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  1. #441
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    DKnobler DKnobler
    One more on Cespedes: Has told people he plans to live long-term in DR rather than Miami, may not even want to go to Marlins.
    10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

    DKnobler DKnobler
    Also on Cespedes, hear that there is also divide on him in Marlins front office, and they may not go as heavy as most suspect.
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  2. #442
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    DKnobler DKnobler
    On Cespedes, appears neither Yankees nor Red Sox will be in heavy on him. Divide in NYY front office, so maybe could change in their case.

    DKnobler DKnobler
    Also on Cespedes, hear that there is also divide on him in Marlins front office, and they may not go as heavy as most suspect.
    9 minutes ago

    DKnobler DKnobler
    One more on Cespedes: Has told people he plans to live long-term in DR rather than Miami, may not even want to go to Marlins.
    8 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

  3. #443
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    PuNk42AE @PuNk42AE
    Rumor is that Cespedes will sign a contract with a team at some point. #No Way
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  4. #444
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  5. #445
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    Yankees, Red Sox may not bid high on Cespedes - CBSSports.com

    The interest in Cespedes remains strong, and the market could change by the time he becomes a free agent, which should happen in January. The Cubs, Tigers, Nationals, White Sox and Rays, among other teams, are still expected to pursue him.

    Because of the strong interest, the belief is that Cespedes will still get as much as $40 million, even if the Yankees and Red Sox hold back from heavy bidding. One possible issue is that Cespedes' agents apparently want him to go straight to the major leagues, while many if not most scouts believe that he should spend time in the minor leagues first.

  6. #446
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    This is unqualified good news. I think this might be the best news I've heard all offseason.

  7. #447
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    I can't see the Rays being able to afford him and with the pay raise for Danks and having to pay Dunn and Rios I don't see the White Sox outbidding us. I see the Cubs pushing for Fielder which will take them out which just leaves us and the Nationals and I feel confident we can beat them out.
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  8. #448
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    I wouldn't make too much out of those reports. No team that is going after Cespedes is going to brag about how much money they want to spend on him and drive up the market price before the bidding even begins.

    But I really don't think the Yankees or Red Sox are going to spend a ton on him. Neither team has heavily bid on anyone else, and both are near their payroll limits. Both teams want to avoid the salary luxury tax, as well. I doubt they'd stay out of all the other bidding and then go all in on Cespedes. Plus, if either of those teams were going to spend, you'd think they'd be spending it on their rotations, and not another outfielder.

    Also, the Cubs are probably not in the right position to add salary right now, and are arguably in full rebuilding mode. As for the Rays and the White Sox, we can outbid them.

    I'm still worried about the Marlins though. They do have the money to spend obviously, and could use someone in CF.
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  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff6851 View Post
    I can't see the Rays being able to afford him and with the pay raise for Danks and having to pay Dunn and Rios I don't see the White Sox outbidding us. I see the Cubs pushing for Fielder which will take them out which just leaves us and the Nationals and I feel confident we can beat them out.
    Yes everyone seems to think that the Cubs are the only team with a need for a first baseman that will pay for Fielder. I agree about Rios and Dunn too, and that's why I'm always leery of saying "go ahead and sign so and so, it's not my money". A guy like Rios not only stinks on the field, but sucks up so much payroll for so many years that it is difficult for the team to acquire decent players. So, I like the Tigers' chances on Cespedes. He'd be an exciting guy to follow, I'd love to see him start in Toledo - that would generate a lot of additional interest in those games for sure.

  10. #450
    Charles Liston is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoBert View Post
    DKnobler DKnobler
    One more on Cespedes: Has told people he plans to live long-term in DR rather than Miami...
    Why? Cuz Miami is too Hispanic?

  11. #451
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    The Nationals feel like the biggest threat for Cespedes to me. They spend money and they could use a CF.

  12. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Nastradamus, I appreciate your consideration of Cespedes and what his ceiling is (producing like Matt Kemp or Justin Upton) and I'd happily concede that it is entirely possible- he could be the next Roberto Clemente, who knows. BUT, I just have too many questions about him for me to say the Tigers should "go all in" on him. Here’s my main two issues;

    1) Has Cespedes ever used PED's?. The correct answer is we may never know. I know that there will be drug tests and background checks done, but in the time it takes for him to get residency in Dominican Republic I'm pretty sure there would be enough time for him and his agent to make sure that he'd pass a PED test and I'm sure Cuban officials will be happy to let anyone into Cuba to interview anyone associated with Cespedes that a team might be curious about- no problem at all.

    2) The level of competition in Cuba. What would you place the Cuban leagues level of talent MLB equivalent at: AA or A level? Yea, it's great he's pounding AA quality pitchers, but what will he do in a MLB uniform against some of the best pitchers in the world? It's nice to think Cespedes will continue to crush all opposition but seriously... Look at the top AA prospects in MLB baseball right now and say, to yourself something like,

    "Hey! Starling Marte (at AA for the Pirates & Eastern League Batting Champ 2011) is a five tool player and we should pay him $8-10M per year for say 4-6 years and make him the new Tigers starting LF-RIGHT NOW!"

    How does that feel going down off your tongue? Sort of silly? Perhaps Marte will turn out to be the next Kemp or Upton too, who knows. But what I'm really worried about is paying Cespedes $8-10M+ per year to "find his swing" at AAA or AA for say 4-6 years. Also there really isn't a huge trade market in struggling minor league players making a $8-10M million dollars per year either.

    Cespedes undeniably has a very high ceiling, however you cannot ignore that he also has what will be an incredibly expensive and long term floor if he goes bust. To me Cespedes should be looked at like an organization's top prospect (invested in and groomed and allowed to progress at his own pace through the minor league system) than as a teams savior to be immediately thrust into a MLB starting roll and still expected to give a decent production. (the Tigers would let Delmon Young leave to save money and experiment with Cespede's full time at the major league level? really?)

    I don't have any problem with anyone having a different view of Cespedes than I do- he's going to be a very interesting player to watch for sure. I just think in the end another team will throw caution, good sense and a whole lot of money to the wind and roll the dice on Cespedes and that team will not be named the Tigers.
    I get what you are saying, but its probably overstated. He's not the first guy to come over from Cuba and he's 26, he's not an A ball guy who has to still develop. He either has it or doesn't at this point really. I admittedly am no scout, but I am going based off of what I have heard so far and trusting in DD and his scouts to have at least a basic idea of what Cespedes is as a player.

    Also realize, if Cespedes had already shown he could produce like Kemp, he'd get a lot more than 8-10 million. Kemp got 8/160 for some reference. Plus power hitters and defenders who can handle CF are both rare commoditites in MLB and Cespedes is both in one package.

    Edit - you can ask about PEDs with any player.
    Last edited by Nastradamus; 12-24-2011 at 11:54 AM.

  13. #453
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    I think the DD is looking to allocate some of the amatuer draft budget dollars, that will be capped due to the new CBA, on him. According to Leyland they don't have alot to spend right now. It wouldn't make sense for them to bypass Aram, Beuhrle and others and then spend 50M on this guy. He's unproven, may not help right away, and doesn't really address their biggest needs.

    My guess is they offer about 25-30M over 6 years and wind up losing out to another team.

  14. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley68 View Post
    I think the DD is looking to allocate some of the amatuer draft budget dollars, that will be capped due to the new CBA, on him. According to Leyland they don't have alot to spend right now. It wouldn't make sense for them to bypass Aram, Beuhrle and others and then spend 50M on this guy. He's unproven, may not help right away, and doesn't really address their biggest needs.

    My guess is they offer about 25-30M over 6 years and wind up losing out to another team.
    Even if they spend 50 million on this guy, it would come out to paying about half of what they would have paid Aram, Beuhrle, and the other marquee free agents.

    So them passing up on them says absolutely nothing about how much they are willing/have to spend on Cespedes.

  15. #455
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    Unless the Nationals or some team goes Jayson Werth on him, I think the Tigers will sign Cespedes. Dombrowski/Illitch have never shown so much interest in a player and not gotten him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerNation View Post
    Even if they spend 50 million on this guy, it would come out to paying about half of what they would have paid Aram, Beuhrle, and the other marquee free agents.

    So them passing up on them says absolutely nothing about how much they are willing/have to spend on Cespedes.
    Aram got 3 years 36M and Beuhrle got 4 years 58M. Cespedes at 6 years and 50M is definately comparable and more than half.

    I'm sure they want him but i believe them to some degree when they say they don't have alot to spend on free agents. And if they do get him it will be interesting to see how that effects the spnding on the draft.

  17. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Unless the Nationals or some team goes Jayson Werth on him, I think the Tigers will sign Cespedes. Dombrowski/Illitch have never shown so much interest in a player and not gotten him.
    Well I'm sure they have a limit i just think it is way lower than 50M.

  18. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Unless the Nationals or some team goes Jayson Werth on him, I think the Tigers will sign Cespedes. Dombrowski/Illitch have never shown so much interest in a player and not gotten him.
    I agree...when they decide they want someone, they get them. I also think other teams know this. Maybe that's why the Marlins are saying they're not really interested.
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  19. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Unless the Nationals or some team goes Jayson Werth on him, I think the Tigers will sign Cespedes. Dombrowski/Illitch have never shown so much interest in a player and not gotten him.
    I think/hope you might be right. Signing Cespedes would be a nice late holiday gift.
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  20. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    I agree...when they decide they want someone, they get them. I also think other teams know this. Maybe that's why the Marlins are saying they're not really interested.
    Or, regardless of the Tiger's unmatched and unrivaled ability to get a desired player, perhaps the Marlins are just not really interested in Cespedes to begin with....
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  21. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Or, regardless of the Tiger's unmatched and unrivaled ability to get a desired player, perhaps the Marlins are just not really interested in Cespedes to begin with....
    Who cares either way. But there were enough rumors early on to support Couga's theory that they were interested in, than your theory that they never were.

    And nobody ever said they were unmatched and unrivaled, so I don't know why you threw that little quip in there.
    Last edited by Yoda; 12-24-2011 at 02:56 PM.
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  22. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Who cares either way. But there were enough rumors early on to support Couga's theory that they were interested in, than your theory that they never were.
    I'm sure countless other GM's lose tons of sleep over worrying about if Dave Dombrowski is going to be going after the same player that they want too. Because a lot like Chuck Norris, other baseball teams have players because Dave Dombrowski allows them have those players....

    Right?



    (For the record, I think Cespedes would be a "perfect" fit for the Marlins and I'm never said they wouldn't be interested in him. I just think other teams are looking harder at Cespedes and the asking price and saying "thanks...but no..." -and not because they are afraid to get in a bidding war with Dave Dombrowski)
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  23. #463
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    Knobler keeps tweeting that most scouts think Cespedes should start out in the minors. I wonder if that's one of the reasons the Marlins don't really have a ton of interest in him. If they're going to sign big guys for the grand opening of their new stadium to sell season tickets, it only really makes sense if they're on the roster for opening day.
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  24. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm sure countless other GM's lose tons of sleep over worrying about if Dave Dombrowski is going to be going after the same player that they want too. Because a lot like Chuck Norris, other baseball teams have players because Dave Dombrowski allows them have those players....

    Right?

    (For the record, I think Cespedes would be a "perfect" fit for the Marlins and I'm never said they wouldn't be interested in him. I just think other teams are looking harder at Cespedes and the asking price and saying "thanks...but no..." -and not because they are afraid to get in a bidding war with Dave Dombrowski)
    You don't have to be afraid to get into a bidding war to realize that bidding is going to be futile because someone else you know is determined to outbid you. It's the same reason we didn't bid on Darvish at all. I'm sure we would have loved to negotiate with him, but we knew other teams had more interest and were willing to pay a ridiculous price.
    Distribution of wealth is not in any way democratic. It is, in fact, tyrannical, in that a very select few own almost all of it, while most have little to no access. To have a country that prioritizes wealth over individual rights is the antithesis of democracy.

  25. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    I'm sure countless other GM's lose tons of sleep over worrying about if Dave Dombrowski is going to be going after the same player that they want too. Because a lot like Chuck Norris, other baseball teams have players because Dave Dombrowski allows them have those players....

    Right?



    (For the record, I think Cespedes would be a "perfect" fit for the Marlins and I'm never said they wouldn't be interested in him. I just think other teams are looking harder at Cespedes and the asking price and saying "thanks...but no..." -and not because they are afraid to get in a bidding war with Dave Dombrowski)
    Who gives a **** about asking price. What players/agents ask doesn't mean a thing. It's an auction. Teams bid against each other. There isn't some "buy it now" button like on Ebay.

    It's a perfectly reasonable theory that if teams are dropping out before the bidding even begins, it's a likely indicator that they don't feel they can outbid another team(s). I guarantee you it has absolutely nothing to do with some "asking price".
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  26. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    You don't have to be afraid to get into a bidding war to realize that bidding is going to be futile because someone else you know is determined to outbid you. It's the same reason we didn't bid on Darvish at all. I'm sure we would have loved to negotiate with him, but we knew other teams had more interest and were willing to pay a ridiculous price.
    Thanks for bringing this up!

    It's been mentioned that there is a perception that "Dombrowski gets his man". This is not quite true when it comes to free agents.

    What is the most money the Dombrowski lead Tigers gave out in terms of a contract to a free agent? Yes, Cabrera and Verlander are making $20M this year (big salaries and worth every penny) but both those players were under TEAM CONTROL when they resigned new contract extensions. Same with Dontrelle Willis and Gary Shefield, they were in Tiger uniforms when they signed new contract extensions. The players simply were not free agents at the time Dombrowski re-signed them to new contracts.

    Off the top of my head for free agent signings, Victor Martinez's 4 year $50M deal comes to mind. Then there was Jose Valverde's not quite record setting 3 year $23M deal. Let's go back to 2004, Ivan Rodreguez's "monster" 4 year $40M contract. To put the I-Rod signing in perspective, even when I-Rod made the most money he ever make in a Tiger uniform in 2008 at $12,379,883, this did not even put I-Rod in the top 25 highest salary players for 2008 (Miguel Tejada was last on the top 25 list with a salary of $14,811,414 for 2008).

    I'm wracking my brain for other examples where Dave Dombrowski simply "get's his man" in free agency by going to the bank to outbid some other team and I'm not really coming up with anything. Maybe you guys have better examples than I can think of, but honestly so far as I have found, The perception is that Dave Dombrowski will simply outbid any other team "to get is man" is looking right now to be a bit of a stretch to me so far....
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCouga View Post
    Knobler keeps tweeting that most scouts think Cespedes should start out in the minors. I wonder if that's one of the reasons the Marlins don't really have a ton of interest in him. If they're going to sign big guys for the grand opening of their new stadium to sell season tickets, it only really makes sense if they're on the roster for opening day.
    +1

    I agree with you.

    I think that's what the Yankees and Red Soxs are hearing that as well from their scouts. To me, exactly as you say, Miami has a large Cuban community and having a "home town hero" play for your local Miami Marlins seems like a good match. But you are also correct in that no team is going to want to spend "crazy money" for Cespedes- the question is how much money is crazy to each MLB team that is interested in Cespedes....

    At times, bidding on a free agent player reminds me of war. Napoleon Bonaparte once said something to the effect of;

    "Never interrupt an enemy when he is about to make a mistake...."
    Last edited by STLTiger69; 12-24-2011 at 04:02 PM.
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  28. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley68 View Post
    Aram got 3 years 36M and Beuhrle got 4 years 58M. Cespedes at 6 years and 50M is definately comparable and more than half.

    I'm sure they want him but i believe them to some degree when they say they don't have alot to spend on free agents. And if they do get him it will be interesting to see how that effects the spnding on the draft.
    I was talking about on a per year basis.

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    Rodriguez and Ordonez were two examples of players that were big risks (due to health concerns) and the Tigers overpaid to get them. Going over slot to get Maybin and Porcello are two more examples. They weren't free agents, but teams could have drafted them earlier if they really wanted to spend the money. These are all examples of players that were reasonably affordable and the Tigers were more willing to take the risk than other teams. Cespedes seems to fit in the same category. It's difficult to think of players that the Tigers really seemed to want and failed to get. When they don't get somebody, it usually seems to be a matter of wealthy teams going way beyond what the Tigers can reasonably afford.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Rodriguez and Ordonez were two examples of players that were big risks (due to health concerns) and the Tigers overpaid to get them. Going over slot to get Maybin and Porcello are two more examples. They weren't free agents, but teams could have drafted them earlier if they really wanted to spend the money. These are all examples of players that were reasonably affordable and the Tigers were more willing to take the risk than other teams. Cespedes seems to fit in the same category. It's difficult to think of players that the Tigers really seemed to want and failed to get. When they don't get somebody, it usually seems to be a matter of wealthy teams going way beyond what the Tigers can reasonably afford.
    I forgot about Ordonez!

    And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said;


    "These are all examples of players that were reasonably affordable and the Tigers were more willing to take the risk than other teams."

    So, my question is does anyone think Cespedes will be "reasonably affordable" for the Tigers to get?
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  31. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    So, my question is does anyone think Cespedes will be "reasonably affordable" for the Tigers to get?
    The fact that Dombrowski personally went down to the Dominican to watch him work out tells me that they think they can get him. Apparently that's the only time Dombrowski went to scout an international player in person. The Tigers must have some rough idea of how much Cespedes will cost and I doubt DD would have gone out of his way to view him if he thought he'd be too expensive. Now, if some team goes way above what other teams expect, the Tigers might drop out, but it appears they expect him to fit their budget if things don't get crazy.
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    The minors thing could work in the Tigers' favor if they're willing to put him in Detroit right away. But all along I've also been wondering if playing CF will be a factor in his decision, and that could work against us. I doubt the Tigers would move Jackson over to a corner, same with the Yankees and Granderson. The Nationals, Marlins, White Sox, Cubs and others can offer him CF. In the end, though, I suppose whoever offers the most money will get him.

  33. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley68 View Post
    I think the DD is looking to allocate some of the amatuer draft budget dollars, that will be capped due to the new CBA, on him. According to Leyland they don't have alot to spend right now. It wouldn't make sense for them to bypass Aram, Beuhrle and others and then spend 50M on this guy. He's unproven, may not help right away, and doesn't really address their biggest needs.

    My guess is they offer about 25-30M over 6 years and wind up losing out to another team.
    Actually it might be exactly why they didn't show interest in the players mentioned above, so, in fact, they could allocate the bucks to Cespedes. Makes perfect sense to me, IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    The fact that Dombrowski personally went down to the Dominican to watch him work out tells me that they think they can get him. Apparently that's the only time Dombrowski went to scout an international player in person. The Tigers must have some rough idea of how much Cespedes will cost and I doubt DD would have gone out of his way to view him if he thought he'd be too expensive. Now, if some team goes way above what other teams expect, the Tigers might drop out, but it appears they expect him to fit their budget if things don't get crazy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    The fact that Dombrowski personally went down to the Dominican to watch him work out tells me that they think they can get him. Apparently that's the only time Dombrowski went to scout an international player in person. The Tigers must have some rough idea of how much Cespedes will cost and I doubt DD would have gone out of his way to view him if he thought he'd be too expensive. Now, if some team goes way above what other teams expect, the Tigers might drop out, but it appears they expect him to fit their budget if things don't get crazy.
    Especially because they havent made any other moves that cost money besides Dotel. This tells me that they're playing the waiting game, and he's absolutely in the budget. Honestly, they've probably had dialogue with Cespedes' agent, and know what the deal is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    Especially because they havent made any other moves that cost money besides Dotel. This tells me that they're playing the waiting game, and he's absolutely in the budget. Honestly, they've probably had dialogue with Cespedes' agent, and know what the deal is.
    And the Yankees and Red Soxs have spent exactly how much this off season on free agents? Cleveland had a "aggressive offer" for Beltran just a few days ago, how did that work out for Cleveland? If Cleveland had the money and the need for Beltran and came up short, I wonder who else Cleveland might look at next don't you? Anyone hear the rumors that the Blue Jays were going to go big for Pujols and CJ. Wilson- what spending has the Blue Jays done so far, what are they waiting for? Just because the Tigers have not spent big so far does not mean they will go big for Cespedes in the end.

    I'm with you guys in that Dombrowski wouldn't have went to DR if the Tigers were not interested. BUT, The question is AFTER the meeting and Dombrowski had a chance to talk with Cespedes agent(s), consulting with Tiger scouts and probably Mr. Ilitch himself- are the Tigers still interested? I do appreciate the fact that Dave Dombrowski wanted to visit Cespedes in person in the Dominican Republic during a winter in Detroit, and I'm sure that it will have a inordinately large impact when Cespedes and his agent have a final discussion of which team submitted the highest offer-(or,...perhaps not).
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    I have no clue what sort of point you're trying to make, if any. I feel like you're just arguing with yourself at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I have no clue what sort of point you're trying to make, if any. I feel like you're just arguing with yourself at this point.
    Lets see, Dombrowski went to see Cespedes for himself;

    1) no "official" word that Dombrowski as high after the meeting on Cespedes as he was before the meeting.

    AND

    2) (and not suprisingly) not a word to what degree the Tigers may still be interested.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLTiger69 View Post
    Lets see, Dombrowski went to see Cespedes for himself;

    1) no "official" word that Dombrowski as high after the meeting on Cespedes as he was before the meeting.

    AND

    2) (and not suprisingly) not a word to what degree the Tigers may still be interested.
    When has dombrowski and staff ever made it public they were interested in anybody? This isn't any different. The fact people even know that DD made a trip to go see this guy is surprising, usually he doesn't even let something like that slip out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysthrowheat View Post
    When has dombrowski and staff ever made it public they were interested in anybody? This isn't any different. The fact people even know that DD made a trip to go see this guy is surprising, usually he doesn't even let something like that slip out.

    "Dombrowski: Tigers unlikely to bid on Reyes, Rolllins, Ramirez"

    From the Article;

    "Credit MLB Network Radio’s Jim Bowden for his interview Friday afternoon with Dave Dombrowski, who reiterated his stance that aren’t going to be getting into a bidding frenzy on Jose Reyes, or Jimmy Rollins, or Aramis Ramirez."

    Dombrowski: "You’ve got two $20 million guys, and in our market, you can only have so many of those type of guys. So I would doubt it, but again, you never know where dollars end up and what may fall through as the winter goes on.”

    And

    "Dombrowski also said emphatically that they’ll offer Delmon Young a contract.


    Dombrowski: “I mean, we’re not going to non-tender Delmon Young. I mean, that’s just not going to happen,”


    Dombrowski: Tigers unlikely to bid on Reyes, Rolllins, Ramirez « Beck's Blog
    “Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock.” -Will Rogers

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