2011 US Soccer thread

[IdahoBert]

Make that 3-0 at 41:00. Tim Howard is not very happy. Three goals in 13 minutes for Spain.

[Dirk Diggler]

Has anyone heard how ticket sales are going for the Gold Cup? I just bought 2 for the US v Panama game here in Tampa and pretty much had my pick of seats from every area. Just wondered if it's looking empty for the others.

[Buddha]

Now can we all understand 1) how bad the US defense is; and 2) how much of a fluke that win over Spain was before the world cup?

[FloridaTigers]

As if people didn't know that before?

[Johnny Mac]

As if people didn't know that before?

Exactly, Im not a super soccer fan or anything....but there seems to be fluke games in soccer all the time.

[Blue Square Thing]

Exactly, Im not a super soccer fan or anything....but there seems to be fluke games in soccer all the time.

I'm not convinced that's much more likely than any other sport really - dominant baseball teams will lose a much higher percentage of games than dominant football teams (probably...).

It probable shows how good Spain are tbh - the US rested, what, three of it's most effective players? Spain can do that and still have a team good enough to beat just about anybody; you can't.

[DTroppens]

Not that playing the game as a "real" international friendly would change anything, but the US treated this game as the second-hand exhibition I thought they would. It was too close to the Gold Cup opener to do anything besides that.

[DTroppens]

It probable shows how good Spain are tbh - the US rested, what, three of it's most effective players? Spain can do that and still have a team good enough to beat just about anybody; you can't.

Simple as this, if you were a field player and you played the entire game today, it means you weren't ever slated to start or come close to playing 90 minutes on Tuesday. No one is going to battle it out by saying the US can come even close to matching Spain's depth. Well, that's life as a US fan right now.

[DTroppens]

Now can we all understand 1) how bad the US defense is; and 2) how much of a fluke that win over Spain was before the world cup?

First off, I don't think anyone here thinks the US has anything but a shoddy defense. I think that conversation has been beaten up around here over the last four years pretty good. This team's tendency to allow early-game goals over the last about three years has been well documented. That tendency doesn't occur unless you have defensive issues.

The Confederation Cup victory against Spain being a fluke? If you want to call it that, that's fine. The US will always be the underdogs against Spain in any contest during the near future. But they won that game 2-0. I will call it an upset. I won't call it a fluke.

[Buddha]

First off, I don't think anyone here thinks the US has anything but a shoddy defense. I think that conversation has been beaten up around here over the last four years pretty good. This team's tendency to allow early-game goals over the last about three years has been well documented. That tendency doesn't occur unless you have defensive issues.

The Confederation Cup victory against Spain being a fluke? If you want to call it that, that's fine. The US will always be the underdogs against Spain in any contest during the near future. But they won that game 2-0. I will call it an upset. I won't call it a fluke.

When the world champs-to-be are beaten (the only time they were beaten in, like, 2 years) by a bunch of second division players, it's a fluke.

Spain's B-team just took the US' B+ team to the cleaners.

Whatever. I'm more worried that the US doesn't seem to be producing any talent lately. What happens when Donovan retires? He's not young anymore. None of the "next big things" have come close to turning into anything.

[azzurri]

When the world champs-to-be are beaten (the only time they were beaten in, like, 2 years) by a bunch of second division players, it's a fluke.

Spain's B-team just took the US' B+ team to the cleaners.

I wouldn't say the US had their B+ team, more like their D- team. Donovan and Bocanegra did not play. Clint Dempsey, Michael Bradley, and Steve Cherundolo come on as second half substitutes after the game was already a rout. Those are the best players on the team.

The 2-0 US win in 2009 was no fluke...it was definitely an upset. But, the US was playing well at the time and took a 2-0 lead in the next game against Brazil before finally losing 3-2. The US happened to get on a roll in that tourney.

[Buddha]

I wouldn't say the US had their B+ team, more like their D- team. Donovan and Bocanegra did not play. Clint Dempsey, Michael Bradley, and Steve Cherundolo come on as second half substitutes after the game was already a rout. Those are the best players on the team.

The 2-0 US win in 2009 was no fluke...it was definitely an upset. But, the US was playing well at the time and took a 2-0 lead in the next game against Brazil before finally losing 3-2. The US happened to get on a roll in that tourney.

The D- you saw was the US talent level, not the team choice.

What's the difference between a fluke and an upset? A fluke is when a team that has no business beating another team wins a game that 9 times out of 10 they would lose. That's Spain-US to me. Spain didn't take the game seriously and, when they did, they had all the possession and a bunch of missed shots. It was a one off, a fluke, it's not happening again.

Bocanegra is a terrible defender. The fact that he didn't play isn't a bad thing. Look people, the US defense is ABYSMAL. Jonathan Spector played. The man who was the worst player in the EPL this year is a regular on the USMNT. Freddy Second Division Turkey Adu is back in the team.

Until the next generation starts developing, the US is going to struggle. They'll always have heart and guts and won't quit, which will get them some points in games they wouldn't usually stand a chance to win, but talent wise they are trending down, not up.

[DTroppens]

No downers today. The GOLD CUP STARTS TOMORROW!!!

Let's kick some Canadian butt!!!

12:30 p.m. - meeting with some soccer fans for brats/burgers.
aprox 2 p.m. - driving down to Ford Field.
Aprox 3:15 p.m. - tailgating with one of the soccer supporter's organization.
6 p.m.? - Haven't figured out if I am going to go to the first game. But if I do, I'll miss walking in with Sam's Army.
8 p.m. - Opening kick.
8:15 p.m. - US allows an early goal and quiets down the US fans.
8:44 p.m. - US ties it up late in the first half.
9:15 until end of game - US scores two more and wins the game 3-1. We go home happy. And me, being the only non-drinker in the entire place, will be the designated driver for about 2,000 people.

[dadair6]

I saw some photos of today's practice and I might be a little angry tomorrow. We have seats at midfield front row. The benches are on the field and will be covered by the standard bubbles. I paid $100 each face value for the tickets and if I have to watch the game through the bubbles I'm going to be extremely angry.

Last year I had Frozen Four tickets, also at Ford Field, a few rows behind the benches. The geniuses there didn't think about putting the seats on risers so once the players stood, as most college teams do, we couldn't see anything but the backs of the players on the bench. It's ridiculous that the most expensive seats are obstructed. If my seats tomorrow are, in fact, obstructed it will be last event I ever attend at Ford Field.

[jonjd]

Awful match. Glad I didn't go. The pitch is beyond terrible at FF.

Weak Jozy strike and weaker effort by Hirschfeld has US ahead 1-0. Very savable.

Make that 2-0. Another awful effort from Canadian defenders, but nice piece of work from Dempsey to finish.

[DTroppens]

Awful match. Glad I didn't go. The pitch is beyond terrible at FF.

Weak Jozy strike and weaker effort by Hirschfeld has US ahead 1-0. Very savable.

Make that 2-0. Another awful effort from Canadian defenders, but nice piece of work from Dempsey to finish.

I don't know. I had a blast at the game. Altidore's strike, simply, should've been saved. It was like watching the England match all over again. But Dempsey's goal was a thing of beauty. The US was able to possess the ball relatively easily against Canada and was clearly the better team. That said, Canada had three chances on two plays to at least score one goal, or maybe score two goals. Those two chances (two on the same scoring chance) were the best non-scoring attempts of the season. And, honestly, this could've easily been a 1-1 verdict.

Sitting in the supporter's section just can't be beat. I was close enough that when the flags or signs were displayed I was part of the group working with the sign. And another huge positive was being part of the US march toward the stadium. We closed traffic ourselves and instead of people being upset in their cars, people seemed to enjoy it. We took a seriously roundabout way to get into the stadium, but it was well worth it. It's something I suggest any US fan do if they go to a game. Even road contests, there will be the march to the stadium.

I didn't think the pitch looked too bad. There were a couple of times people slipped, but I didn't see chunks of grass flying and I didn't see sod "folding" up or anything.

We are starting to see some new faces, and a couple were on defense. I can see this is going to be a very tough group to evaluate players. We'll never see the US possess the ball like they did against Canada (and proabably will in the next two games) against a quality opponent. The defense seemingly kept its shape for the most part, but that said, Canada had the best scoring chances of the attempts that didn't score. And the defense cleared the ball reasonably well, even through the possession game. From what I saw, the other two teams in this pool will be no challenge. Even playing against each other (and seeing to mediocre teams playing each other usually makes it eaisier to hide their deficiencies because the two teams are even) you could tell this wasn't US-Mexico, or even US-Canada caliber-type match. The US should look good because the competition is going to be underwhelming.

But, hey, it's US soccer in a tournament setting for the next month. And, as much as I can, I am going to enjoy it.

Panama-Guadeloupe
We saw the last 30 minutes of the game. Panama led 3-0 at the time, but allowed Guadeloupe to score two goals in that time with a good chance of earning the draw during the final 12 or so minutes of the game despite being a player short during the entire time we were watching the game.

[DTroppens]

My initial group of friends at the US soccer game, just before we enter Ford Field and just after the march. For those that don't know, I'm the one with the Lions cap on.

[DTroppens]

And that's why I don't attach pictures in the forum.

[dadair6]

My wife and I had a good time. We were directly behind the Guadalupe/Canada subs. The field help up pretty well from what I could tell, the only thing I noticed is that it had a wet look, like my yard did a couple days after the massive rains we had a couple weeks ago. I don't know if they watered it while indoors and it didn't have time to soak in or evaporate, but that could have contributed to the slipping.

Last night was one of those game where one team knows they're going to win, the urgency wasn't there, but they did enough to win. Howard made the two incredible saves in the second at our end. The first one from distance was on a direct line from us to the goal. When it was struck it looked like a sure goal curving in toward the far post. It was a great save by Howard.

We also arrived about the 60th minute of the Panama/Guadalupe game, just as Guadalupe scored their first.

[dadair6]

They're not the best pics, they were taken with my cell camera.

[DTroppens]

I was a little upset that there weren't a few more people there, especially for Canada. They said something like 28,000, but I don't think there were that many people there. I'm guessing it was closer to 25,000. If it came to 30,000, I would've been happy.

I may have had a distorted view as well because I did enter with the army. We got through the ticket lines pretty quickly, so that tells me there weren't many people there before we started heading to the doors. If I was just normally walking in I may have realized that there wouldn't be a ton of people inside once I got in.

I can't imagine there being great crowds for some of these games. Mexico will draw. The US will draw, but what about the games not involving the US or Mexico? I bet some of these games aren't even drawing 2,000 fans.

[DTroppens]

They're not the best pics, they were taken with my cell camera.

They are better than the one I linked.

I guess when you think about the lower deck, they were reasonably filled except for the goal side opposite of the US fans. Honestly, I really thought there'd be more Canadian fans. If another 2,000 Canadians show up, that would've filled the lower bowl a bit better.

It also helped that no one was there for the first game.

[DTroppens]

I'm sure this is true of all international teams, but I do appreciate the US team always sticking back and applauding the fans after the game. You do get the feeling you can run into one of the players after the game and they'll appreciate that you came to the game.

Somone threw an olde English D hat to Donovan after the game, and he actually put it on for about five seconds.

[azzurri]

I was a little upset that there weren't a few more people there, especially for Canada. They said something like 28,000, but I don't think there were that many people there. I'm guessing it was closer to 25,000. If it came to 30,000, I would've been happy.

I was disappointed with the crowd size, too...hoping for 30,000+

On the other hand, it was the largest crowd for a USA first round Gold Cup game since 2003, so that can't be dismissed. The powers that be should've only sold lower bowl and club level seats...it would've looked much better on TV to have fans packed together.

[DTroppens]

I was disappointed with the crowd size, too...hoping for 30,000+

On the other hand, it was the largest crowd for a USA first round Gold Cup game since 2003, so that can't be dismissed. The powers that be should've only sold lower bowl and club level seats...it would've looked much better on TV to have fans packed together.

I didn't know it was that good compared to past Gold Cups. Of course, the game was in Detroit and against Canada. I was really shocked not to see more Canadians at the game. I know there were a few spattered among the US fans as well, but minus the place across Ford Field (sorry I forget the place's name right off hand), we didn't see any Canadians walking in. And we didn't see any in the concourse. I expected a little healthy banter between the fans getting to their seats, but there weren't any Canadians to create it.

[T.O. Tiger Fan]

I didn't know it was that good compared to past Gold Cups. Of course, the game was in Detroit and against Canada. I was really shocked not to see more Canadians at the game. I know there were a few spattered among the US fans as well, but minus the place across Ford Field (sorry I forget the place's name right off hand), we didn't see any Canadians walking in. And we didn't see any in the concourse. I expected a little healthy banter between the fans getting to their seats, but there weren't any Canadians to create it.

Unfortunately the Canadian national team receives little support here - fan wise and media wise. A home friendly vs. Ecuador last week drew only 14,300 in Toronto, which is arguably the most multiculticural city in the world and should be able to support national games. The problem is many 1st and 2nd generation Canadians support their homeland countries vs. supporting Canada, so it's not surprising that few Canadian fans travelled to Ford Field.

[DTroppens]

Unfortunately the Canadian national team receives little support here - fan wise and media wise. A home friendly vs. Ecuador last week drew only 14,300 in Toronto, which is arguably the most multiculticural city in the world and should be able to support national games. The problem is many 1st and 2nd generation Canadians support their homeland countries vs. supporting Canada, so it's not surprising that few Canadian fans travelled to Ford Field.

We have that same problem in the U.S. I can understand if you made the trip to the US and support your original country, but once you start getting to second generation, that gets dicey in my book. Basically, if their native country is better, they become bandwagon fans for that country.

[Dirk Diggler]

Since there isn't a Gold Cup thread, I figured this might be a good place for this since the US should match up with Mexico. 5 players suspended........

Positive tests oust five Mexicans soccer players from Gold Cup - ESPN

[Shelton]

We have that same problem in the U.S. I can understand if you made the trip to the US and support your original country, but once you start getting to second generation, that gets dicey in my book. Basically, if their native country is better, they become bandwagon fans for that country.

I find this silly.

I no longer live in Detroit, but there is no way in hell my kids will become a fan of any other city's teams. They will be Tigers, Red Wings, Lions, Pistons, and Detroit City (future MLS team) fans. They will fervently support these teams. If they attempt to stray or fall prey to local peer pressure, they will find themselves out on the street. They will eat, breathe, and sleep Detroit sports. They will then provide the same sound guidance to my grandchildren, and the cycle will continue. This is not negotiable.

This is also how recent immigrants feel about their home country's football team.

[DTroppens]

I find this silly.

I no longer live in Detroit, but there is no way in hell my kids will become a fan of any other city's teams. They will be Tigers, Red Wings, Lions, Pistons, and Detroit City (future MLS team) fans. They will fervently support these teams. If they attempt to stray or fall prey to local peer pressure, they will find themselves out on the street. They will eat, breathe, and sleep Detroit sports. They will then provide the same sound guidance to my grandchildren, and the cycle will continue. This is not negotiable.

This is also how recent immigrants feel about their home country's football team.

That's fine if that's your opinion. But to me, if you move to another country to find a better life, do just that and are now voting for people in power as a second- or third-generation citizen, I just don't see how your loyalities would still be for some "homeland" that you were never called your own personal home.

My grandparents on both sides came from Germany and Poland. I guess those are my second teams, if I have second teams. But there's no way I'd be as passionate for those teams vs. the team of the country I've lived in all my life.

And, I seriously doubt that most of those second- and third-generation fans would be fans if the US was one of the top four teams in the world and better than those that we traditionally see people embracing as "their" team. It's "their" team because they are winners. You used the Tigers an example. I'll use the Wings. No one in Detroit cared about the Wings during most of my childhood. They couldn't give away tickets. Why? They sucked. There weren't thousands of Wings fans in Los Angeles, Boston or New York doing Wings chants when Greg Jolly was on the team. You win 20 years and suddenly they are hot in Detroit and with ex-Detroiters that never watched a game when they lived in Detroit. People love winners. It's as simple as that. And that's why people remain "loyal" to countries they've never set a foot in.

Why weren't there any Canadian fans the other night? Because no one cares - they weren't in the World Cup. When was the last time they were in the World Cup? If they went to the World Cup and went to the semis, there would've been at least 15,000 Canadians at that game and some people that live in the US cheering on their Canadian heritage. For sports, I don't care if it is about clubs, colleges or countries, winning creates fan followings - not heritage, at least not when one has never lived within that community.

[Dirk Diggler]

That's fine if that's your opinion. But to me, if you move to another country to find a better life, do just that and are now voting for people in power as a second- or third-generation citizen, I just don't see how your loyalities would still be for some "homeland" that you were never called your own personal home.

My grandparents on both sides came from Germany and Poland. I guess those are my second teams, if I have second teams. But there's no way I'd be as passionate for those teams vs. the team of the country I've lived in all my life.


.

Unfortunately, thats not the way it works.

Just curious, did you grow up around people from Germany and Poland? Were you raised through German and Polish culture, around people who rooted for germany and Poland? My guess is no and IMO, that's the difference.

I have many friends of Mexican heritage that were born and raised here, sure they root for the US, but they are huge Mexico fans and will root for Mexico against the US every time, even though we have been more successful of late. Why, because they were raised rooting for Mexico. I work with a guy from Haiti, well his parents are from Haiti. We just talked today about the Gold Cup, he roots for them through and through even though they are aweful, so I don't think it has anything to do with rooting for winners, it has to do with your culture and what you were raised with.

If some kid is born to American parents from Detroit that happen to live in Germany, do you think that kid is going to root for Germany when his parents raise him chearing on the US? Should he be required to root for Germany, because he hasn't lived in the US? When I go to the game on Saturday, I can guarantee there will be plenty of "Americans" that haven't lived in Panama rooting for Panama and it's not because they like winners. A lot of people remain very loyal to the cultures in which they were raised, not necessarily where they lived.

[DTroppens]

Apparently some people don't tick the way I do. Either way, it makes little sense to me.

There's nothing wrong with looking back at your heritage, but it seems to me embracing where you are now probably should take precedent.

All that said, I'm still convinced that if Germany sucked rocks for the last 30 years in soccer, and the US was knocking on the door of winning World Cups, German fans in the US would consider themselves more US fans than German fans.

I didn't see a ton of my Polish side of the family facebooking Poland's 2-1 win against Argentina last weekend. I watched it, pulled for Poland, but at the same time didn't feel like I was really watching "my" team. I knew I was going to see "my" team on Tuesday at Ford Field.

[Shelton]

Well, tropp, this is obviously a discussion where you have dug in your heels, so I don't expect to convince you otherwise.

I think that you are significantly underestimating the effect of culture in this case. And even if culture is not important, you root for team's you were raised with. If your parents are Mexican and raised to support them, you aren't going to just up and change because you live in 'murrica.

It's a soccer team. It's not like they are enlisting in the army and then shooting their platoon mates.

[DTroppens]

It's a soccer team. It's not like they are enlisting in the army and then shooting their platoon mates.

Gee, that's kind of extreme.


I get what you are getting at, and I think that for sure there are people that is the case. I also think there are a lot of 20-year olds that watched the World Cup last year, pulling for another nation that wouldn't have done so if their native country wasn't very strong in soccer the last 20 years and the US was knocking on the door of a World Cup. People want to associate with a winner.

[DTroppens]

US trailing Panama 2-0 in the first half. Nope, I'm not joking.

[Buddha]

I find this silly.

I no longer live in Detroit, but there is no way in hell my kids will become a fan of any other city's teams. They will be Tigers, Red Wings, Lions, Pistons, and Detroit City (future MLS team) fans. They will fervently support these teams. If they attempt to stray or fall prey to local peer pressure, they will find themselves out on the street. They will eat, breathe, and sleep Detroit sports. They will then provide the same sound guidance to my grandchildren, and the cycle will continue. This is not negotiable.

This is also how recent immigrants feel about their home country's football team.

Good luck with that. Just make sure your baby roots for the Cubs and not the White Sox. That's the best you can hope for.

[Buddha]

So if Panama beat the US, is it a fluke or an upset?

[DTroppens]

So if Panama beat the US, is it a fluke or an upset?

Upset.

If we're talking the US' B or C team vs. an A team - more or less the US taking it as an exhibition, you call it a fluke. This is the US at home wanting to win this tournament with a legit lineup. Shots were reasonable. The US gets whistled for a legit PK. And the US defense gets busted early in a game once again.

This isn't Argentina playing nobody vs. Poland. This was a legit A v A matchup. You deserve your results.

Weaker teams beat better teams all the time in a lot of sports. That doesn't make it a fluke. If the US lost to Panama, they flat out deserve it, and Panama deserves its victory.

[Dirk Diggler]

That was really really bad soccer. Poor passes, no finishing and just plain boring play with little creativity. There were tossed around like kids during the first half and didn't seem to handle the physical play very well. There was some sketchy calls and some bad luck to go with the poor play, but Panama deserved the victory with some nice counterattacks. Very frustrating to be at this one. It was about the same size crowd as the Canada game, I think they announced it at 27k, but they closed the top tier which filled it in. Probably about 2-3k Panama fans, which made for a great atmosphere of back and forth chanting. I'm ready for a new coach, with a new style though. One that preferably has Altidore on the bench.

[FloridaTigers]

Good luck with that. We're stuck with Bradley for quite a while.