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  1. #1
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    Default 2013: No one voted into the baseball HOF




    Biggio and Piazza should have been in first ballot. I get the Clemens, McGwire and Bonds snubs.
    On my head there is a battleground. The peaceful indigenous peppers are being invaded by the cruel and aggressive salts who have sought to commit genocide on the peppers. The peppers have managed to starve off the salts to the north which has unfortunately resulted in some uninhabitable areas in the backwoods area. The salts now claim ownership to the temple and beard regions. VT

  2. #2
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    As angry as people will be about Morris. Trammel and Whitaker deserve it more than he does.
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    Those 2 deserve it far more. The baseball writers should all have their votes stripped after this. Its embarassing. Its ridiculous. For one, there are guys like Biggio who deserve to get in and didn't do steroids. For two, I don't believe its their job to police steroids. If MLB didn't remove their numbers,put an asterisk by them or ban the players from baseball, then they should be considered as is. What a dark day for the sport.

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    One idiot voted for Aaron Sele. That writer should be barred from MLB parks forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMRivdog View Post
    One idiot voted for Aaron Sele. That writer should be barred from MLB parks forever
    It has to be a relative or a High School teammate.

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    What about Jeff Bagwell? Mike Piazza? Biggio? The voters are a bunch of narcissistic, self worshiping bunch of losers. They must really hate their lives.

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    http://www.freep.com/article/2013010...102/1050/rss15
    Kaline and Gossage come across as really grumpy old men. Everybody knows that the players in their era were so pristine and pure that it would taint the very air were those creepy druggies allowed to invade their shrine. Get over yourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben9753 View Post
    What about Jeff Bagwell? Mike Piazza? Biggio? The voters are a bunch of narcissistic, self worshiping bunch of losers. They must really hate their lives.
    Oh come on... It's hard to get in on the first ballot. Those are for the best of the best. Those guys will get in, probably next year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Oh come on... It's hard to get in on the first ballot. Those are for the best of the best. Those guys will get in, probably next year.
    Piazza is probably the greatest hitting C ever. How is that not an all time great by definition? And it's not Bagwells first time.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Oh come on... It's hard to get in on the first ballot. Those are for the best of the best. Those guys will get in, probably next year.
    Going to be difficult with Maddux and Glavine, but they'll get in eventually.
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    I wouldn't let steroids keep anyone from the hall. Players have spent the history of the game trying to get that added edge. It's idiotic to think there are people in the hall that didn't do something illegal to attempt to get an edge.

    The entire world knew there was a steroid issue when it was happening, yet baseball prospered and while some was said about it, it was supported by people's actions - supporting the game. And now we shun them. Doesn't make sense to me.
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    From the above link:

    And how did it happen? The sport let it happen. That's how.

    Bud Selig let it happen. The union let it happen. The owners let it happen. The managers let it happen. The agents let it happen. The media let it happen. Front offices across the continent let it happen. And the players never stepped up to stop it from happening.


    I'd like to add that fans allowed it to happen by supporting a game they knew was juiced.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DTroppens View Post
    I wouldn't let steroids keep anyone from the hall. Players have spent the history of the game trying to get that added edge. It's idiotic to think there are people in the hall that didn't do something illegal to attempt to get an edge.

    The entire world knew there was a steroid issue when it was happening, yet baseball prospered and while some was said about it, it was supported by people's actions - supporting the game. And now we shun them. Doesn't make sense to me.
    This is why I think a stronger component of a player's evaluation has to be relative to the other players of his time, instead of the comparison being weighted so heavily against the yardstick of all time counting stats, which it sometimes seems is how voters have looked at it. This approach solves the problem for both 'era of the pitcher' and 'steroid era' players, reweighting up the performances of the stars of the former and properly raising the bar for the latter. To me, a hall of fame player is best defined by the degree that he separated himself from the other players he played with. Some argue that this is not a good approach because there may been a time when - for instance - all the shortstops were bad so even the ones who stood out significantly in that period were not deserving. But I question that on statistical grounds. I find it much easier to believe the game shifted in some way that affected the statistics for shortstops than that suddenly the population stopped producing any great ones.

    Of course any approach will produce some level of unjust outcomes, but I think a stronger dose of peer comparison would produce fewer.
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    This is an outrage. How did we get to this point? Anyone who claims they "know" Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell, or Craig Biggio used steroids, and therefore deserve to be "punished", should have their voting privileges revoked.

    And why is "steroids" automatic exclusion from the HOF, but amphetamines, spousal abuse, faking injuries, womanizing, spitballing, cocaine, pine tar, alcohol abuse, bat-corking, sign-stealing, racism, or cheating on taxes isn't? The faux outrage is deafening...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayVee View Post
    This is an outrage. How did we get to this point? Anyone who claims they "know" Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell, or Craig Biggio used steroids, and therefore deserve to be "punished", should have their voting privileges revoked.

    And why is "steroids" automatic exclusion from the HOF, but amphetamines, spousal abuse, faking injuries, womanizing, spitballing, cocaine, pine tar, alcohol abuse, bat-corking, sign-stealing, racism, or cheating on taxes isn't? The faux outrage is deafening...
    Especially when the steroid era was tacitly endorsed by many of these same writers. Now they decide that they will be the ones to punish steroid users. How many of these same writers, knowing that McGwire and Sosa were juicing at the time, fawned over them and made their careers extolling their virtues now decide that they don't deserve to be sent to the HOF.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayVee View Post
    This is an outrage. How did we get to this point? Anyone who claims they "know" Mike Piazza, Jeff Bagwell, or Craig Biggio used steroids, and therefore deserve to be "punished", should have their voting privileges revoked.

    And why is "steroids" automatic exclusion from the HOF, but amphetamines, spousal abuse, faking injuries, womanizing, spitballing, cocaine, pine tar, alcohol abuse, bat-corking, sign-stealing, racism, or cheating on taxes isn't? The faux outrage is deafening...
    Quote Originally Posted by ben9753 View Post
    Especially when the steroid era was tacitly endorsed by many of these same writers. Now they decide that they will be the ones to punish steroid users. How many of these same writers, knowing that McGwire and Sosa were juicing at the time, fawned over them and made their careers extolling their virtues now decide that they don't deserve to be sent to the HOF.

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    On my head there is a battleground. The peaceful indigenous peppers are being invaded by the cruel and aggressive salts who have sought to commit genocide on the peppers. The peppers have managed to starve off the salts to the north which has unfortunately resulted in some uninhabitable areas in the backwoods area. The salts now claim ownership to the temple and beard regions. VT

  18. #18
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    Sportswriters have been the judge and jury since the creation of the HOF. It is the Baseball Writers Association of America who have always been the voters (in fact I believe they created the HOF). The sportswriters were responsible for voting in racists like Cobb and Hornsby, the drinkers of the 40s and 50s, the amphetamine users of the 60s, cookers of the 70s an 80s. The PED group, those who have l "lied", they're out, at least for the time being. If you want to be mad at the BWAA, be mad at the double standard.
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    I bet that Pudge will have a hard time getting in when his time comes. I remember when he was with the Tigers and they always said "Future Hall of Famer", I always thought "Hmmmm. Maybe."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antrat View Post
    I bet that Pudge will have a hard time getting in when his time comes. I remember when he was with the Tigers and they always said "Future Hall of Famer", I always thought "Hmmmm. Maybe."
    How ridiculous is a HOF that is without Rose, Bonds, Clemens, Manny, ARod, Pudge, Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire, Sheffield, David Ortiz? There's probably more, but you get the idea. It's pretty much saying: this era was a figment of your imagination. It never happened. Come into our little time machine in Cooperstown, and we'll prove it to you.

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    Cooperstown is one of my favorite towns in New York State... however, I will not be visiting the HOF until they rectify this situation. The Baseball HOF was designed as an elaborate tourist trap in the first place, guys like Biggio and Piazza, let alone the steroid users, deserve more deference than they are getting.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben9753 View Post
    How ridiculous is a HOF that is without Rose, <snip>.
    Not ridiculous at all.
    On my head there is a battleground. The peaceful indigenous peppers are being invaded by the cruel and aggressive salts who have sought to commit genocide on the peppers. The peppers have managed to starve off the salts to the north which has unfortunately resulted in some uninhabitable areas in the backwoods area. The salts now claim ownership to the temple and beard regions. VT

  23. #23
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    Also, Rose is not eligible for the HoF because Pete agreed to be on the permanently ineligible from baseball list. That wasn't a decision made by Cooperstown or the writers.

    If Rose were eligible, I wonder if he wouldn't get in, as he was tremendously popular with the press for a long time. That written, it is possible a lot of those guys either feel betrayed or have been replaced by younger writers who didn't have personal experiences with the guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtutiger View Post
    Cooperstown is one of my favorite towns in New York State... however, I will not be visiting the HOF until they rectify this situation. The Baseball HOF was designed as an elaborate tourist trap in the first place, guys like Biggio and Piazza, let alone the steroid users, deserve more deference than they are getting.
    You should still go. Just stay away from the plaque room which is not very interesting anyway. Bonds, Clemens, Biggio, Piazza, etc can be found in other parts of the museum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtutiger View Post
    Cooperstown is one of my favorite towns in New York State... however, I will not be visiting the HOF until they rectify this situation. The Baseball HOF was designed as an elaborate tourist trap in the first place, guys like Biggio and Piazza, let alone the steroid users, deserve more deference than they are getting.
    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    You should still go. Just stay away from the plaque room which is not very interesting anyway. Bonds, Clemens, Biggio, Piazza, etc can be found in other parts of the museum.
    I found the room with the plaques to be boring as well. There was so much more interesting memoribilia throughout the hall of fame that it does make a trip worthwhile for a baseball fan. When I went, I saw a display with jerseys and cleats from Trammell and Whitaker, so I can sort of say I saw them in the hall of fame even if they weren't voted in.

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    Pete Rose should never, ever get into the Hall of Fame without paying for a ticket. Unlike the steroid users, Rose put himself in a position of cheating to lose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasfh View Post
    Pete Rose should never, ever get into the Hall of Fame without paying for a ticket. Unlike the steroid users, Rose put himself in a position of cheating to lose.
    This is the correct opinion. That said, Rose's accomplishments are acknowledged in the HOF but he doesn't have a plaque.
    On my head there is a battleground. The peaceful indigenous peppers are being invaded by the cruel and aggressive salts who have sought to commit genocide on the peppers. The peppers have managed to starve off the salts to the north which has unfortunately resulted in some uninhabitable areas in the backwoods area. The salts now claim ownership to the temple and beard regions. VT

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasfh View Post
    Pete Rose should never, ever get into the Hall of Fame without paying for a ticket. Unlike the steroid users, Rose put himself in a position of cheating to lose.
    Not to defend Rose, but couldn't you say the same about Cobb and Speaker?

    Or can you argue different times?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMRivdog View Post
    Not to defend Rose, but couldn't you say the same about Cobb and Speaker?

    Or can you argue different times?
    Technically, you'd have to argue "different times" because Landis did not pass the rule barring players for life for betting on their own team until after this incident (in fact, in response to this incident after the case had closed). It's not ethical for a ruling body to pass a new rule or law in order to prosecute infractions occurring prior to its passage.

    My opinion is, just because Cobb and Speaker stay in the game on the ex post facto technicality, that does not mean Pete Rose should be reinstated and elected to the Hall. Rose was responsible for knowing upfront what the consequences were.

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    I'm not totally shocked by the outcome of the vote, but to me it makes a statement about how the current bloc of writers will vote for players that played within the steroid era. I will not be surprised if players like Jeter or Cabrera or whomever that started their careers during the steroid era are not voted in first ballot, let alone the second ballot. Voting them in that quickly would to me seem hypocritical.
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