Michigan Basketball 2010-11

**T&P_Fan** · 02-12-2011, 06:17 PM

Wow Tom Crean. Take a timeout with .5 secs left with Michigan up 4.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-12-2011, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by hail2mich

Did they move the basket back a foot during halftime? Looks like Michigan will win this, but the way this team has played down the stretch vs. Northwestern and now Indiana worries me. This game should have been put away a long time ago.

Have to hit free throws. Either way, got another win.

**dadair6** · 02-12-2011, 06:53 PM

Went to my first UM game today. For long stretches in each half it was just brutal basketball, but a W is a W. You can tell this a young team in that they've blown big leads the last two games down the stretch, but you have to give them credit for regrouping and winning.

**Truth** · 02-12-2011, 06:55 PM

The Wolverines would get a lot more style points in some close losses to much better teams than they did today but I'll take the win.

**Porcelain God** · 02-12-2011, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Wow Tom Crean. Take a timeout with .5 secs left with Michigan up 4.

Three pointer with a foul evens it up. I'd be more mad if he didn't try.

**pyrotigers** · 02-13-2011, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by Porcelain God

Three pointer with a foul evens it up. I'd be more mad if he didn't try.

Yes, except Michigan had the ball.

I suppose it was possible that Michigan could have inbounded the ball past the three point line, an Indiana player could have intercepted it with a tip, been fouled while tipping it, and then had the tip go in for a three pointer. But that seems fairly unlikely.

**JonBenke** · 02-13-2011, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by pyrotigers

But that seems fairly unlikely.

It wouldn't happen. I hate when they call timeouts or foul when the game is clearly out of reach!

**djhutch** · 02-13-2011, 06:53 AM

The timeout is a natural reaction. Shot goes up, ball goes in, you call timeout. The refs gave it to him, the scoreboard guy hits the button. It's not as if the coach says "I want you guys to call a timeout with .5 seconds left."

As for UM, good win. & the Indiana run at the end would have been nothing if Michigan makes a few of those free throws. Gonna have to make those, but still it's good experience. & it's nice to get experience like that during a win.

**DrWho17** · 02-13-2011, 09:37 AM

U-M is hot now, they can make the tournament with a few more wins and a win or two in the tournament. I keep hearing these guys Nationally talk about how good the Big Ten is this year.

Beilein appears to be improving his recruiting, Morris is great, Hardaway looks like a star, Morgan is good. Still have the Novak/Douglass guys but oh well. This team would be insane if Harris/Sims hadn't decided they were ready for the pro's. They need to hook up with Shawn Kemp, get some of his sons in to town. Glenn Robinson III/Larry Nance Jr. should be here next year, to go with Hardaway Jr, and little Horford and little Dumars.

**Buddha** · 02-13-2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

U-M is hot now, they can make the tournament with a few more wins and a win or two in the tournament. I keep hearing these guys Nationally talk about how good the Big Ten is this year.

Beilein appears to be improving his recruiting, Morris is great, Hardaway looks like a star, Morgan is good. Still have the Novak/Douglass guys but oh well. This team would be insane if Harris/Sims hadn't decided they were ready for the pro's. They need to hook up with Shawn Kemp, get some of his sons in to town. Glenn Robinson III/Larry Nance Jr. should be here next year, to go with Hardaway Jr, and little Horford and little Dumars.

The fact that Manny Harris ISN'T here is one of the big reasons they're better this year than last year. Same with Sims.

**DrWho17** · 02-13-2011, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Buddha

The fact that Manny Harris ISN'T here is one of the big reasons they're better this year than last year. Same with Sims.

Doubtful, an unselfish small forward playmaker and a legit PF added to this team would be spectacular. Michigan running out Morris/Hardaway/Harris/Sims/Morgan would be a formidable team.

**Shelton** · 02-13-2011, 12:49 PM

Are you high?

**Shelton** · 02-13-2011, 12:50 PM

Also, sims exhausted his eligibility anyway.

**DrWho17** · 02-13-2011, 02:51 PM

Ugg, that is right, so they would only have a future NBA player (Harris) 3 time member of the All big ten team added to the team.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-13-2011, 03:16 PM

Harris hated playing for Beilein. This team is better without Manny, just the way the team is made up.

**Buddha** · 02-13-2011, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Ugg, that is right, so they would only have a future NBA player (Harris) 3 time member of the All big ten team added to the team.

Did you watch the team last year? Harris refused to play defense, played selfish offense, and sulked his way through the season.

The team is better now because it's Morris' team, not Harris' team. The team buys into the system and so does it's best player. No more standing around watching Harris jack up threes, go back and let his man score, and then sulk his way to the bench.

and, as an aside, the only reason Manny Harris is an NBA player is because he plays on a glorified NBDL team. He's awful.

**Shelton** · 02-13-2011, 04:54 PM

If Harris took over hardaway's role, they would probably be better. Of course manny would never agree to play second fiddle, and we would see a worse version of last year's team with Morgan replacing sims. No thanks. I'll take the young and fun team we have over the hypothetical team we don't. This team was supposed to have a losing record and they are now looking at a 25% chance of making the NCAA. I'll take it and look forward to the next three years.

**belcherboy** · 02-15-2011, 09:55 AM

I probably will jinx them, but how close is Michigan to becoming a NCAA tourney team?

They are 16-10 with this schedule remaining:

Wed, Feb 16 @ llinois
Sat, Feb 19 @ Iowa
Wed, Feb 22 vs Wisconsin
Sat, Feb 26 @ Minnesota
Sat, Mar 5 vs Michigan State

If they can win 3 of those 5 and win a game or two in the Big Ten tourney, does that get them an invite? I'm thinking 20 wins gets them on the bubble, with 21 wins getting them an invite. Although they haven't had very many big wins this season (lots of close games against top 20 teams, but I don't think they have a top 20 win this year) They really need to beat Michigan State again, cause if both teams end up on the bubble, Michigan may get the advantage by sweeping them this year.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-15-2011, 10:15 AM

Well the formula to make the tourney from a big time conference is play at least .500 in your conference and win 20 games. I know Shelton and I discussed this briefly. I think we need 3 of the last 5 and two games in the big ten tourney. 20 wins puts us on the bubble, 21 puts us in.

Have to beat Iowa and MSU. A win over Wisconsin at home would be huge. Im still hoping Michigan can walk into Illinois tomorrow and steal a victory.

**Johnny Mac** · 02-15-2011, 10:18 AM

Like TP said, have to win 3 remaining game + 2 in b11 tourny IMO. They are clearly out now, so they have to do something that gets them in, playing .500 here on out wont move them from clearly out to in.

**Edman85** · 02-15-2011, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Well the formula to make the tourney from a big time conference is play at least .500 in your conference and win 20 games.

That's a myth. Win Top 50 games... As of now, your only Top 50 games are against Harvard and Michigan State. Another win over Sparty, which is an absolute must to even be in the conversation, would knock them out of the top 50.

3-2 plus some noise in the NCAA's is a must for Michigan, and I think 1-4 or 2-3 is more likely at this point.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-15-2011, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Edman85

That's a myth. Win Top 50 games... As of now, your only Top 50 games are against Harvard and Michigan State. Another win over Sparty, which is an absolute must to even be in the conversation, would knock them out of the top 50.

3-2 plus some noise in the NCAA's is a must for Michigan, and I think 1-4 or 2-3 is more likely at this point.

I dont disagree with this. It probably is a myth, but its a good reference point to evaluate where we currently are. Could we finish 1-4? Sure, we have tough games left. But I am happy with the way this team has responded after struggling early. I dont expect to make the tourney, but I am happy to watch some meaningful games while we start 3 freshman and a sophmore.

**Shelton** · 02-15-2011, 11:44 AM

With michigan's current record and remaining schedule, 20 wins is the magic number (including the tourney). That won't assure a bid, but they will be right at the cut line along with a group of similar teams. 21 wins would lock them in.

Please note, I'm not giving weight to the 20 wins theory, just that Michigan happens to need that many this year.

They may not have any top 25 wins, but their worst loss isn't all that bad. Most bubble teams have far worse losses than that.

**RobSk** · 02-15-2011, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by belcherboy

I probably will jinx them, but how close is Michigan to becoming a NCAA tourney team?

They are 16-10 with this schedule remaining:

Wed, Feb 16 @ llinois
Sat, Feb 19 @ Iowa
Wed, Feb 22 vs Wisconsin
Sat, Feb 26 @ Minnesota
Sat, Mar 5 vs Michigan State

To me, the only unwinnable game in there is Illinois. That's a very, very tough game. All the other games are tough, but conceivably winnable. Iowa is definitely beatable. Wisconsin at Crisler is tough, but at least possible, since they've lost to Penn State, Michigan State and Illinois on the road. @Minnesota is also tough, but conceivable. MSU at Crisler will never be easy, but definitely winnable. Beat Iowa, Lose to Illinois, go 2-1 in the other 3 games. Win 1 in the tournament, I think you're in, especially if you can beat Wisconsin. If you're 1-2 in the other two games, you have to win at least 2 in the Big 10 tournament to have a shot.

Rob

**Sparks4Ever** · 02-15-2011, 01:46 PM

3-2 with one win in the BTT and they're a lock. They'll probably have 9 wins against RPI top 75 opponents at that point, maybe 3 or 4 wins against top 50 opponents. Their RPI would be around 35, they'd be 7-3 in their last 10 games. That's a pretty solid tournament resume.

Basically 20 wins, and they're a lock. 19 wins, they're probably the last teams in, or one of the last teams out, more likely out.

**Johnny Mac** · 02-15-2011, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sparks4Ever

3-2 with one win in the BTT and they're a lock.

Doubt it...I mean no one has them in now, and some sites dont even have them close, I dont think going 4-3 down the stretch is enough to impress anyone especially when other bubble teams will finish better and the inevitable surprise conference tourny winner. They may get in with that but in no way would they be a lock. 20 wins and a .500 conference record is not a lock especially when they dont have any marquee wins.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-15-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

Doubt it...I mean no one has them in now, and some sites dont even have them close, I dont think going 4-3 down the stretch is enough to impress anyone especially when other bubble teams will finish better and the inevitable surprise conference tourny winner. They may get in with that but in no way would they be a lock.

I think youre right. This team needs 21 wins. 3 out 5 and 2 in the BTT. Thats what has to happen.

**Johnny Mac** · 02-15-2011, 02:09 PM

I mean ESPN doesn't even have them on the bubble, and their bubble watch was updated through games played yesterday...finishing 4-3 certainly wont be enough to get them in IMO, 5-3 I think they could get in but still would not call it a lock.

College Basketball Bubble Watch - In the soft underbelly of the bubble, Kansas State earns a distinguishing mark Monday - NCAA Men's Basketball - ESPN

**Shelton** · 02-15-2011, 02:19 PM

With all due respect to espn, **** their bubble watch. It's just one site. There are other sites that have Michigan included with the other bubble teams.

**Johnny Mac** · 02-15-2011, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Shelton

With all due respect to espn, **** their bubble watch. It's just one site. There are other sites that have Michigan included with the other bubble teams.

This "bubble" is a lot smaller than most, but CBS doesnt include Michigan either

NCAA College Basketball On the Bubble - CBSSports.com

4-3 down the stretch is not going to impress anyone enough to move them from bottom of the bubble (or off the bubble) to in (especially a 'lock') is my only real point.

**Edman85** · 02-15-2011, 02:41 PM

Yeah, the issue with a lot of the bubble sites is that they don't take future games into consideration. Beat Wisconsin and Illinois and suddenly Michigan goes from a ~55 RPI team with no quality wins to a ~40 RPI team with two quality wins. This year, that makes all the difference in the world.

Also, root like hell for Clemson. If that win starts showing up on the committee's sheets, it can give them pause.

In short, they have opportunity to sneak in. The problem is that it's not likely. Hell, I don't even think they should be favored at Iowa.

**T&P_Fan** · 02-15-2011, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Edman85

Yeah, the issue with a lot of the bubble sites is that they don't take future games into consideration. Beat Wisconsin and Illinois and suddenly Michigan goes from a ~55 RPI team with no quality wins to a ~40 RPI team with two quality wins. This year, that makes all the difference in the world.

Also, root like hell for Clemson. If that win starts showing up on the committee's sheets, it can give them pause.

In short, they have opportunity to sneak in. The problem is that it's not likely. Hell, I don't even think they should be favored at Iowa.

Things are looking good for the next couple seasons though. Lots to be excited about with Michigan bball right now. Even if they dont make the tourney this year, I suspect they will next season.

**Johnny Mac** · 02-15-2011, 02:48 PM

Also I guess the seeding of the big ten tourny will matter some. If Michigan finished 6th in big ten and beats an 11 seed and then loses to a 3 seed, that wont impress anyone. But if they somehow finish 4th or 5th and get a bye and beat the 4/5 seed and then lose to Ohio State in the semifinals, that is a completely different scenario.

**Edman85** · 02-15-2011, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

Also I guess the seeding of the big ten tourny will matter some. If Michigan finished 6th in big ten and beats an 11 seed and then loses to a 3 seed, that wont impress anyone. But if they somehow finish 4th or 5th and get a bye and beat the 4/5 seed and then lose to Ohio State in the semifinals, that is a completely different scenario.

Yeah, I've got them as the 6 beating Iowa and losing to Wisconsin. I agree that Illinois (the likely 4) is a lot more beatable. Michigan, playing Illinois and Minnesota, controls that destiny though. If they win the rest of their regular season games, they are in no problem.

The big thing, though, is that wins over teams like Indiana and Iowa don't really help them except for the fact that they don't hurt them. If that makes any sense at all...

**Shelton** · 02-15-2011, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Edman85

Yeah, the issue with a lot of the bubble sites is that they don't take future games into consideration. Beat Wisconsin and Illinois and suddenly Michigan goes from a ~55 RPI team with no quality wins to a ~40 RPI team with two quality wins. This year, that makes all the difference in the world.

Also, root like hell for Clemson. If that win starts showing up on the committee's sheets, it can give them pause.

In short, they have opportunity to sneak in. The problem is that it's not likely. Hell, I don't even think they should be favored at Iowa.

Problem is that Clemson is a fellow bubble team.

As an aside, the rpi sucks. It's way too heavy on overall record and doesn't take conference strength into account as much as it should. I don't think Iowa and Indiana deserve to be ranked so low.

**Sparks4Ever** · 02-15-2011, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Edman85

Yeah, the issue with a lot of the bubble sites is that they don't take future games into consideration. Beat Wisconsin and Illinois and suddenly Michigan goes from a ~55 RPI team with no quality wins to a ~40 RPI team with two quality wins. This year, that makes all the difference in the world.

Also, root like hell for Clemson. If that win starts showing up on the committee's sheets, it can give them pause.

In short, they have opportunity to sneak in. The problem is that it's not likely. Hell, I don't even think they should be favored at Iowa.

Exactly. Going 3-2 against Michigan's remaining schedule is not easy. 3 away games, 4 games against top 50 opponents. And Johnny Mac mentions going 4-3 in their last 7, well the committee typically looks at the last 10, and they'd be 7-3.

With all this said, they probably only win 2 of their last 5 and miss the tournament.

**Shelton** · 02-15-2011, 06:28 PM

In conclusion, if they win ges they will be in. I hope they win games. Tomorrow would be nice.

**Shelton** · 02-15-2011, 06:52 PM

Ironically, the Illinois game is probably our hardest game remaining, but probably earns us the least amount of credit with the committee if we win. Illinois is currently sitting with an rpi around 43, Wisconsin 15, Minnesota 36.

Rpi is dumb.

**pyrotigers** · 02-15-2011, 10:47 PM

Having Sims over Smotrycz would be a massive upgrade imo, but I have to admit I don't think Harris would be any better than Hardaway Jr.

As for the postseason, well I don't think Michigan will win enough to get into the tourney, but I am pretty happy that they will almost certainly end up in the NIT, and that this late in the season we can seriously talk about the NCAA Tournament.