Games of Thrones, Season 2 (Probably will be spoilers inside!)

**Amish Love Machine** · 04-02-2012, 11:18 AM

Last night kicked off season 2 of HBO's splendid "Game of Thrones". The episode wasn't even 2 minutes old and I was already hating Joffrey Baratheon...he is the most wretched human being ever. I really enjoyed the first episode and am looking forward to how the season progresses.

**ROMAD1** · 04-02-2012, 12:27 PM

Joffrey is a pretty common type in history.

The show boggles my mind its giving out so much info so quickly. But, it is interesting and there is some fine acting going on. Peter Drinklage is very good.

**drownwithyou** · 04-02-2012, 01:09 PM

I'm excited to see how they do some of the scenes this season. Also bracing myself!

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 04-03-2012, 07:20 AM

Not having read the source material, I am curious to see where this goes. Have some ideas in mind...

**Antrat** · 04-03-2012, 09:26 AM

I wanna' do the queen soooo bad!

**Shelton** · 04-03-2012, 09:33 AM

I just finished reading the fourth book. Really happy to be able to revisit the events of these upcoming episodes.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 04-03-2012, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Antrat

I wanna' do the queen soooo bad!

I'm more a Dany Targaryen man myself.

**ROMAD1** · 04-03-2012, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

I'm more a Dany Targaryen man myself.

Apparently we don't see much of her for the first 4 episodes. She's going to be lethal when she figures out what she's doing though...

(hate not having read the books because those who have can jump all over any speculation we non-readers might have)

**toadhunter911** · 04-03-2012, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

I'm more a Dany Targaryen man myself.

For sure...

Although the character she plays is supposed to be only 13 years old in the first book.

**drownwithyou** · 04-03-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

Apparently we don't see much of her for the first 4 episodes. She's going to be lethal when she figures out what she's doing though...

(hate not having read the books because those who have can jump all over any speculation we non-readers might have)

Seems pretty silly for the book readers to do. I actually enjoy hearing where people think it is going (also when reading the books, then you get more in depth predictions) because Martin can get pretty wild with what he does... although he's getting a BIT predictable with some things.

The second episode is out here in the Netherlands on HBO Go... about to watch it in a few minutes.

**ROMAD1** · 04-03-2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

Seems pretty silly for the book readers to do. I actually enjoy hearing where people think it is going (also when reading the books, then you get more in depth predictions) because Martin can get pretty wild with what he does... although he's getting a BIT predictable with some things.

The second episode is out here in the Netherlands on HBO Go... about to watch it in a few minutes.

My assumption from talking with my friend who reads these books is that everyone dies and dies often.

**drownwithyou** · 04-03-2012, 11:43 AM

KIND OF. There are definitely few "happy endings", but I think that makes the story even more intriguing and when "good" things happen you kind of celebrate.

I've also thrown these books often, so it goes both ways.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 04-03-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by toadhunter911

For sure...

Although the character she plays is supposed to be only 13 years old in the first book.

Haven't read the books, but the fact she is 13 years old in the book does not change the fact the actress playing her was 23, and the 23 year old is the one I am keen on.

I would also add the character's behavior on the show is hardly that of a 13 year old.

**ROMAD1** · 04-03-2012, 12:44 PM

R.R. Martin sure does put a lot of pre-teens and tweens in his story...might want to track his online activity.

**drownwithyou** · 04-03-2012, 12:52 PM

Haha well a lot of it has to do with the parents playing the Game of Thrones with their children through marriage and what not.

**Antrat** · 04-03-2012, 01:42 PM

Back then most of them lived to be 35.
marrying 12 year olds was probably the standard practice.

**Shelton** · 04-03-2012, 01:45 PM

As a reader of 4/5 of the books, I like reading what the people who only watch the show think.

I would never let my knowledge of happens later in the story center the discussion about the show, even if asked.

**drownwithyou** · 04-03-2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Antrat

Back then most of them lived to be 35.
marrying 12 year olds was probably the standard practice.

I don't know if that's the case in this world, it seems like there are a ton of older people. Even in the peasants and what not.

**Deleterious** · 04-10-2012, 01:19 PM

Not a shock, but GoT has been picked up for season 3 already.

'Game Of Thrones' Season 3: HBO Renews Drama

**Boilerfan** · 04-11-2012, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Not a shock, but GoT has been picked up for season 3 already.

'Game Of Thrones' Season 3: HBO Renews Drama

At this rate they may push Martin to complete the books a bit quicker!

**RedRamage** · 04-11-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

Seems pretty silly for the book readers to do. I actually enjoy hearing where people think it is going (also when reading the books, then you get more in depth predictions) because Martin can get pretty wild with what he does... although he's getting a BIT predictable with some things.

Um... not to jump all over your speculation, but no he's not.

Feel free to speculate, but I can almost guarantee you'll be wrong. I agree with you that non-readers should have fun speculating. I love to do that and I try my darnedest to not spoil anything. But I will say that all through the books I just kept being wrong and wrong and wrong. Every once in a while I'd guess something correctly, but that was maybe 1 in 10 being right.

**RedRamage** · 04-11-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

I don't know if that's the case in this world, it seems like there are a ton of older people. Even in the peasants and what not.

I don't think peasants. Most of the "older" people are nobility or work directly for nobility.

**RedRamage** · 04-11-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Not a shock, but GoT has been picked up for season 3 already.

'Game Of Thrones' Season 3: HBO Renews Drama

So, there's seven books planned. Season one = Book one, and I'm guessing Season two = Book two.

Books 3, 4, and 5 many not line up perfectly with a season. In particular 4 and 5 and concurrent events, separated geographically (4 is one area of the world, much of 5 is the other area). I suspect they might try to get 4 seasons out of those 3 books. And they easily could. Lots of content there.

That means book 6, which Martin started in 2010, should be finished in time to be part of the series. But unless they do two season on book 6, I find it very unlikely that Martin gets book 7 done in time to not see a big delay for the final season to finish up.

**qsilvr2531** · 04-11-2012, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by RedRamage

So, there's seven books planned. Season one = Book one, and I'm guessing Season two = Book two.

Books 3, 4, and 5 many not line up perfectly with a season. In particular 4 and 5 and concurrent events, separated geographically (4 is one area of the world, much of 5 is the other area). I suspect they might try to get 4 seasons out of those 3 books. And they easily could. Lots of content there.

That means book 6, which Martin started in 2010, should be finished in time to be part of the series. But unless they do two season on book 6, I find it very unlikely that Martin gets book 7 done in time to not see a big delay for the final season to finish up.

No way he finishes it in 7 books, IMO.

Martin has said that season 3 will cover essentially half of Storm of Swords (book 3). Book 4 wouldn't necessarily need the same treatment but book 5 almost certainly would and, as you mentioned, because of the way books 4 and 5 were written they will likely combine at least those two into multiple season.

He's unlikely to finish book 6 until at least 2013 and 2015 seems more realistic to me. That means book 7 would be 2016 at the absolute earliest and more likely 2018-2020. 2019-2020 would be season 8 and 9 of the TV series and would cover book 6 if he covers books 3 and 4 with 3 seasons, so if he does finish the series in 7 books he'll probably get it done in time for the TV series to come out after all the books are written, but it is going to be close.

**Vonlenska** · 04-11-2012, 01:50 PM

HBO doesn't exactly have a history of its big time shows having small hiatuses. I expect as the series goes on the time between seasons will get greater.

Also, this show is great. Dinklage is outstanding. Clarke is outstanding. Bean was, too. Lots of great performances, a really outstanding cast overall.

**lionstigersand...** · 04-11-2012, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by qsilvr2531

No way he finishes it in 7 books, IMO.

Martin has said that season 3 will cover essentially half of Storm of Swords (book 3). Book 4 wouldn't necessarily need the same treatment but book 5 almost certainly would and, as you mentioned, because of the way books 4 and 5 were written they will likely combine at least those two into multiple season.

He's unlikely to finish book 6 until at least 2013 and 2015 seems more realistic to me. That means book 7 would be 2016 at the absolute earliest and more likely 2018-2020. 2019-2020 would be season 8 and 9 of the TV series and would cover book 6 if he covers books 3 and 4 with 3 seasons, so if he does finish the series in 7 books he'll probably get it done in time for the TV series to come out after all the books are written, but it is going to be close.

Odds are better than even money (IMO) that should he not, he won't be the author that completes the series. Hell, he's gonna be hard-pressed to make it through 7. If he "makes the eight (hi oh!)" I would be pleasantly surprised.

**ROMAD1** · 04-16-2012, 12:38 PM

Nobody has commented on last night's episode yet...

Hmm...the Greyjoys need a family meeting.

**RedRamage** · 04-16-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

Nobody has commented on last night's episode yet...

Hmm...the Greyjoys need a family meeting.

I think part of the problem is that half the people watching already know the story from the books and we don't want to ruin it for those who haven't read the books yet. Lots of stuff I'd like to comment on, but I have to be careful in how I word things and what I say.

I will say this, I feel like the show has done a better job of showing Theon's conflicted emotions between family honor and friendship with the Starks. Reading the books I didn't understand Theon's motivation as much. Maybe it's just seeing it acted out rather than reading it too... I dunno.

Also, the homosexuality of Renly wasn't nearly so pronounced and overt. Which of course means there wasn't really the whole scene of Margaery confronting Renly about it and being "wise beyond her years" in political maneuvering. However, that scene was NOT out of character for her at all and there aren't certainly enough hints about Renly's persuasion in the books that I didn't have a problem with that scene at all.

On a related note, the physical relationship between Stannis and Melisandre is also not nearly as overt in the books as in the show. Just like Renly, it's hinted at, but not said in black and white.

The actress playing Yara is interesting. She's now how I pictured her, but I think he's plays the role very well. Slightly smug, slightly superior. Her name in the books is Asha. I think this was discussed before, but it was probably changed from Asha to Yara because there was fear that it was too close to Osha, the name of the wildling-turn-servant at Winterfell.

**RedRamage** · 04-16-2012, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by RedRamage

I think part of the problem is that half the people watching already know the story from the books and we don't want to ruin it for those who haven't read the books yet. Lots of stuff I'd like to comment on, but I have to be careful in how I word things and what I say.

After re-reading what I wrote I wanted to add to this a little bit: A very real part of this problem is that no character is really safe. It's been eluded to many times, but main characters get killed in this story all the time. So even saying something like: "It's really interesting to see how Ned Stark develops as a character based on what happened here." is a spoiler. Saying that implies that Ned will be around for quite a while which spoilers the viewer about whether he gets killed or not.

**shauntacular** · 04-16-2012, 02:38 PM

boobies and dragons. I am a fan of both. This show is outstanding and last night's episode was really really good.

**shauntacular** · 04-16-2012, 02:42 PM

oh yeah and

**drownwithyou** · 04-16-2012, 02:50 PM

Haha that is awesome.

**ROMAD1** · 04-23-2012, 02:06 PM

no comments on this yet?

The chick gave birth to the smoke monster from Lost and no comments?

**RedRamage** · 04-23-2012, 02:50 PM

In the book it's mentioned that the smoke monster has more than just a passing resemblance to Stannis. Of course the physical relationship between Stannis and the Red Priestess was less overt so the resemblance had to be stated so that the read knew where the source came from.

Some quick background on Davos (Stannis friend/adviser who used to be a smuggler). Stannis was trapped in a siege and he and his men were dying. Davos smuggled in onions and turnips to feed the people until allies could come rescue them. For his saving him, Stannis knighted Davos (hence why he is sometimes called the onion knight). But for being a smuggler, the look off the last joint of every finger on his left hand.

They've condensed a number of things here and there to make the story flow a little faster. Still stayed true to the book for the most part.

I don't remember the little scene with King Joffery and the two prostitutes. Maybe I'm just forgetting but I don't think that was in the book, and I didn't think it was necessary. Yes, the boy king is more than just a little vindictive and likes to punish people. But the whole scene felt wrong to me. Joffery isn't that calculating. He wouldn't be smart enough to think that by physically hurting the woman he would emotionally hurt the imp.

I'll be very interested to see who ends up portraying the warlock in Qarth. When I read the book I always pictured him like the guy from Clash of the Titans... the priest dude who tried to sacrifice the princess to the kraken.

**ROMAD1** · 04-23-2012, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by RedRamage

In the book it's mentioned that the smoke monster has more than just a passing resemblance to Stannis. Of course the physical relationship between Stannis and the Red Priestess was less overt so the resemblance had to be stated so that the read knew where the source came from.

Some quick background on Davos (Stannis friend/adviser who used to be a smuggler). Stannis was trapped in a siege and he and his men were dying. Davos smuggled in onions and turnips to feed the people until allies could come rescue them. For his saving him, Stannis knighted Davos (hence why he is sometimes called the onion knight). But for being a smuggler, the look off the last joint of every finger on his left hand.

They've condensed a number of things here and there to make the story flow a little faster. Still stayed true to the book for the most part.

I don't remember the little scene with King Joffery and the two prostitutes. Maybe I'm just forgetting but I don't think that was in the book, and I didn't think it was necessary. Yes, the boy king is more than just a little vindictive and likes to punish people. But the whole scene felt wrong to me. Joffery isn't that calculating. He wouldn't be smart enough to think that by physically hurting the woman he would emotionally hurt the imp.

I'll be very interested to see who ends up portraying the warlock in Qarth. When I read the book I always pictured him like the guy from Clash of the Titans... the priest dude who tried to sacrifice the princess to the kraken.

the issue I have with the series is that it appears thus far to be R. R. Martin's sadomasochistic thrill show. Waiting for a redeeming character to emerge.

and if one does not emerge...then this is really pointless medieval fantasy porn.

still enjoyable but not fulfilling.

**qsilvr2531** · 04-23-2012, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by lionstigersand...

Odds are better than even money (IMO) that should he not, he won't be the author that completes the series. Hell, he's gonna be hard-pressed to make it through 7. If he "makes the eight (hi oh!)" I would be pleasantly surprised.

Everything I've read suggests he won't allow anyone else to finish the series if he dies before it's done. He recently got married so I suppose it would come down to pressuring her to get it to happen, but I have my doubts.

**RedRamage** · 04-23-2012, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

the issue I have with the series is that it appears thus far to be R. R. Martin's sadomasochistic thrill show. Waiting for a redeeming character to emerge.

and if one does not emerge...then this is really pointless medieval fantasy porn.

still enjoyable but not fulfilling.

Hm... You kinda have a point. There is certainly an element of fantasy porn to it. While I don't think the books are quite as graphic as the show, there certainly is plenty of sex in the books. As for redeeming character(s)... that's spoiler, kinda. So you've been warned. I'm not going to go into too many details, but I'm sure some will not want to read this:

********* SPOILERS AHEAD ***********
Turn back now if you don't want to be spoiled:

I'm not sure that there are any typical "protagonists" in this story. There certainly isn't one, or even a group of people, that you would really root for and say these are the hero(s) of the tale. Even the most noble of characters has flaws and makes mistakes. Yet at the same time, there are very few pure "antagonists" as well. There are some people that are truly evil, but those are mostly minor characters. I can think of only one character that is a major character that I would find truly bad. Even he's done some noble things, though in his case they are mostly self-serving noble things.

Everyone else is somewhere in the middle. They are good and bad. They do nice things and then do bad things. They make poor decisions, or change who they are or how they act. And I think that's kinda how things are in reality. This isn't a quest or adventure type story. It's more of a soap opera in the sense of telling the story of some people's lives as their live through them. And just like a soap opera... or real life... there are people who you would say are mostly good and some who are mostly bad. But even the good ones do bad things and the bad ones do good things.

It's a very different tale than many other stories out there. And certainly it's not for everyone. Do not expect to see any real change in what's happening now vs. what it will be like in the seasons ahead though. So if this particular entertainment isn't for you, then I wouldn't recommend investing anymore time into it. It's gonna be more of the same.
********* SPOILERS END ***********

**RedRamage** · 04-23-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by qsilvr2531

Everything I've read suggests he won't allow anyone else to finish the series if he dies before it's done. He recently got married so I suppose it would come down to pressuring her to get it to happen, but I have my doubts.

That's a shame. It this show continues to be a good product for HBO I'm sure they are gonna hate having to leave it without any sort of resolution. I wonder if they have any leeway with ending it if Martin dies before finishing it.

**Antrat** · 04-23-2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by ROMAD1

the issue I have with the series is that it appears thus far to be R. R. Martin's sadomasochistic thrill show. Waiting for a redeeming character to emerge.

and if one does not emerge...then this is really pointless medieval fantasy porn.

still enjoyable but not fulfilling.

I agree with this as far as the TV show goes.
HBO loves them some boobies.
I find it over the top and it definitely takes away from the story.
They even rewrote a character to be gay that wasn't gay in the books.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

**qsilvr2531** · 04-23-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by RedRamage

That's a shame. It this show continues to be a good product for HBO I'm sure they are gonna hate having to leave it without any sort of resolution. I wonder if they have any leeway with ending it if Martin dies before finishing it.

I think HBO can probably finish with or without Martin. They'd just have to finish it themselves rather than work off the books as source material. But Martin has said he doesn't want anyone else to finish the books for him if he can't.