** · 11-03-2010, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Cecil

I don't understand the NBA salary structure. Why would another team get more cap space from his expiring deal than Detroit?

It depends where you start basically. His deal is wroth about $11 million. If you are a team right on the salary cap ($58 million) and you let him expire, you will get the full $11 in cap space. So if your team salary is say $64 million and he expires you only get $5 million in cap space, not the full $11 million.

The Pistons salary next year without Prince is right around $50 million. If the cap stays at $58 million and they let Prince expire they will have $8 million in cap space.

So lets say they trade Prince for another player that makes $11 million but doesn't expire this summer. Their salary will be around $61 million but they will still get to use the MLE which is right around $6 million. So by letting Prince expire, they really only get $2 million in cap space.

**drownwithyou** · 11-03-2010, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Hey, Bloodsport is on Vs. for the 40,000th time in the last six months.

My 10th grade English teacher did the soundtrack for that movie!

**Deleterious** · 11-03-2010, 09:53 PM

Twitter / Vincent Goodwill: #Pistons Kuester calls Stu ...

#Pistons Kuester calls Stuckey, Stuckey doesn't respond...Kuester calls DaJuan Summers to replace him...what is going on here

Grab some popcorn folks.

**Cecil** · 11-03-2010, 09:58 PM

As much as I don't like Kuester, this is another reason why I'm starting to hate the NBA. Who the hell does Stuckey think he is?

**Elevate** · 11-03-2010, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

It depends where you start basically. His deal is wroth about $11 million. If you are a team right on the salary cap ($58 million) and you let him expire, you will get the full $11 in cap space. So if your team salary is say $64 million and he expires you only get $5 million in cap space, not the full $11 million.

The Pistons salary next year without Prince is right around $50 million. If the cap stays at $58 million and they let Prince expire they will have $8 million in cap space.

So lets say they trade Prince for another player that makes $11 million but doesn't expire this summer. Their salary will be around $61 million but they will still get to use the MLE which is right around $6 million. So by letting Prince expire, they really only get $2 million in cap space.

Thanks for that breakdown. It all makes a lot more sense now.

So basically... they need to trade him! If Dumars fails to see this, it's just another putrid feather in his cap of failures as a GM.

Prince definitely has value, he could be a championship team's 4th or 5th best player. But he isn't a #2 and that's what he is as a Piston. They need to trade Prince for a young player with upside who has fallen out of favor with his current team and a draft pick.

**ScrubBeaterUpper** · 11-03-2010, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

They wont gain anything from Prince expiring. Maybe a million or two, but thats about it. Better to flip him for value if you can.

(Edit, nevermind, you explained further)

Maybe I am missing something.

I think those numbers are assuming a Stuckey extension. If we don't, then we have only 44 million tied up in 9 players. Jerebko getting injured this year, will save us some money resigning him in the offseason i think. He would be our 10th player under contract. Lotto pick would probably give us 11 players for under or around 50 million. If we resign Stuckey to a Conley deal, then we are totally stuck(ey). But I am not so sure anymore about that.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 11-03-2010, 10:12 PM

Almost got to 100 posts in this game thread. I think the century mark could be hit again.

**DTroppens** · 11-03-2010, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

Almost got to 100 posts in this game thread. I think the century mark could be hit again.

Maybe we should artificially make it get over 100.

I'm not sure how much I'll be here Friday night. The Chips play Western Michigan, so that game is taking precidence.

**drownwithyou** · 11-03-2010, 10:21 PM

+1 for 100 posts?

Can anyone think of one positive thing about the Pistons right now?

**EatEmUpTigers711** · 11-03-2010, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Maybe we should artificially make it get over 100.

I'm not sure how much I'll be here Friday night. The Chips play Western Michigan, so that game is taking precidence.

Friday night game thread, for a crappy Pistons team.....

I'd say about 30 posts could be considered a phenomenal turnout.

**Cecil** · 11-03-2010, 10:25 PM

I remember when I used to have things to do on a Friday night.

**DTroppens** · 11-03-2010, 10:30 PM

Garnett and Bogut almost got into a bit of a scuffle.
Boston within two points with 2:26 left.

**Elevate** · 11-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

Can anyone think of one positive thing about the Pistons right now?

The draft is only 231 days away!

**drownwithyou** · 11-03-2010, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Elevate

The draft is only 231 days away!

Ask people around here if that is a positive if Dumars stays

**EatEmUpTigers711** · 11-03-2010, 10:42 PM

I'll one up your positive....

The season will be over in 154 days.

**Elevate** · 11-03-2010, 10:43 PM

I don't think I want him. The upcoming draft appears to be a crap shoot that will take a keen eye for talent evaluation and I don't think Dumars possesses that skill.

**drownwithyou** · 11-03-2010, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by EatEmUpTigers711

I'll one up your positive....

The season will be over in 154 days.

We may have a winner.

**Truth** · 11-03-2010, 10:49 PM

A sampling of the hits when googling Detroit Pistons lose to Hawks.

Pistons lose to Hawks, fall to 0-5 for first time since 1980 ...

Pistons lose their fifth staright as Hawks soar past them with ...

Pistons remain winless with 94-85 loss to Hawks

Pistons Lose Game Number 5 to the Hawks

**DrWho17** · 11-03-2010, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Did Stuckey get hurt or is he just not playing? I have been flipping back and forth to the maple leafs game.

He was pulled by the coach. I think Kuester is trying to break him, he was pulled 3 minutes into the second half and never returned. Gordon and Prince were both shaking their heads when he was pulled (just after he hit a jumper over Bibby). Stuckey told him off last game, and probably got lippy this game.

**drownwithyou** · 11-03-2010, 11:07 PM

And apparently refused to go back into the game.

**DrWho17** · 11-03-2010, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Atlanta shot 54% from the field tonight.

Yea, Mateen's halftime analysis was talking about the Pistons great defense. Never knew that great defense meant layup after layup.

**DrWho17** · 11-03-2010, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Atlanta only had three offensive boards tonight. Conversely, the Pistons grabbed about 1/3rd of the boards on their shots tonight.

I'm going to have to watch this game over I guess. Just seeing Monroe playing meaningful minutes will make it worth it.

Monroe looks pretty good I think for his second game. Had some good passes, made a couple of shots, some hustle plays and some good tough rebounds.

**DrWho17** · 11-03-2010, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

And apparently refused to go back into the game.

No it was when he was in the game, and he was ignoring Kuester. He got pulled and they put Summers in.

**Johnny Mac** · 11-03-2010, 11:19 PM

Man, not a good week for Stuckey, learning we are not giving him an extension (although he probably would like to get out of here) and now getting benched. I at one point thought he may develop into a player, but he is just another one of Dumars bad draft picks it seems.

**drownwithyou** · 11-03-2010, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

No it was when he was in the game, and he was ignoring Kuester. He got pulled and they put Summers in.

Ahhh from what I heard he was on the bench and didn't respond when he was supposed to go in. Interesting.

**Deleterious** · 11-04-2010, 12:16 AM

I kinda agree with Dan Feldman over at PP.

Detroit Pistons chaos watch falls from high to sort of high – PistonPowered

Maybe this was a misunderstanding, but if Stuckey was pouting, he needs to take a lesson from Tayshaun Prince. You think anyone will take Stuckey’s side after the Pistons reasonably played well without him?

Stuckey kinda screwed himself here.

**Betrayer** · 11-04-2010, 12:19 AM

Funny thing is I'm not sure who's side to be on here.

-I don't like players who don't respect the coach.
-I don't like the idea of multiple players throwing the coach under the bus to try to put all the blame on him and get him fired.
-At the same time, some of their complaints may be right, and Q is not a good coach.
-But then again, these players are not doing their part either.

Is Joe sitting back in a chair somewhere rubbing his hands together and laughing maniacally for having created this monster? This team he's put together is so mismatched I can't imagine another GM on the planet creating such a Frankenstein unless they were literally trying as hard as they could to ruin a franchise.

**Deleterious** · 11-04-2010, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by ScrubBeaterUpper

(Edit, nevermind, you explained further)

Maybe I am missing something.

I think those numbers are assuming a Stuckey extension. If we don't, then we have only 44 million tied up in 9 players. Jerebko getting injured this year, will save us some money resigning him in the offseason i think. He would be our 10th player under contract. Lotto pick would probably give us 11 players for under or around 50 million. If we resign Stuckey to a Conley deal, then we are totally stuck(ey). But I am not so sure anymore about that.

Unfortunately those numbers just assume a qualifying offer for Stuckey. It gets even worse if they extend him. Here is my spreadsheet I am working off.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...3c&hl=en#gid=0

You should be able to view it. If not, let me know and I will change some permissions.

2011/2012 is missing 2 roster charges. I don't know how much it will be under the new CBA. I imagine right around the same $473,604 as this year. So add another million or so on to my final number. Also, I am obviously guessing where their draft pick will be. That number will go up or down based on where they select.