11/8/09. Lions @ Seahawks. FOX, 4:05 pm. Week 9.

[dadair6]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Pass rusher. Offensive line. Get better up front and the rest will fall into place.

Isn't that what we've said for the last 10 years?

[number20]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

People can bring up other reasons why the Lions are going to lose this game, but it comes down to ONE THING - five interceptions.

That's all that needs to be said. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic display by your No. 1 draft pick rookie QB - especially after a 17-0 lead.

C'mon how can you say that after only 5 interceptions in one game? He's show improvement every week!

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by dadair6

Isn't that what we've said for the last 10 years?

The problem is talent evaluation

Last 10 years (Since '99)
O-Line
Aaron Gibson - 1st round
Stockar McDougle - 1st round
Jeff Backus - 1st round
Dominic Raiola - 2nd round
Gosder Cherilus - 1st round

D Lineman
Cliff Avril - 3rd round
Alama-Francis - 2nd round
Kalimbust - 2nd round
Jared DeVries - 3rd round
Shaun Rogers - 2nd
Cory Redding - 3rd
Shaun Cody - 2nd
Andre Fluellen - 3rd

With all those top 3 round picks (all towards the top of the rounds almost), we should have gotten at least a couple solid starters.

[Scottwood]

Originally Posted by Buddha

BTW: Have we all gotten off the "Kevin Smith is awesome" bandwagon now?

Pass rusher. Offensive line. Get better up front and the rest will fall into place.

Smith is good enough. Certainly not a game breaker but the Pats won several Super Bowls with just adequate play at RB. We definitely should try to hit the lines in next draft, though. Of course, we are basically below average at every position, so any pick would still qualify as filling a need.

[Porcelain God]

Those were five really bad interceptions. It's not like they were tipped or the wide receiver didn't go after it. He made the wrong read each time.

[DrWho17]

Staffords problems from college are even more apparent in the pro's. He's not accurate enough for the NFL, against collegiate d-backs he could get away with that stuff but not in the NFL. His footwork is terrible as well, if he's moving there is little hope the pass will be completed and if it is the receiver will have to make a great catch because the ball is thrown at an odd spot.

Stafford needs a lot of work, when you can't complete passes to Calvin Johnson because of your accuracy, you aren't good enough for the NFL.

The game was lost entirely by Stafford today, I'd like to see somebody get up in his grill, as he has no problems showing up other players on the field. Calvin Johnson was obviously mad at him, but he didn't blow up at him, would like to have seen that. Stafford looked to me like he didn't care too much.

[DrWho17]

Originally Posted by Scottwood

Smith is good enough. Certainly not a game breaker but the Pats won several Super Bowls with just adequate play at RB. We definitely should try to hit the lines in next draft, though. Of course, we are basically below average at every position, so any pick would still qualify as filling a need.

Smith isn't good enough, he has poor instincts. If he has the choice to cut to a open lane or to a linebacker 99% of the time he chooses the linebacker. I'd rather see Maurice Morris in there.

[DrWho17]

The only bright spot on this Lions team, is that they appear to have overall had a good haul from last years draft.

Pettigrew/Delmas/Levy/Hill/Brown/Williams have all contributed and some look like they may turn out to be above slot talents.

[Tramfan]

I for one wouldn't mind having a true difference maker at running back. However, we obviously need to address other areas beforehand, like the defensive line for example.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

The problem is talent evaluation

Last 10 years (Since '99)
O-Line
Aaron Gibson - 1st round
Stockar McDougle - 1st round
Jeff Backus - 1st round
Dominic Raiola - 2nd round
Gosder Cherilus - 1st round

D Lineman
Cliff Avril - 3rd round
Alama-Francis - 2nd round
Kalimbust - 2nd round
Jared DeVries - 3rd round
Shaun Rogers - 2nd
Cory Redding - 3rd
Shaun Cody - 2nd
Andre Fluellen - 3rd

With all those top 3 round picks (all towards the top of the rounds almost), we should have gotten at least a couple solid starters.

+1.

They got a gem in Rogers, but he was a lazy **** and they traded him for pennies on the dollar.

[DTroppens]

That's right. Pettigrew did have a TD reception today. How many games into his Lions' career did he finally get that thing? Wooo, wooo. Throw the party streamers!

I know. I know. I know everyone. It's too early to say crap. But, I'll jump on it since I never liked the pick since day one. So far he's proven me about 80 percent right about how much a wasted draft pick that was. A TE in the first round on a team with 1,000 holes. Just a silly idiotic pick. Oh, that's right. We have a new regieme that knows what they are talking about. They picked a QB and a TE with their first two picks on a team that had the worse defense in NFL history last year, and did little to help the offensive line. Oh, check that, they selected a TE in the first round. I forgot, that was the best of both worlds - a blocker and a game-breaker in the same selection.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by sinister porpoise

Stafford 8/10 91 yards 2TD 0INT 144.2 qb rtg

What is it now SP?

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

That's right. Pettigrew did have a TD reception today. How many games into his Lions' career did he finally get that thing? Wooo, wooo. Throw the party streamers!

I know. I know. I know everyone. It's too early to say crap. But, I'll jump on it since I never liked the pick since day one. So far he's proven me about 80 percent right about how much a wasted draft pick that was. A TE in the first round on a team with 1,000 holes. Just a silly idiotic pick. Oh, that's right. We have a new regieme that knows what they are talking about. They picked a QB and a TE with their first two picks on a team that had the worse defense in NFL history last year, and did little to help the offensive line. Oh, check that, they selected a TE in the first round. I forgot, that was the best of both worlds - a blocker and a game-breaker in the same selection.

Come on DT, he's an awesome blocker! Just look at how much he's helped Kevin Smith!

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Buddha

+1.

They got a gem in Rogers, but he was a lazy **** and they traded him for pennies on the dollar.

The amazing thing is a handful of those players you looked at as a reach immediately after the draft, but people swore up and down that they were great picks. And amazingly, that list only includes two units. Thank God it didn't include WRs and QBs.

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

The amazing thing is a handful of those players you looked at as a reach immediately after the draft, but people swore up and down that they were great picks. And amazingly, that list only includes two units. Thank God it didn't include WRs and QBs.

Or LB, CB, RB, etc.

I mean we have spread around our picks the first couple rounds. Its not that we have failed to address the lines, but it doesnt matter when you pick guys who cant play.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Come on DT, he's an awesome blocker! Just look at how much he's helped Kevin Smith!

Buddha,
If we get one more good blocker, Kevin Smith will run for 1,500 yards and 15 TDs every year.

People believed that garbage - solidify the running game by selecting a tight end to do it. Not a tackle. A tight end. What a bunch of garbage.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Buddha,
If we get one more good blocker, Kevin Smith will run for 1,500 yards and 15 TDs every year.

People believed that garbage - solidify the running game by selecting a tight end to do it. Not a tackle. A tight end. What a bunch of garbage.

yeah especially when Micheal Oher was still available

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Buddha,
If we get one more good blocker, Kevin Smith will run for 1,500 yards and 15 TDs every year.

People believed that garbage - solidify the running game by selecting a tight end to do it. Not a tackle. A tight end. What a bunch of garbage.

While taking a TE might not have been the best move, I dont think he has been bad by any stretch. He was probably our best offensive player today. And I think Delmas was our best defensive player today. Those 2 along with the early play of Levy have me feeling a little bit better about the fact that maybe our talent evaluators are a little better than before. When is the last time we have had a 2nd or 3rd round pick make an early impact? Im going to wait a while before I rate the Stafford pick, because rookie qbs on bad teams are not a good recipe. Hoping he learns from these mistakes by the time this team is actually thinking about competing.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

Or LB, CB, RB, etc.

I mean we have spread around our picks the first couple rounds. Its not that we have failed to address the lines, but it doesnt matter when you pick guys who cant play.

Yeah, you are right. This team really can't get anything right.

But over the next few days we'll get a few posts that say "what did you expect?" or "Things are better and with a couple of more drafts," or the appologists that suggest "The front office is new and were never listened to by Matt Millen and they need their time to make changes and that they get a two-year grace period because the cupboard is so bare and..."

This team has won two games in its last 36 if I've done my memory math game right. And a lot of our front office has their fingerprints all over that. this organization doesn't deserve the fans it has. Man, are they lucky.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Yeah, you are right. This team really can't get anything right.

But over the next few days we'll get a few posts that say "what did you expect?" or "Things are better and with a couple of more drafts," or the appologists that suggest "The front office is new and were never listened to by Matt Millen and they need their time to make changes and that they get a two-year grace period because the cupboard is so bare and..."

This team has won two games in its last 36 if I've done my memory math game right. And a lot of our front office has their fingerprints all over that. this organization doesn't deserve the fans it has. Man, are they lucky.

well stated.... I love football but the NFL will always be second best to me because of having to suffer through the Lions for 30 years now

[Hongbit]

I don't get why they continue to throw the ball to Casey Fitzsimmons. He shouldn't even be in patterns so that he drops the ball countless times on 3rd down.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by Hongbit

I don't get why they continue to throw the ball to Casey Fitzsimmons. He shouldn't even be in patterns so that he drop the ball countless times on 3rd down.

and when he does, hes tackled one yard short of a first down

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

While taking a TE might not have been the best move, I dont think he has been bad by any stretch. He was probably our best offensive player today. And I think Delmas was our best defensive player today. Those 2 along with the early play of Levy have me feeling a little bit better about the fact that maybe our talent evaluators are a little better than before. Im going to wait a while before I rate the Stafford pick, because rookie qbs on bad teams are not a good recipe. Hoping he learns from these mistakes by the time this team is actually thinking about competing.

They better be better and making some sort of impact. They were high draft picks on a team devoid of talent. The fact that it took eight games for that TE to actually catch a TD pass (especially when you consider he had games to be that focal point because of WR injuries) is a little frightening.

Not to say he can't be and won't be a good player. But he was a tight end selected very early in the draft on a team devoid of talent. There were so many other ways of dealing with that position - probably the position I'd list as the 22nd most important on offense or defense - that if he's picked here he either be a superstud. So far he's fallen short of that. And the fact that he may be an upgrade - whippdy do. They could've gotten an upgrade in the sixth round or on the waiver wire that would've done for a year or so.

TE and QB - I can't think of two positions of less pressing need to immediately select when you have so many pressing needs. One can't be effective without those pieces. The other is usually that last piece you get on a good team that helps notch you over the edge. Yet, the Lions made those selections. Tough to figure out.

[Hongbit]

We can go back and forth on our feelings for Matthew Stafford but that last minute pick 6 made alot of new fans for him across the country (especially Vegas).

[Stormin' Norman]

Originally Posted by Buddha

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Turnabout is fair play, right Norman?

This was a bad game. We all knew Stafford was going to have them, but this was his first truly terrible game. It would be foolish to base any decision about Stafford on this game while ignoring his terrific performances against Washington and Chicago.

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Staffords problems from college are even more apparent in the pro's. He's not accurate enough for the NFL, against collegiate d-backs he could get away with that stuff but not in the NFL. His footwork is terrible as well, if he's moving there is little hope the pass will be completed and if it is the receiver will have to make a great catch because the ball is thrown at an odd spot.

Stafford needs a lot of work, when you can't complete passes to Calvin Johnson because of your accuracy, you aren't good enough for the NFL.

The game was lost entirely by Stafford today, I'd like to see somebody get up in his grill, as he has no problems showing up other players on the field. Calvin Johnson was obviously mad at him, but he didn't blow up at him, would like to have seen that. Stafford looked to me like he didn't care too much.

Stafford is the reason the Lions won against the Redskins. Stafford is the reason the Lions held a chance to win this game until the second half. Stafford is the reason the Lions lost today. Oh no, a rookie with a bad game!

Originally Posted by DTroppens

That's right. Pettigrew did have a TD reception today. How many games into his Lions' career did he finally get that thing? Wooo, wooo. Throw the party streamers!

I know. I know. I know everyone. It's too early to say crap. But, I'll jump on it since I never liked the pick since day one. So far he's proven me about 80 percent right about how much a wasted draft pick that was. A TE in the first round on a team with 1,000 holes. Just a silly idiotic pick. Oh, that's right. We have a new regieme that knows what they are talking about. They picked a QB and a TE with their first two picks on a team that had the worse defense in NFL history last year, and did little to help the offensive line. Oh, check that, they selected a TE in the first round. I forgot, that was the best of both worlds - a blocker and a game-breaker in the same selection.

If you are not assured that Michael Oher is a left tackle, you don't make that pick. There are 23 teams that passed on Michael Oher - many of them teams that had needs at left tackle. If more teams believed Michael Oher would be a franchise left tackle, he would have gone earlier. I clearly think that they all were wrong, but it was a mistake others - including the Lions - make. Every team makes a bad call.

Now Brandon Pettigrew was a very sexy talent. There were NFL scouts that believed Pettigrew is the best blocker in the draft. Now if you want to improve your line, if you think Michael Oher is a RT, do you not draft the best blocker who can also serve as a weapon for your new QB?

Pettigrew is going to be great. Obviously the Lions MUST draft a LT to replace Oher after his success - but I believe in this organizations talent evanulation. I think our draft class looks fantastic, and I think they struck gold with Lyndon Murtha (he just got away). If they can do that, and if Pettigrew becomes a Pro Bowler (my expectations) it was a good pick.

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Yeah, you are right. This team really can't get anything right.

But over the next few days we'll get a few posts that say "what did you expect?" or "Things are better and with a couple of more drafts," or the appologists that suggest "The front office is new and were never listened to by Matt Millen and they need their time to make changes and that they get a two-year grace period because the cupboard is so bare and..."

This team has won two games in its last 36 if I've done my memory math game right. And a lot of our front office has their fingerprints all over that. this organization doesn't deserve the fans it has. Man, are they lucky.

I don't know how you can blame a front office for it's promising rookie QB throwing 5 int's. Look at the rest of the draft. Look at the trades they were able to pull off (Williams, Redding/Peterson, O'Connell/Henry (yea, he was going to be cut and isn't great - but he is better than likely any free agent we could have added given 0-16).

Give this front office, this coach, this QB time.

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

They better be better and making some sort of impact. They were high draft picks on a team devoid of talent. The fact that it took eight games for that TE to actually catch a TD pass (especially when you consider he had games to be that focal point because of WR injuries) is a little frightening.

Not to say he can't be and won't be a good player. But he was a tight end selected very early in the draft on a team devoid of talent. There were so many other ways of dealing with that position - probably the position I'd list as the 22nd most important on offense or defense - that if he's picked here he either be a superstud. So far he's fallen short of that. And the fact that he may be an upgrade - whippdy do. They could've gotten an upgrade in the sixth round or on the waiver wire that would've done for a year or so.

I dont know what you expected out of him this season. Rookie years arent always the best for TE. That position seems a year or two to get accustomed to.

look at these TE rookie years
Tony Gonzalez - 33 rec 368 yds 2 td
Jason Witten - 35 rec 347 yds 1 td
Chris Cooley - 37 rec 314 yds 6 td
Antonio Gates - 24 rec 389 yds 2 td
Owen Daniels - 34 rec 352 yds 5 td
Zach Miller - 44 rec 444 yds 3 td

Pettigrew is on pace for 480 yards and 2 Td. I think a lot of the lack of TD production is look at our offense in general, we arent getting red zone opportunities to get him the ball.

TE and QB - I can't think of two positions of less pressing need to immediately select when you have so many pressing needs. One can't be effective without those pieces. The other is usually that last piece you get on a good team that helps notch you over the edge. Yet, the Lions made those selections. Tough to figure out.

and Id argue those 2 positions are the least likely of any position for a rookie to do well at. When you have so many needs, take the guys who need time to develop and then take the guys who develop quicker so then hopefully you get them all to peak at the same time. And you hope to improve every year, when you have the #1 pick and you dont have a QB you almost have to take him.

Whatever, its not worth arguing at this point because the Lions will screw it up no matter which route they take.

[Hongbit]

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

I don't know how you can blame a front office for it's promising rookie QB throwing 5 int's. Look at the rest of the draft. Look at the trades they were able to pull off (Williams, Redding/Peterson, O'Connell/Henry (yea, he was going to be cut and isn't great - but he is better than likely any free agent we could have added given 0-16).

Give this front office, this coach, this QB time.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

This was a bad game. We all knew Stafford was going to have them, but this was his first truly terrible game. It would be foolish to base any decision about Stafford on this game while ignoring his terrific performances against Washington and Chicago.

Your definition of "terrific" must be different than mine.

I'm all for realizing that Stafford is a rookie and is going to have bad games, but damn Norman, the guy ties his shoes and you tell us that no one - NO ONE - has EVER made a bunny loop like that. A brilliant example of knot tieing this town has never seen! His shoes may NEVER come untied again!

Stafford is the reason the Lions won against the Redskins. Stafford is the reason the Lions held a chance to win this game until the second half. Stafford is the reason the Lions lost today. Oh no, a rookie with a bad game!

There's no difference between people blaming Stafford for this loss and saying he's obviously bad and you crediting him for the Redskins win and saying he's obviously good.

If you are not assured that Michael Oher is a left tackle, you don't make that pick. There are 23 teams that passed on Michael Oher - many of them teams that had needs at left tackle. If more teams believed Michael Oher would be a franchise left tackle, he would have gone earlier. I clearly think that they all were wrong, but it was a mistake others - including the Lions - make. Every team makes a bad call.

Baby steps to admitting that the Lions aren't very good at talent evaluation.

Now Brandon Pettigrew was a very sexy talent. There were NFL scouts that believed Pettigrew is the best blocker in the draft. Now if you want to improve your line, if you think Michael Oher is a RT, do you not draft the best blocker who can also serve as a weapon for your new QB?

No, you realize that Oher is really good and you need a left tackle.

Pettigrew will probably be fine, but Oher looks like the player they should have picked at this point. It's still early though.

Pettigrew is going to be great. Obviously the Lions MUST draft a LT to replace Oher after his success - but I believe in this organizations talent evanulation. I think our draft class looks fantastic, and I think they struck gold with Lyndon Murtha (he just got away). If they can do that, and if Pettigrew becomes a Pro Bowler (my expectations) it was a good pick.

You think they struck gold with a seventh round pick who couldn't make the team on a squad with one of the worst offensive lines in the league? Really?

I don't know how you can blame a front office for it's promising rookie QB throwing 5 int's. Look at the rest of the draft. Look at the trades they were able to pull off (Williams, Redding/Peterson, O'Connell/Henry (yea, he was going to be cut and isn't great - but he is better than likely any free agent we could have added given 0-16).

Give this front office, this coach, this QB time.

You're the same guy who said Matt Millen left this team with a solid foundation on which to build a team! if that's true, then why does this front office need ANY time to make them into AT LEAST a five or six win team? Any NFL team with a solid foundation ought to be at or near .500.

Your tendency to overrate every Lion player is coming back to haunt your logic.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

This was a bad game. We all knew Stafford was going to have them, but this was his first truly terrible game. It would be foolish to base any decision about Stafford on this game while ignoring his terrific performances against Washington and Chicago.



Stafford is the reason the Lions won against the Redskins. Stafford is the reason the Lions held a chance to win this game until the second half. Stafford is the reason the Lions lost today. Oh no, a rookie with a bad game.

His first truly bad game? You must've missed last week's game at Ford Field. What about against the Saints? He's a rookie. You are right. He'll have bad games. That's a given. But to suggest this was his first truly terrible game makes me wonder what you think qualifies as a reasonable QB performance.

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

If you are not assured that Michael Oher is a left tackle, you don't make that pick. There are 23 teams that passed on Michael Oher - many of them teams that had needs at left tackle. If more teams believed Michael Oher would be a franchise left tackle, he would have gone earlier. I clearly think that they all were wrong, but it was a mistake others - including the Lions - make. Every team makes a bad call.

Now Brandon Pettigrew was a very sexy talent. There were NFL scouts that believed Pettigrew is the best blocker in the draft. Now if you want to improve your line, if you think Michael Oher is a RT, do you not draft the best blocker who can also serve as a weapon for your new QB?

Pettigrew is going to be great. Obviously the Lions MUST draft a LT to replace Oher after his success - but I believe in this organizations talent evanulation. I think our draft class looks fantastic, and I think they struck gold with Lyndon Murtha (he just got away). If they can do that, and if Pettigrew becomes a Pro Bowler (my expectations) it was a good pick.

Okay, you have tackle covered. What about picking ANY POSITION on defense with those picks. I would've rather had a DLineman, a corner, a linebacker and a safety before selecting a QB or a TE with those two early picks. I never mentioned a single player. Apparently you have some insecurities about the Lions not selecting Oher.

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

I don't know how you can blame a front office for it's promising rookie QB throwing 5 int's. Look at the rest of the draft. Look at the trades they were able to pull off (Williams, Redding/Peterson, O'Connell/Henry (yea, he was going to be cut and isn't great - but he is better than likely any free agent we could have added given 0-16).

Give this front office, this coach, this QB time.

Read my posts. I blame them for slecting a QB at a time that it made about as much sense as it does for the Detroit Tigers to draft a QB. This team isn't in any position to draft a QB high and have that QB succeed. Therefore I can blame the front office for a five-pick game. It's not in any position to be looking for that "final piece" that a TE can be.

[mtutiger]

I've been positive on Stafford, but this game was an obvious setback in my view of him. He needs to rebound next week. I don't care if they win, this season is a loss, but at some point, he's got to learn to own up to adversity.

[Enor]

Ouch. that game was brutal. Seriously setback my view on Stafford. I hope he can recover, cuz that game hurt almost as bad as the St. Louis game.

[DennisDubay]

I turned the game off after the first qt. Good game and we won.

[Ingefanclub]

I don't understand the offsides penalty on Avril on the 4th and 1 late in the game. It had no bearing on the outcome but I could not make sense of the call. Who was the penalty on?

The ref said Detroit was in the neutral zone which led to the offensive player moving.....so I guess the offensive player was okay as long as he got back to his spot...then another Lion must have made contact??? I am unsure and would like an explanation by someone who knows.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

I dont know what you expected out of him this season. Rookie years arent always the best for TE. That position seems a year or two to get accustomed to.

look at these TE rookie years
Tony Gonzalez - 33 rec 368 yds 2 td
Jason Witten - 35 rec 347 yds 1 td
Chris Cooley - 37 rec 314 yds 6 td
Antonio Gates - 24 rec 389 yds 2 td
Owen Daniels - 34 rec 352 yds 5 td
Zach Miller - 44 rec 444 yds 3 td

Pettigrew is on pace for 480 yards and 2 Td. I think a lot of the lack of TD production is look at our offense in general, we arent getting red zone opportunities to get him the ball.



and Id argue those 2 positions are the least likely of any position for a rookie to do well at. When you have so many needs, take the guys who need time to develop and then take the guys who develop quicker so then hopefully you get them all to peak at the same time. And you hope to improve every year, when you have the #1 pick and you dont have a QB you almost have to take him.

Whatever, its not worth arguing at this point because the Lions will screw it up no matter which route they take.

I think you supported my case quite a bit with this post. The statistical numbers really don't matter to me. Chances were he wasn't going to be anything more than a slightly above average TE. But even if he became that, it would've had little impact on this team. TEs aren't the most pressing need on a team devoid of talent all over the place. Surely, there were more pressing needs that could've been addressed with that selection.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Ingefanclub

I don't understand the offsides penalty on Avril on the 4th and 1 late in the game. It had no bearing on the outcome but I could not make sense of the call. Who was the penalty on?

The ref said Detroit was in the neutral zone which led to the offensive player moving.....so I guess the offensive player was okay as long as he got back to his spot...then another Lion must have made contact??? I am unsure and would like an explanation by someone who knows.

I thought it was a neutral zone infraction right away and figured thatw as going to be the call. If a defensive lineman jumps and then the offensive lineman does, it's a neutral zone infraction. It seems like yesterday, but the rule is probably 10 years old now. Once the offensive player moves, which used to be a false start, the play is called dead and neutral zone is called. If the offensive lineman didn't move, it wouldn't have been called and the penalty wouldn't have existed as long as the defender returns before the snap. I'm not sure why the rule was changed.

[Hongbit]

A couple thoughts from another Lions loss:

• Stafford completed more passes to the Seahawks secondary than he did the Lions WR corps. The BJ TD was the only long pass he threw that wasn't picked. Only 4 of 18 completions to WR. Bad stuff, although I'd guess Linehan has to share some portion of the blame.
  
  
• More stupid penalties that cost them in the red zone. Even if they had talent you can't constantly make stupid mistakes expect to win. Raiola with a drive killer, a dumb facemask on Buchanon, and of course Cohen's goal line idiocy. On this same subject the call against James on Houshmanzadeh in the 3rd was awful. The ref in position didn't throw his flag and did nothing when the guy 15 yards behind the play did.
  
  
• Anyone remember which member of the secondary missed a crucial tackle on a Justin Forsett swing pass at the end of the half. He whiffed on a 1 on 1 play on 3rd and 10 in Seattle territory. If the Lions make that play the punting comes on and Seattle doesn't get 3 more before the half.
  
  
• Stan Kwan sucks

[Sports_Freak]

Just a couple of points and questions;

First of all, I don't mind Stafford making rookie mistakes. I would have been surprised if he didn't make any rookie mistakes. But, I want to see him learn from these mistakes. And it's so hard to tell if he is learning because of the lack of talent around him. But if he makes the same mistakes over and over, I think it may not be something he can overcome. I never felt the Lions were just a great QB from having a great team. Just the opposite, for the last several years, I feel even the best QB in the league would not have even helped the Lions be close to a .500 team.

What concerns me is the accuracy of Stafford's throws. Missing wide open receivers while under little pressure is inexcusable. Is this something that can be learned? Being more accurate? I guess this is what worries me the most and if it will ruin his confidence. I always had the opinion he should have sat and learned this year while the Lions built up some talent for him to work with.

[PuNk42AE]

The other thing to remember from Stafford is that we're playing like crap and losing all over in the games so he has to "press" to try and make something happen and force things. Where as if most games were tied or the Lions in the lead it would be an easier time to make things happen. As always it just comes down to the lack of talent on the team.

[jonjd]

Originally Posted by PuNk42AE

The other thing to remember from Stafford is that we're playing like crap and losing all over in the games so he has to "press" to try and make something happen and force things. Where as if most games were tied or the Lions in the lead it would be an easier time to make things happen. As always it just comes down to the lack of talent on the team.

He had a 17-0 lead when he threw his 1st INT and threw his 2nd while we were still up by a decent amount. I don't buy it. There was no pressing, or forcing the issue in this instance.

[mtutiger]

For what it's worth, the last interception looks like a bad route by CJ... whether it was Stafford or CJ is irrelevant, that still falls on the QB.