GDT: #13 Michigan at Iowa 11/5/2011

[Truth]

Al Borges should be fired right now. 4 plays from the 3 and we couldn't get in the endzone.

That was disgusting, Borges is a damn joke.

That's ridiculous.

[Vonlenska]

Run pass option, he should roll out everytime. You have atleast 3 shots at it. Either a quick dump off or run it in. Fade routes? Give me a break, Denard has no touch.

Agreed, but they ran one that WAS a TD. They just got jobbed. run pass option, Denard can't throw for ****ing **** on the run, you know this.

[pyrotigers]

Let me ask you something, do you really think Denard could handle a no huddle at this point in time?

Well given that he ran it all of last year when he was a much better QB, I would guess that yes he probably could.

[Vonlenska]

I also disagree that not getting it in from the 3 with 4 plays is ridiculous. Normally, yes, but 16 seconds left. No time outs. ****** passing QB, receivers that drop the ball, etc. Team just isn't that good. Definitely way better and I love the defensive progress, and as much as I love Denard he makes too many mistakes to be a reliable player. They would have won this game with even a competent game managing QB. Remember how much we were frustrated with Henne? Well, they would have won by 21 with Henne under center.

[jackson_cannery]

The only play call I question is 4th down. With 2 seconds left, why not open the playbook a little bit instead of just another pass? Let Denard roll out and see what's available.

Also, why don't we see a little more of the Last-2-Minutes offense during the rest of the game?

[Vonlenska]

Well given that he ran it all of last year when he was a much better QB, I would guess that yes he probably could.

With no consideration that this is a different regime with a different playbook?

[pyrotigers]

With no consideration that this is a different regime with a different playbook?

Well given that they were running incredibly basic plays that entire drive, I'd guess he could have handled it.

Or, they could have just not stood at the line for 10 seconds every play before snapping it.

[Vonlenska]

Well given that they were running incredibly basic plays that entire drive, I'd guess he could have handled it.

Or, they could have just not stood at the line for 10 seconds every play before snapping it.

Maybe you're right. I just have very little confidence in Denard.

[Vonlenska]

Also, despite the loss, it was a pretty good final drive, which started deep in their own territory. Denard made some nice throws.

[Ingefanclub]

So much of this game leaves me annoyed.

The biggest annoyance was the referees calling pass iterference in the 2nd quarter on Minnesota then picking up the flag without an explanation. Denard fumbled the ball like 2 plays later and the Gophers kicked a FG from that to give them a 17-6 lead. Changed the game in a huge way.

Then at games end a Michigan player got out of bounds with 1:01 left and the refs started the clock again so after the next incomplete pass there was 38 seconds left. They must have overruled that the Michigan player went out of bounds unless the clock now runs after going out of bounds in college with under 2 minutes left but I doubt that.

Though Michigan should have not called time out on the Iowa punt. That may have been the biggest blunder. 4 pass plays...good calls as Denard had nowhere to run on any of those plays. The catch in the back of the endzone I thought was a TD initially but the refs did not. On the replay it was inconclusive he may have bobbled the ball as the end hit the turf. At any rate Michigan was the better team but Denard threw the interception near the endzone that cost Michigan their chance to win this game.

[Vonlenska]

They weren't playing Minnesota haha :P

[Truth]

Maybe you're right. I just have very little confidence in Denard.

Neither do I, at least for now. He has to process a lot more information in this offense, get the right read, remember to set his feet, blah, blah, blah.

[Motor City Sonics]

Wow, if Denard hits open receivers today - Michigan probably wins this game by 10. He missed guy after guy after guy and it is evident now - he is not a good quarterback. He is a special athlete who can throw the ball, but a terrible quarterback and Michigan needs allow him to show his skill set first and worry about the pro offense for when Devin Gardiner becomes the starter as a junior. That was a terrible call at the end, but if Denard hits guys that were open today, they wouldn't have needed a last-minute score. Michigan still has not beaten a decent team.

[Truth]

So much of this game leaves me annoyed.

The biggest annoyance was the referees calling pass iterference in the 2nd quarter on Minnesota then picking up the flag without an explanation. Denard fumbled the ball like 2 plays later and the Gophers kicked a FG from that to give them a 17-6 lead. Changed the game in a huge way.

Then at games end a Michigan player got out of bounds with 1:01 left and the refs started the clock again so after the next incomplete pass there was 38 seconds left. They must have overruled that the Michigan player went out of bounds unless the clock now runs after going out of bounds in college with under 2 minutes left but I doubt that.

Though Michigan should have not called time out on the Iowa punt. That may have been the biggest blunder. 4 pass plays...good calls as Denard had nowhere to run on any of those plays. The catch in the back of the endzone I thought was a TD initially but the refs did not. On the replay it was inconclusive he may have bobbled the ball as the end hit the turf. At any rate Michigan was the better team but Denard threw the interception near the endzone that cost Michigan their chance to win this game.

Watching it live I thought the ref signaled he was out of bounds when he caught the ball. The replay clearly showed his knee was down in bounds.

[Motor City Sonics]

If the the non-TD call didn't bother you enough. Here is a picture of the last play





Guess they missed that one too.

[Porcelain God]

Michigan got jobbed on one of the best catches I've ever seen.

[hail2mich]

You have to give credit to the Michigan defense at the end of that game. They gave Michigan two opportunities by stopping Iowa on 3rd/4th and short opportunities. The improvement this defense has made in one year is crazy.

[Porcelain God]

Much like the Lions, I really wish the defense would start as well as they finish. I'm sick of them giving up easy early drives.

[JayVee]

I don't know enough about the rule to determine whether or not that catch was a TD. Did the refs really get it wrong? Is there a general non-partisan outcry about the call?

[hail2mich]

I don't know enough about the rule to determine whether or not that catch was a TD. Did the refs really get it wrong? Is there a general non-partisan outcry about the call?

His knee was down in the end zone before any other part of him landed out of bounds. They called it incomplete at the time because they thought he had landed out of bounds first. I have no idea why it was ruled incomplete. It was not bobbled, and he was in bounds with a knee down. That's a catch .

[Mark The Shark]

Ball was still moving when the knee went down. I thought it was a TD, but not indisputably. Great game, I didn't think we had a chance after last week. Good luck the rest of the way.

[pyrotigers]

Wow, if Denard hits open receivers today - Michigan probably wins this game by 10. He missed guy after guy after guy and it is evident now - he is not a good quarterback. He is a special athlete who can throw the ball, but a terrible quarterback and Michigan needs allow him to show his skill set first and worry about the pro offense for when Devin Gardiner becomes the starter as a junior. That was a terrible call at the end, but if Denard hits guys that were open today, they wouldn't have needed a last-minute score. Michigan still has not beaten a decent team.

He also had two absolutely killer drops by Hemingway, and the interception I thought was either pass interference or an awfully poor job by the WR going for the ball

[mr0zip0]

Ball was still moving when the knee went down. I thought it was a TD, but not indisputably. Great game, I didn't think we had a chance after last week. Good luck the rest of the way.

Referees should NOT lean on this crutch... What if they had in the MSU-Wisconsin game? One of (if not the) best games of the year would have been much much worse... There is no way I would consider the angles shown to be conclusive, but they decided it was good enough... They really should have done the same thing here.

The only time the "call on the field stands" is when there is litterally no camera that shows something one way or another.

Refs should never see a play, say "well I THINK it is a TD, but I'm not positive, so we'll keep it an incompletion."

[mr0zip0]

His knee was down in the end zone before any other part of him landed out of bounds. They called it incomplete at the time because they thought he had landed out of bounds first. I have no idea why it was ruled incomplete. It was not bobbled, and he was in bounds with a knee down. That's a catch .

Exactly... 100% right... Once a knee is down, and while that knee is down, possession is established, it is a Touchdown... Anything and everything that occurs after those two is completely irrelevent.

There is no Calvin Johnson Process rule in college.

[Big Frame]

Exactly... 100% right... Once a knee is down, and while that knee is down, possession is established, it is a Touchdown... Anything and everything that occurs after those two is completely irrelevent.

There is no Calvin Johnson Process rule in college.

The ball was still moving, when he fell it touched the ground. He didn't have possession.

[mr0zip0]

The ball was still moving, when he fell it touched the ground. He didn't have possession.

Did Michigan Get Screwed On This Endzone Non-Catch? | SportsGrid

At 45 seconds they show it well... The ball wasn't moving until he hit the ground, and even then I'm not convinced it was moving... When he got his knee down, the ball was by his chest and in his possession. He could have dropped the ball right there and it doesn't matter, it should have been a Touchdown.

[monkeynuts]

Personally, I think they clearly blew the pass interference call on the last play, but made the correct call on the incomplete pass...the ball clearly hit the ground...

[monkeynuts]

Did Michigan Get Screwed On This Endzone Non-Catch? | SportsGrid

At 45 seconds they show it well... The ball wasn't moving until he hit the ground, and even then I'm not convinced it was moving... When he got his knee down, the ball was by his chest and in his possession. He could have dropped the ball right there and it doesn't matter, it should have been a Touchdown.

Doesn't he have to maintain possession through the process?

[Nolan]

Looks like a touchdown to me.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Doesn't he have to maintain possession through the process?

not in college. also ball can touch the ground and it's still a catch if he already had and maintains possession. I thought he had and maintained possession pretty clearly.

I agree w zippo, refs fell back on the 'indisputible' crutch because they didn't want to make the tough call.

[will the thrill]

the problem with the play is that the ref on the field called it incomplete, if he had called it a touchdown, there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it either way. I took more issue with the final call that would get called pass interference 99.9/100 times as son as the receiver wraps his arm around Roundtree. Sure we still need a 2 point conversion and took 4 plays from the 3 and didn't score, so who knows if we get it.

Bottom line is we didn't deserve to win the game with how we played

[Porcelain God]

One ref called it a TD, the other did not. The ruling on the field should have been quite easy to overturn. The lack of PI on the last play and the reversal of a PI earlier plus the reversal of the long TD run just made the officiating seem particularly one sided.

[will the thrill]

One ref called it a TD, the other did not. The ruling on the field should have been quite easy to overturn. The lack of PI on the last play and the reversal of a PI earlier plus the reversal of the long TD run just made the officiating seem particularly one sided.

How is it easy to overturn? The nose of the ball clearly made contact with the ground as he was coming down and push higher into his body, I've seen that called incomplete many times before. As for the Pass Interference on the last play, that was the clearly horrible call. Being one-side is pretty normal on the road(and for the losing team).

[Truth]

How is it easy to overturn? The nose of the ball clearly made contact with the ground as he was coming down and push higher into his body, I've seen that called incomplete many times before. As for the Pass Interference on the last play, that was the clearly horrible call. Being one-side is pretty normal on the road(and for the losing team).

He was down, with the ball before that wasn't he?

[T&P_Fan]

I don't even care about the catch. Spread out the defense and give denard a run pass option....every time. Two NFL games had this happen yesterday, 1st and goal inside the 5 less than 20 secs left, both TDs were scored on a run by the QB (one was matt schaub).

I know people get on me for belaboring a point, but in this case I feel justified, no way should have ever thrown touch passes to back of the endzone. Denard should have rolled out, if no one is open and he cant get in throw it out of the endzone. If you have 3 tries at this, it will work once, every time in life with Denard.

[T&P_Fan]

Much like the Lions, I really wish the defense would start as well as they finish. I'm sick of them giving up easy early drives.

This is a great point. Both the Lions and UM seem to have a problem properly motivating their defenses to start.

[Porcelain God]

How is it easy to overturn? The nose of the ball clearly made contact with the ground as he was coming down and push higher into his body, I've seen that called incomplete many times before. As for the Pass Interference on the last play, that was the clearly horrible call. Being one-side is pretty normal on the road(and for the losing team).

Because he had possession with his knee down in bounds, that is all that is required of a catch in college. No 'continue through the progression' rule had to be followed here.

[Truth]

I don't even care about the catch. Spread out the defense and give denard a run pass option....every time. Two NFL games had this happen yesterday, 1st and goal inside the 5 less than 20 secs left, both TDs were scored on a run by the QB (one was matt schaub).

I know people get on me for belaboring a point, but in this case I feel justified, no way should have ever thrown touch passes to back of the endzone. Denard should have rolled out, if no one is open and he cant get in throw it out of the endzone. If you have 3 tries at this, it will work once, every time in life with Denard.

Did you notice how Iowa was defending him? They weren't biting. I'm not sure you can count on Denard to throw it away either, he hasn't shown that kind of cool judgement.