New Orleans Defenders Targeted Opponents With Intent To Injure

**IdahoBert** · 03-02-2012, 07:01 PM

Saints Violated 'Bounty Rule': New Orleans Defenders Targeted Opponents With Intent To Injure

NEW YORK — New Orleans Saints players and at least one assistant coach maintained a bounty pool of up to $50,000 the last three seasons to reward game-ending injuries inflicted on opposing players, including Brett Favre and Kurt Warner, the NFL said Friday. "Knockouts" were worth $1,500 and "cart-offs" $1,000, with payments doubled or tripled for the playoffs.

The NFL said Friday the pool amounts reached their height in 2009, the year the Saints won the Super Bowl.

**RedRamage** · 03-02-2012, 10:06 PM

Here's an MLive story about it too:

Did New Orleans Saints players provoke Detroit Lions with dirty play during the regular season? | MLive.com

The author hypothesizes that perhaps this was why the Lions were so upset and got so many penalties because the Saints were playing dirty.

Whether that's true or not, this seems like a pretty serious thing... I mean really serious. Paying bounties for intentionally trying to hurt players? That's gotta be stomped on (no pun intended) even worse than Suh's dirty deed, doesn't it?

**jonjd** · 03-02-2012, 10:10 PM

I love this. It's a man's game. This motivation should and most likely does exist in all NFL lockerrooms. Like a few other sports, this isn't a gentlemanly game. Your opponent wants to destroy you. You should want to destroy them too. No controversy here. You should want to defeat and overwhelm your opponent.

**RedRamage** · 03-02-2012, 10:19 PM

Whether or not you should try to defeat and overwhelm your opponent, the NFL does NOT want to be perceived as a sport in which players are intentionally trying to hurt other players. Especially at a time when there is so much focus on concussions and the league being sued by retired players... this is a HUGE PR issue for the NFL and I fully expect them to come down hard on the Saints.

**Sparks4Ever** · 03-03-2012, 12:52 AM

I will guess that the NFL strips the Saints of all their picks in either this year's or next years draft. Plus a fine of a couple million dollars. And a lot of players will get suspended. And Gregg Williams gets a multi-year suspension, if not lifetime ban from the NFL. Maybe the NFL will strip them of their franchise tag to let Brees play elsewhere too.

This might go on in a lot of locker rooms, but the Saints got caught, and they are going to pay the price.

**Chopper** · 03-03-2012, 01:22 AM

Trying to hurt an opponent on purpose means you are not good enough to compete with them. The Saints are not so great now.

**LineCrosser** · 03-03-2012, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by jonjd

I love this. It's a man's game. This motivation should and most likely does exist in all NFL lockerrooms. Like a few other sports, this isn't a gentlemanly game. Your opponent wants to destroy you. You should want to destroy them too. No controversy here. You should want to defeat and overwhelm your opponent.

Yeesh.

I hope I'm just not detecting sarcasm here.

**LineCrosser** · 03-03-2012, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by Sparks4Ever

I will guess that the NFL strips the Saints of all their picks in either this year's or next years draft. Plus a fine of a couple million dollars. And a lot of players will get suspended. And Gregg Williams gets a multi-year suspension, if not lifetime ban from the NFL. Maybe the NFL will strip them of their franchise tag to let Brees play elsewhere too.

This might go on in a lot of locker rooms, but the Saints got caught, and they are going to pay the price.

I'd like to think that the penalties will be stiff, but they won't be anywhere near that. Maybe the loss of two high round draft picks, $1MM fine for the team, and just a few games suspensions for those directly involved.

I bet Sean Payton personally gets off scot-free.

**Mehm** · 03-03-2012, 12:50 PM

I'm guessing this goes on with nearly every team, and the Saints are just the ones that got caught...I'm neither surprised or outraged...and I think it will continue to go on...It's football...

**Sparks4Ever** · 03-03-2012, 09:09 PM

Now that the fact that the life expectancy of a NFL player is 20 yrs less than the average American male is getting a lot more attention, the NFL is no longer going to let this be "just football". The Saints are going to get hammered.

**juiceman** · 03-03-2012, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

I'd like to think that the penalties will be stiff, but they won't be anywhere near that. Maybe the loss of two high round draft picks, $1MM fine for the team, and just a few games suspensions for those directly involved.

I bet Sean Payton personally gets off scot-free.

I wouldn't be too sure about that concerning Payton. This was from Jason LaCanfora's Twitter:

Memo sent to NFL clubs notes an incident with Saints LB Jon Vilma putting up $10K cash for a pre-playoff bounty and also notes that Sean Payton's agent, Mike Ornstein, put up money for a bounty on two occasions. Memo says the actions of Payton and GM Mickey Loomis serves as "conduct detrimental" to the game. Hard not to think steep punishment is coming

**RedRamage** · 03-04-2012, 04:01 PM

Here's an MLive story:
Lions safety Chris Harris: Bounties happen 'all around the league' | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

[Lions safety] Harris said player-run incentive programs where players are rewarded for big plays go on "all around the league."

He wouldn't discuss specifics -- "I don't want that heat from the NFL coming on me," he said -- and he said the Lions didn't issue bounties last year, his only season with the team.

but then later:

Ron Rice, who played for the Lions in 1995-2001, said he never saw bounties when he was in the league, but he knew of players compensating teammates for big plays.

"You go out and say, 'If you get an interception in this game,' or, 'I got $100 that I'll get the interception,' " Rice said. "Or if you got a kick returner, he'll pay the whole return team for every touchdown that he scores. Things like that. But that's all internal things amongst players. Coaches were never involved in it."

Bounties, though, are "disturbing" and most likely "an isolated situation," Rice said.

Now what Rice is talking about I have no problem. That's just 'betting' on making a big (non-injuring intended) play or 'thanking' teammates for helping you achieve something. Didn't Sanders take the OL and their families on a Hawaiian vacation the year he made 2,000 yards?

**RedRamage** · 03-04-2012, 07:27 PM

NFL reportedly to probe Washington Redskins bounties - ESPN

Apparently Williams also ran a bounty program while with the RedSkins. I'm starting to wonder if Williams might to get slap with some huge penalties.

**sagnam** · 03-04-2012, 10:39 PM

Williams, Payton, Loomis, players all may face long suspensions
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 4, 2012, 7:16 PM EST

Lengthy and unprecedented suspensions appear to be coming for those involved in the Saints’ practice of paying bounties to players who injured opponents.

Mark Maske of the Washington Post reports that the NFL is considering long suspensions for head coach Sean Payton, General Manager Mickey Loomis, former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and players who were involved in bounties.

How long? Maske cited an unnamed source who said suspensions could be half a season or longer. One person familiar with the NFL’s thinking on the matter mentioned the decision in 1963 by NFL Commissioner Pete Rozelle to suspend Packers running back Paul Hornung and Lions defensive tackle Alex Karras for an entire season for gambling.

Williams, who ran the bounty program and who’s now the defensive coordinator of the Rams, would seem to be the person who would get the longest suspension. Rams head coach Jeff Fisher should probably be in the process of coming up with a Plan B at the defensive coordinator position on his coaching staff because Williams, the Plan A, may be unavailable for some or all of the season.

But Payton and Loomis appear to be facing discipline as well, and players involved could also be suspended. The NFL said 22 to 27 players on the Saints were involved, but the league hasn’t said who those players are. We don’t know how many are still in the league, how many are still with the Saints and whether some players were ringleaders of the bounty program and will face more significant than others.

What is clear is that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is preparing to come down hard. After the Spygate scandal, Goodell stripped the Patriots of a first-round pick, fined Bill Belichick $500,000 and fined the Patriots $250,000. All indications are that the sanctions for the Saints will be significantly more severe.

Williams, Payton, Loomis, players all may face long suspensions | ProFootballTalk

**lesgoblu02** · 03-05-2012, 07:39 AM

The players defending this are jackasses. They just went through this big lockout last spring where one of the points of contention was how the "NFL didn't take care of former players". Well guess what a-hole, you aren't taking care of each other with crap like this.

**PuNk42AE** · 03-21-2012, 01:00 PM

Peyton suspended for 1 year and the Saints give up 2 1st round picks, so far...

**T&P_Fan** · 03-21-2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by PuNk42AE

Peyton suspended for 1 year and the Saints give up 2 1st round picks, so far...

I knew the league would be harsh, but not this harsh. I am happy they were though, good call Roger.

**PuNk42AE** · 03-21-2012, 01:04 PM

Wonder what they will do with Greg Williams since it was his name talked about the most.

**PuNk42AE** · 03-21-2012, 01:06 PM

The NFL has suspended New Orleans head coach Sean Payton for the 2012 season, and former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is banned from the league indefinitely because of the team’s bounty program that targeted opposing players.

Yep, a long time

**PuNk42AE** · 03-21-2012, 01:07 PM

Actually sounds like two 2nd round picks.

In addition, the Saints are being fined $500,000 and forfeit second-round draft picks this year and in 2013.

**WMUDan** · 03-21-2012, 01:18 PM

With S. Payton gone, I want to see them let Drew Brees call his own plays.

**mtutiger** · 03-21-2012, 01:23 PM

Good.

**Vonlenska** · 03-21-2012, 01:37 PM

Very pleased.

**ROMAD1** · 03-22-2012, 11:45 AM

Have players been suspended yet?

Warren Sapp deserves a suspension from NFL network for calling out Shockey.

Anyone heard any of the Saints fanbase squeal on the call in shows over this...they ain't happy...

**RedRamage** · 03-22-2012, 12:38 PM

Honestly, I'm not surprised they are upset. I have to think that if the Lions were the ones caught we'd be upset and saying that it happens everywhere.

RE: The players, Mike Golic this morning hinted that the reason players haven't been suspended/fined yet is that the NFLPA is doing an investigation as well ans that the NFL will wait until that is done before announcing penalties for players.

**lesgoblu02** · 03-22-2012, 12:47 PM

What the people who are all bent out of shape need to realize is, these penalties weren't a direct result of the "Bounty" program. The NFL found out about this in 2009. They told all parties involved to knock it off. Not only did they not stop, they then lied to the league when asked about it.

Everyone got exactly what they deserved.

**sagnam** · 03-22-2012, 12:50 PM

I think they were punished so badly for continuing to do it after lying. If they would have been honest up front or stopped after they lied during the first investigation, it probably would have been a slap on the wrist.

**ROMAD1** · 03-22-2012, 12:54 PM

I'm actually ambivalent on this entire thing. Waiting for inconsistencies in punishment to manifest and for tortured spin of those inconsistencies to occur.

**lesgoblu02** · 05-02-2012, 11:55 AM

Per @greggrosenthal:

Vilma suspended for the season

Hargrove gets 8 games

Will Smith 4 games

Fujita 3 games

**RedRamage** · 06-19-2012, 11:49 AM

So now they've heard the appeals. The players are basically saying that the 'evidence' that the NFL has is mostly made up or at least embellished stuff.

So who do you believe? Now, I certainly understand that the NFL might want to...shall we say "improve" the evidence to support their suspensions. But, wouldn't the NFL much rather have this be a much smaller issue? Would the NFL really want things to look worse than they already are? It kinda reminds me of the Ryan Braun thing. Why would the MLB want their NL MVP to have an issue with steroids? Why would they try to make it worse and it's really in their best interest to let it go away.

**T&P_Fan** · 06-19-2012, 11:59 AM

I just can't take the NFL judicial process seriously, it is egregious that Goodell is the one who hears the appeals.

**RedRamage** · 06-19-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

I just can't take the NFL judicial process seriously, it is egregious that Goodell is the one who hears the appeals.

I think that's a very real complaint and certainly something that needs to be addressed in the CBA. Of course, the players did sign off on it initially. Apparently someone didn't really read through it all carefully enough to realize what was going on.

However, besides the appeal process, what do you think about the information that's coming out regarding 'bounty-gate'?

Do you think the NFL is, as the players seems to be claiming, making up the evidence or presenting it out of context and in the most damning way possible?