NHL CBA negotiations

**T&P_Fan** · 07-16-2012, 06:42 PM

NHL's first CBA offer to NHLPA reportedly features big givebacks - ESPN

The NHL has made their first off for a new CBA to the players. The owners came with an offer that heavily favors them, but this is no surprise. This will begin the back and forth of getting a deal done. NHL revenue is up, so players will be expecting a little compromise.

I do like the initial dialog of contract lengths. 5 years is the first offer, which I am sure will get adjusted, but I am hopeful the days of these 10-13 year contracts are over with.

What changes would anyone else like to see?

**drownwithyou** · 07-16-2012, 07:15 PM

They definitely need to address these long long term contracts. I'd also say they should do something about the situation where Radulov was allowed to come over for the Predators in the playoffs.

**lordstanley** · 07-16-2012, 07:59 PM

The Forbes magazine report on team values across major sports leagues is the talk of the town on Canadian sports radio today. A few soundbites:

- the average NHL franchise value has risen by almost 50% since the lockout
- Leafs most valuable franchise at $550mm; Wings 7th
- NHL revenue increasing by around 5% per year
- however expenses are going up by a higher rate. Due to player salaries. I believe (I'll try to find a link in the Forbes site specific to the NHL) that Forbes recommends that player salaries be brought down to the 48-49% of revenues level to be in line with other leagues and that the owners will hone in on this during negotiations

Manchester United Tops The World's 50 Most Valuable Sports Teams - Forbes

**drownwithyou** · 07-16-2012, 08:16 PM

Thanks for the link stanley, very interesting.

**mr0zip0** · 08-24-2012, 03:16 AM

If there is another NHL lockout, I'm officially done with hockey.

It is fun to watch hockey, don't get me wrong. And the excitement of playoff hockey is unlike any other sport. But the way that this league screws its fans over in every facet of the game, from rule changes to ridiculous TV contracts to spin the number wheel suspensions to sporatic officiating to Gary Bettman's ******* decisions to labor holdouts almost every time the CBA on the table ends... The list goes on and on and it is truly ridiculous.

I was 10 when the NHL locked out in 2004. It was the first time a league had ever been locked out in my sports life, I was young, and I really didn't get what was so important that it was worth cancelling an entire season for.

I'm almost 18 now. I still don't understand the benefits of a lockout. NO ONE GAINS ANYTHING. No one makes money, no player plays hockey, no fan watches hockey. What the f*** does anyone possibly gain? More money in the future? So we'll sacrifice 100% of our money now to maybe get one or two percent more for the next five years?

If a deal can be reached after we lose hundreds of games, a deal can be reached now. Everyone is just too greedy to compromise.

Last NHL lockout as an example... What was gained? Some new dumb rules.... And that's it.

What was lost? Millions of fans, millions of dollars, an ESPN contract and all the sports coverage that comes with it, and in general, American interest in hockey. Before 2004, people cared. Now? "Oh yeah, hockey, that sport that Canada likes. Didn't we do good at it in the Olympics?"

It's time for NHL and NHLPA officials to grow up and act like they are still one of the major American sports.

**Euphdude** · 08-24-2012, 09:04 AM

It's essentially billionaires fighting with millionaires, and as a result the "purity" of the sport has been diluted. Personally I'd rather see more money go to the players.

**dadair6** · 08-24-2012, 10:22 AM

I normally side with owners in labor disputes, but I'm with the players in this one. In 2004 the league wiped out an entire season and the owners got everything they wanted. Since then the league has seen parity, for better or worse, revenues increase and a nice little TV package where the league actually gets rights fees. Now they're crying poverty again? I don't think so. Their offer of a 19% decrease to players salaries and 10 year free agency is laughable. The only point I agree with is the 5 year contract limit. But a couple weeks after their contract proposal was given to the players Philly offers Hartnell a 6 year deal. Seriously?

The players offer was a legitimate counter-offer. It kept the salary cap, reduced players shares and offered the owners a revenue sharing method the owners could adopt. I thought it was a fair first offer yet the owners took less than a day to dismiss it in its entirety. I'm sorry, but the owners aren't offering any workable solutions. They're like a petulent little kid.

**lordstanley** · 08-29-2012, 01:20 PM

I agree with Dadair, I usually side with the owners or with neither, but in this case the owners have been especially arrogant and inflexible, as well as dismissive of both players and fans. However, I do think yesterday's proposal by the owners was finally a breakthrough. While there will be still be lots of back and forth, there is now hope that there'll be a settlement that avoids any missed games. Worst case, IMO, they cancel Oct. and November.

**drownwithyou** · 08-29-2012, 05:22 PM

I thought I saw someone say that the owners' latest proposal was just their original one, but changed around to seem new. Is that not correct?

I have a feeling we're headed towards another lockout. I wouldn't be surprised if we lost another season.

**Walt** · 08-29-2012, 11:30 PM

I hate the idea of a lockout, but i will watch it when they come back. Also, since I live in St Paul, a lockout would be almost comical.

**dadair6** · 08-30-2012, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

I thought I saw someone say that the owners' latest proposal was just their original one, but changed around to seem new. Is that not correct?

I have a feeling we're headed towards another lockout. I wouldn't be surprised if we lost another season.

From the articles I read yesterday the owners upped the players percentage of revenues from 43 to 46, but reduced the pool of money applicable that percentage.

**lordstanley** · 08-30-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by dadair6

From the articles I read yesterday the owners upped the players percentage of revenues from 43 to 46, but reduced the pool of money applicable that percentage.

The owners upped their offer, but still is a big drop from the current system. The owners increase from 43 to 46 in the new offer is real, but by re-defining what is included in "hockey-related revenue" the owners had tried to say the players would be getting 50% or more.

**lordstanley** · 09-01-2012, 03:37 PM

So much for optimism. The players' proposal/response yesterday was not helpful towards reaching a settlement. Not that they're not justified in digging in, given how the owners were the big winners in the last lockout in getting their cap. But I was hoping either the players or owners would cave or at least act pragmatically and that doesn't appear imminent. The owners will lose the p.r. battle this time but billionaires typically don't worry about p.r. when hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake.

**Euphdude** · 09-01-2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by lordstanley

So much for optimism. The players' proposal/response yesterday was not helpful towards reaching a settlement. Not that they're not justified in digging in, given how the owners were the big winners in the last lockout in getting their cap. But I was hoping either the players or owners would cave or at least act pragmatically and that doesn't appear imminent. The owners will lose the p.r. battle this time but billionaires typically don't worry about p.r. when hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake.

Not when its customers will return regardless of what happens, which is part of what makes sports such a unique business.

**lordstanley** · 09-15-2012, 11:41 PM

Lockout a few hours away. Losers!

I greet it with a big yawn. I love hockey. But I have other pasttimes and entertainment options. NFL, MLB, running, time with the family, reading, etc.

**PuNk42AE** · 09-15-2012, 11:49 PM

I've always ranked my preference of the 4 major sports as MLB-->NFL-->NHL-->NBA. I doubt it will move the NBA into 3rd, but I find it just asinine that they couldn't have avoided this knowing what happened 5 years ago.

**PuNk42AE** · 09-16-2012, 12:07 AM

And the Lockout is on....

**Lousluggage** · 09-16-2012, 11:27 AM

Time to look at the college schedules... luckily there are a lot of strong hockey programs around here.

**hail2mich** · 09-16-2012, 11:51 AM

Datsyuk, Malkin, and Kovalchuk are headed to the KHL.

**Shinma** · 09-16-2012, 12:13 PM

I'm so friggin mad right now. I mean, come on.

I might done with the NHL. I can tell you one thing.. from now on, the NHL get $0 from me. Forever. No more buying tickets, hats, jerseys, video-games, NOTHING. Not NHL gamecenter/center ice.

The NHL will not see a since nickel of revenue from me for a VERY long time.

**PuNk42AE** · 09-16-2012, 12:58 PM

I keep seeing the commercial for the new NHL game, I love how the lights go dark during the live action of hockey before showing the game play. Wonder if that was semi-intentional and a dig?

**lordstanley** · 09-26-2012, 12:31 AM

A terribly flawed study/article on the potential impact of the NHL lockout on a city's revenues. By my quick 'n dirty calculation I believe the impact to the city would be approx 10-20% at most of what this economist is estimating (perhaps the headline writer is misinterpreting the economist's findings).

Economist: No Red Wings games played this season would mean estimated $84.4 million loss for the city | MLive.com

**lordstanley** · 10-16-2012, 05:43 PM

CANOE -- SLAM! Sports - NHL - NHL offers players 50-50 split

In a surprising reversal of position after weeks of blather on both sides, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman on Tuesday delivered a new prosposal to the union, designed to preserve an 82-game schedule and full playoffs that would start Nov. 2. The key tenet is a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenue, the thorniest issue in the month-long lockout.

"We very much want to preserve a full season and in that light we delivered an offer, our best shot," Bettman said after an hour meeting with his deputy Bill Daly and the P.A.'s top guns, Donald and Steve Fehr. "This offer is contingent upon an 82-game season ... it's 50-50 across the board.

Donald Fehr, the union's executive director, admitted he was taken aback when Bettman handed him the proposal, which would be at least six years in length. But he had to temper the optimism that swept the lobby of the players' Toronto offices, by remimnding his team has yet to review the offer in its entirety.

"It's not short," Fehr joked. "There are still documents we have to wade through. We have to make sure we understand what it means. But our hope on the players' side is after we review this that there will be a feeling that this is a proposal where we can try and reach a conclusion. I'd like to believe this is an excellent starting point."

**drownwithyou** · 10-17-2012, 03:16 AM

Darren DregerVerified
‏@DarrenDreger
NHLPA conf call has ended. Nothing certain, but a counter proposal is expected in next 24-48 hrs.

**drownwithyou** · 10-17-2012, 04:05 PM

Just got a text from ESPN and Fehr says that the offer results in "enormous reductions in player salaries."

I figured that there was sneaky/bad stuff for the players behind the 50/50 split and 82 game season. I'm almost to the point where I don't care if they come to a decision.

**Lousluggage** · 10-17-2012, 06:24 PM

I've now got plans to see the Monarchs next month and at least a couple of college level games so I'll enjoy myself whether they come to an agreement or not... but I can't stop smh. At the very least I'm thinking there are a lot of people who earn a chunk of their living from the NHL (a son of my coworker works at the Boston Garden, for example) so even if I were to stop caring about games I still hope they agree on something.

**lordstanley** · 10-17-2012, 07:06 PM

Inside A Secret NHL Focus Group: How A Top GOP Strategist Is Helping Hockey Owners Craft Their Lockout Propaganda

You're going to hear a lot about "shared sacrifice" from the NHL in the days and weeks to come. That's the word from inside a secret emergency PR focus group, in which a top Republican Party strategist tested pro-ownership messages on a captive audience of hockey fans. One of those fans shared the documents with us, for a sneak preview of the propaganda campaign the NHL will be unloading on the public as the lockout drags on. Here's a look at the ******** on the menu before the league serves it to you.
* * *
"When I say 'the NHL,' what's the first thing that comes to mind?"

That's how 30 people were greeted as they filed into a comfortable, well-lit room in a nondescript office building in a DC suburb Friday evening. They were there not because they were genuinely eager to give their opinions on the lockout, but because they were being paid—$100 for three hours of their time, three hours' worth of feedback to help the NHL shape its message to get the public back on its side.

As the lockout claimed its first games last week, the NHL hurriedly turned to the experts on shaping public debate: Luntz Global, the multinational market research firm that proudly proclaims, "It's not what you say, it's what they hear." CEO and founder Frank Luntz is one of the Republican Party's chief strategists, and he appears regularly on CBS and Fox News as an analyst. But his biggest impact has been behind the scenes. He's played a key role in framing the GOP's message over the years. When global warming was recast as "climate change," that was Frank Luntz. When the estate tax became a "death tax," that was Frank Luntz. When the Affordable Health Care for America Act was held up as "a government takeover," that was Frank Luntz, too.

**drownwithyou** · 10-17-2012, 07:08 PM

McKenzie: NHL proposal wasn't met with great enthusiasm

Fehr isn't moved by the proposal.

**Motor City Sonics** · 11-14-2012, 07:59 AM

So, I have to turn my back on you now NHL. Even if you come back, I can't watch. You disgust me. The owners are bitching about the financial model not working just months after signing players like Zach Parise (a good, but not great player) to $98 million dollar contracts. Sorry, if someone offered me 3 times what I was worth for the same job, I'd take it too. But the players aren't innocent either. They decided to hire Donald Fehr as their rep a couple of years ago. Hey, Fehr is a ruthless negotiator, but Fehr is also the man responsible for cancelling a World Series - which two world wars and an earthquake could not even do. A fact he is actually PROUD of. So you are left with a snivelling ratface representing the owners and a shameless self-centered bastard representing the players. Who represents the fans? Will you have any left? Keep putting hockey in NASCAR country and on South Beach and Phoenix, losing $30 millioin a year. Deny Hamilton a team because it will hurt the Maple Leafs feelings (a team that needs some competition to scare them into relevance again). Deny Quebec City a team because you are too good for a full 14,000 seat arena (I guess having 8,000 in a 20,000 seater is better). I can watch a good Michigan hockey team, I can go to see the Plymouth Whalers for $5 and free parking. I can watch the KHL (where most of your good players are now) online for free. As far as your brand goes - Well, piss off, way to diminish the greatest trophy in sports. It is now a meaningless relic.

**Lousluggage** · 12-01-2012, 12:19 AM

Just went to my first ever AHL game tonight. Aside from having the Monarchs losing 5-4 after leading 3-0 at the end of 2, it was a good time. And, I might add, a lot cheaper than seeing the Bruins would have been....

**drownwithyou** · 12-01-2012, 01:07 AM

I'll be heading to my first ECHL game of the year tomorrow. I'm going to heckle the crap out of Scott Gomez.

**lordstanley** · 12-02-2012, 01:01 PM

Ted Lindsay knows hockey. He was a pioneer for players' rights. And he is right about this lockout and what is in the players' best interests now. The players should settle now. Most former players who have spoken out - as they are not muzzled by the NHLPA - echo Lindsay's remarks.

Ted Lindsay despises badmouthing of Gary Bettman by players during lockout - ESPN New York

Bettman is a weasel. Boston's Jacob seems like a nasty human being. The owners are acting like bullies. Many of the problems the owners are crying about have been caused by themselves- giving out high salaries, manipulating the system through extended contract lengths, overexpanding for the short-term, one-time injection of expansion fees, etc. I believe all that to be true. BUT...

NHL players are guys in their 20s and 30s wih few other marketable skills who are millionaires from playing a game. Many of them are not at all economically sophisticated. They have a lot more of their career earning potential and their net worth impacted by this lockout than do the owners. And I can see how it made sense not to capitulate in August. But now they are the foot soldiers in the war of Don Fehr - a mercenary who has less of an interest in hockey than do Bettman or the owners. Get back on the ice already.

**Lousluggage** · 12-02-2012, 07:26 PM

For some reason that link isn't working for me... sounds like an interesting article, though.

Yeah, Jeremy Jacobs is the main reason I say I'm a hockey fan who follows, but is not a fan of, the Bruins.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-05-2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Lousluggage

For some reason that link isn't working for me... sounds like an interesting article, though.

Yeah, Jeremy Jacobs is the main reason I say I'm a hockey fan who follows, but is not a fan of, the Bruins.

Jacobs is cut from the same clothe as the old Chicago Blackhawks owner, miserable to deal with. Fortunately for hockey fans Ron Burkle is now the owner of the Penguins and he is a sensible man. Looks like he and Crosby had a good day yesterday when it was a owners/players meeting only.

Just get the damn hockey back. I am sick and tired of only watching the Lions lose, bring back the Maple Leafs!

**lordstanley** · 12-05-2012, 11:17 AM

Sidney saving the season? Yesterday was a constructive day it sounded like. The Board of Governors' meeting today will be huge. I guess it's too much to expect that by midnight the lociout will be over, Fehr is gone, and Bettman is gone.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-05-2012, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by lordstanley

Sidney saving the season? Yesterday was a constructive day it sounded like. The Board of Governors' meeting today will be huge. I guess it's too much to expect that by midnight the lociout will be over, Fehr is gone, and Bettman is gone.

Well wouldn't that be a fantastic Wednesday? From all the reports it appears yesterday was very positive and that today is a make it or break it day. Burkle and Crosby really came through yesterday from what everyone is reporting. Realistically they really weren't that far off, just two guys with extreme egos who wouldn't budge for anyone. I hope both are gone in immediate future.

If the lockout does end I wonder if Burke will stick to his holiday roster freeze.

**drownwithyou** · 12-05-2012, 01:02 PM

While I was at the Springsteen concert last night my buddy texted me saying that the lockout was "over." He's pretty deep in the sports betting world, and I guess some of his "friends" in Vegas tipped him off? Hard to believe it, but all the signs are pointing towards something happening in the next couple of days. Either it ends, or the whole season is gone.

**lordstanley** · 12-05-2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

While I was at the Springsteen concert last night

Good man. Long Time Coming acoustic would be great to hear, if the arena stayed at all quiet for it, and Morello always is a strong addition to Death To My Hometown. Bruce's Vancouver show last week was #27 for me.

**lordstanley** · 12-06-2012, 08:22 AM

Multiple sources saying the league upped its make whole to $300 mm from $211 mm, compared to the players' original demand of $383 mm. And that the two open issues are length of the CBA and maximum length of player contracts. If this is accurate, it would truly be idiotic not to wrap this up by the weekend.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-06-2012, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by lordstanley

Multiple sources saying the league upped its make whole to $300 mm from $211 mm, compared to the players' original demand of $383 mm. And that the two open issues are length of the CBA and maximum length of player contracts. If this is accurate, it would truly be idiotic not to wrap this up by the weekend.

Agreed. It seems like the league is asking for a 10 year deal and the PA only wants a 5 year deal. This is one issue I think the PA should concede. They are getting $300M for the make whole and it looks like the free agency requirements are staying the same, in this case they better be able to make a deal.